Started as schools survey.............

[admin]

I am sure that many of you have received the mailing that I did, from the schools, which did include a survey looking for feedback.

What ever your views are, what ever your concerns are, please take the time to fill it out and send it in.

[wyane]

Read "Third Time's a Charm", this survey is a wolf in sheep's clothing designed to manipulate public opinion, and divert attention from the real cause of school overcrowding and the failing NCLB scoring.

Its easy to ask for more money to address over crowding, whats not easy is to address the root cause of the overcrowding, the lack of proof of residency verification.

What your not told in the survey is the fact that the schoolbaord has approached the NJ Dept of Ed, and overturned your dec 05 and april 06 "NO" votes, and now your taxs will be raised. Not very democratic is it, yet here is another example of a governing body with officials elected unopposed.

It would be nice if the school board was completely forthcoming with their budget and spending goals, and explain the true cost and purpose of the Survey.

If you have children attending Boro Schools or not, I would encourage voters to go to schoolbord meetings, to learn more about what they do with your money, why, and tell them what you think!

A failed school district is unacceptable, and kills the property value of the home you worked hard to invest in!

[richardkelsey]

wyane said:

Read "Third Time's a Charm", this survey is a wolf in sheep's clothing designed to manipulate public opinion, and divert attention from the real cause of school overcrowding and the failing NCLB scoring.

Its easy to ask for more money to address over crowding, whats not easy is to address the root cause of the overcrowding, the lack of proof of residency verification.

What your not told in the survey is the fact that the schoolbaord has approached the NJ Dept of Ed, and overturned your dec 05 and april 06 "NO" votes, and now your taxs will be raised. Not very democratic is it, yet here is another example of a governing body with officials elected unopposed.

It would be nice if the school board was completely forthcoming with their budget and spending goals, and explain the true cost and purpose of the Survey.

If you have children attending Boro Schools or not, I would encourage voters to go to schoolbord meetings, to learn more about what they do with your money, why, and tell them what you think!

A failed school district is unacceptable, and kills the property value of the home you worked hard to invest in!

I really like this guy!

Recently -- the Borough made a calculated decision to settle a suit filed against it's governing body -- and I believe the members as individuals. The two principle reasons for settling were:

1. Skyrocketing legal bills, and

2. The Illegals gained nothing -- they do not have a muster zone.

Both of these reasons are demonstrably false.

First -- the Borough agreed to essentially take no steps, make no effort, and use no means, to interfere with the on-going felonious activity of contractors and outsiders knowingly helping illegal aliens to find employment. The muster zone is now every corner in town.

Second -- I don't know what the Borough legal bill was to date -- but most of the work was done by an insurance company counsel so --- it could not have been much. In addition, you get what you pay for. Let's assume that the Borough had been billed $300,000 in defending this litigation. Last year alone, the Borough spent more than 3,000,000 educating the children of illegal immigrants and children who are themselves, there illegally. They will pay that bill every year in the form of per-pupil rates of education. Moreover, building new or expanding existing facilities are capital costs directly associated with the invasion. Those costs must also go into the equation. The Borough also pays more for police, fire, public safety, code-enforcement, etc. resulting from the invasion.

Now -- as Wayne here astutely points out -- those are not the only costs. How about the cost to property values? Freehold has suffered horribly from the invasion, and the fact that the market has already factored that cost into your property values. That is why values there are significantly lower than in other parts of the county. In addition, those values will sink first, and sink farther than other towns. This not only adversely impacts the homeowners and taxpayers, but the Borough loses very valuable tax money because its values are not what it they could be. (Marc, very adroitly, identified the need for the Borough to have incentives and to encourage a new renaissance of the Borough. ) How that will be accomplished by settling the suit is unknown to me. (The short term benefit, if any, of no more bad press, is far outweighed by the long term detriment of being a work camp for illegal foreign nationals. That fact can't be hidden from the market.)

Thus, the $300,000 or so in legal fees is but a drop in the buck compared to the massive losses sustained, and to be sustained going forward.

I suspect the perception of the action will lead to increased illegal activity, and more importantly, lead to additional flight from the Borough of its existing homeowners. Look for a rise in homes on the Market -- cause an even greater drop in property values.

The Borough has been ill-advised, in my opinion, on this settlement. Not only could the Borough afford to continue this litigation, and start an offensive of its own, it could not afford to pull the plug as it has.

[Marc LeVine]

Rich:

I will not accept that our situation is as bleak as you wish to paint it. Other cities and towns, in far worse shape than Freehold Borough, have been turned around and now prosper. Granted, the changes do not come overnight and take some very hard work. Nothing worthwhile is ever easy. Defeatest attitudes are counterproductive to what we must do.

People once said that our drug and crime infested Mechanic Street could never be rehabilitated. John Rosseel and I pushed the issue with Council and it was done.

This is only one example of many that great things can be accomplished. From today's hole in the ground will rise tomorrow's Freedom Tower. No one could imagine this on September 12, 2001, the day after the disaster. But someday, we too, will take the new building for granted as if it was always in that place.

I remember reading, some time ago, that Rutgers Football was also done and would soon be relegated to Division 1-AA status, or even lower. It was said, almost as gospel, that they could never get the better NJ players to stay home -- done deal -- sell the goalposts and fire the water-boy!

Then, Robert Mulcahy arrived from the Meadowlands Sports Authority with a bright outlook. After a few early hiring mistakes, he brought in Coach Schiano from Miami U and soon... they were on their way. Last week, 48,000 screaming fans watched the former #368 best team in America beat #3 ranked Louisville and begin to talk of BCS Bowl Championship games. ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE.

Actually, FB hasn't sunk so low to begin with - my little 1500 square foot house in the Borough was just appraised at $368,000. I only paid $55K for it back in 1981.

Please, let's all join together and as Coach Schiano at Rutgers tells his players - LET'S KEEP CHOPPING. There are some things we must do and many changes we will make to improve things around here - trust me. Or, at least, give us the benefit of the doubt as we try.

Marc

[richardkelsey]

Marc said:

Rich:

I will not accept that our situation is as bleak as you wish to paint it.

I hope more than anyone that I am wrong.

Marc said:

Actually, FB hasn't sunk so low to begin with - my little 1500 square foot house in the Borough was just appraised at $368,000. I only paid $55K for it back in 1981.

I hope you don't sell it for 55K when you retire! LOL

P.S. I had a 1516 square-foot home in Virginia too. I bought it in 2000 for 384 and sold it in 2005 for 710. (The median price of homes in Monmouth and my County were almost identical) The point being that values are not where they could or should be -- and very well may sink lower to where they definitely should not be.

The real question will be -- what will be the value of these homes 5 or ten years from now? Will your home be worth $368,000 or much more? I hope it is much, much more.

If I am correct -- which I hope I am not -- your value might be seriously in danger.

[Marc LeVine]

The real question will be -- what will be the value of these homes 5 or ten years from now? Will your home be worth $368,000 or much more? I hope it is much, much more.

If I am correct -- which I hope I am not -- your value might be seriously in danger

Right now the whole RE market stinks. There will come a point in time that appreciation hits a natural ceiling, anyway, unless the value of money further erodes. We do know that the RE market is cyclical...so is the price of gold...the stock market...oil prices...pay raises...and many other things. And, its all based on those inflated dollars, anyway.

When I was a kid, the stock market hovered around 800. That was around 1969. Yesterday, it closed at 12,300, another record high. My first job out of college was for less than $10,000 per year. My son's first job out of school is three time higher than that -- and so - unfortunately - are his bills.

We need to take better advantage of Freehold's location in the very desirable Western Monmouth County. Next door to us is Money Magazine's #2 most desirable town in the US - Manalapan. Our area is filling up very fast and if the Borough can reinvent itself to accommodate the needs of new and community oriented families, we can not only survive, but we can flourish.

Remember, the white trash Jackson of the 1970's. Well, many of the rich Marlboro retirees, originating from New York, are moving into Rennaissance and other upscale senior communities. This is all taking place near where trailer parks and hippie houses once stood. It's actually becoming en vogue to live there.

Even in Asbury Park, where the gay community is buying up much of the homes and businesses, there is a sense that they will not fail in recreating that very scary town. They know that their old homes fronting the Atlantic Ocean NEED to bring them a strong ROI and they will fight for that to happen. There is proof of this in their past success.

When Ocean Grove unfortunately became what Marlboro Psychiatric Hospital once was (all the group homes were placed there in the early 90's), it was this same gay community that rescued it from that and made it what it is, today. It is now one of the county's most charming shore area towns. Maybe, it's even nicer than it has ever had been.

Freehold has much more than a fighting chance. I know that Sibyl hates when I say this, but my Drs. told me that I only had a 15% chance to survive what I had -- I'm still here, fighting on. Odds are only numbers, anyway - aren't they?

Congrats on your Tom Kean Jr. loss predictions - but then again your prognostications were already shared by those making up Menendez' eventual victory margin. Each of them along with the people voting for the independent candidates or just staying home would have told you what you alreadt knew. It wasn't a good year to be a Bush Republican, especially in NJ.

Fortunately, no one is taking any polls or issuing any odds on Freehold Boro's future. The only way we will know if we have achieved our goals will be to look around and see if what will be out there is to our liking.

Marc

[wyane]

"...Other cities and towns, in far worse shape than Freehold Borough, have been turned around and now prosper."...

What towns? I'd love to know!

The Fact is that while other town councils like in Riverside NJ., Farmers Branch TX., Hazelton PA., even Riverside CA., protect their constituent communities buy put up a GOOD fight aimed at discouraging illegal immigrants from residing or laboring in their municipalities, the Freehold Boro Council capitulated to special interests and rolled out the welcome wagon to the pervasively illicit, who are intent on diluting the character of this historic town, aka, the Monmouth County Seat.

Marc, the fact is the illegal immigrants can care less about our boro's rich colonial, and revolutionary war history. They can care less about the lovely 150 year old Vic's that line our streets. I would like nothing more that to see freehold boro blossom into a Moorestown of Monmouth, but this settlement will establish the Boro as the El Barrio Boro, the Nuevo Monmouth County seat.

I must have missed the Town Hall Meeting when the council polled this community of HOME OWNERS, asking us to settle or fight for what is right. Funny how this settlement was announced AFTER you were elected.

Le Vine said, "Justice has been served. The system works. Many people around town will be pleased at this decision. When word gets out to other absentee landlords, they will realize the town will be persistent in prosecuting people who do not live up to their end of the bargain." ...your words from the 11/1 News Transcript. What about living up to YOUR end of the bargain, sticking up for the homeowners who voted for you? All gums, no teeth!

"Over the next three years I would like to concentrate on making ours a hometown of choice, in attracting and retaining more young families [who are] wishing to plant their roots in a town with much to offer them," he said. "We need to better promote our town as the great place it has always been to live and raise a family." from the 10/25 New Transcript. What new families are you referring to? This settlement will manifest the continued decline of our schools. The first factor any parent looks at when buying a home, is the performance of the schools, so I am confused by your pre-election comments. Hometown choice for whom? What respectable parent buys a home in a district with failing schools who have no funding, and no plan!

Like George Bush Sr. said no new taxes....right?

Abraham Lincoln, 16th president of US (1809 - 1865) "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time."

People voted for you because the though that they could bank on your words, less that one week after being elected to our councile...

Your a nice fella, with a good hart and good intentions, but your sounding like a typical and acting like a washington Politician, empty works and no evidence of accomplishment!

Sorry, the truth hurts

[wyane]

opps...how sloppy of me

**Your a nice fella, with a good hart and good intentions, but your sounding like and acting like a typical Washington Politician, empty words and no evidence of accomplishment!

[Marc]

**Your a nice fella, with a good hart and good intentions, but your sounding like and acting like a typical Washington Politician, empty words and no evidence of accomplishment!

Gee Wyane:

You certainly have a right to your own opinion, but I'm sorry you forgot or missed my first two terms on Council and a few of the things I've already accomplished, in town, since I got back on council - ONLY one year ago.

And, I suppose you are not interested in what we WILL do, together, over the next three years. Well, I'm not going to rehash all of my past successes for you. You'll just have to ask around town and read the earlier news clips. Hey, with all due respects, I'm not used to people counting me out - especially, so early. We're only just getting started.

Remember, also, that PEOPLE and this board exists because I was the force behind them. They were created for good reason. And, they DID make some BIG TIME noise, when they needed to. Major media picked up on what we were saying and our words spread around the country, way before there was a Mayor Barletta or an issue in Riverside, NJ. We surely scared the advocates enough for them to ask the State Attorney General to label PEOPLE a "hate group." He didn't and they failed to silence us.

As for settling the lawsuit - I knew a red herring when I saw one. This thing was to be one giant sucking machine for the plaintiff's lawyers and nothing more. THAT's THE WAY I SAW IT AND I'M NO SUPPORTER OF LOST CAUSES.

I heard plenty of insider remarks (including those from the judges, involved) telling us where this one was heading. I may have been born, at night, but I wasn't born last night. How much more of our money should we have spent to only be reminded that we can't consider the meaning of the words "illegal immigrants" in court and in this case? Trust me, armchair quarterbacks - there is no federal court, above this one, which will allow these words to be uttered, either. But, they WILL allow their taxpayer's money to be drained by legal hucksters. Want to challenge the Bill of Rights? Find Tom Jefferson.

Our brave Riverside officials, who set such wonderful things in motion ALL (the key ones) got booted out of office by their voters for doing just what we all thought was so very heroic - and why was that? Maybe, because the voters didn't like what was coming down? The negative PR? The anticipated court costs?

Thanks for putting my quotes in the same context of former presidents, George Bush Sr. and Abe Lincoln. But, if you want to talk history...Maybe, if Robert E. Lee listened to his Generals and made a "right turn" at Gettysburg, instead of insisting on fighting there, he would have prevailed in some other place. What did that poor decision cost him? Well, Longstreet and Pickett never forgave him for their huge loses. Worse, he never had the military force or the will to invade the north, ever again, after that - he shot the whole load in one wrong place.

In Freehold Borough, continuing this case was just not the way to go. Not THIS case. And, I wanted to prevail, here, just as much as you did . But, this was not the right case for this and its final outcome was not the end of Freehold Borough, either. Far from it. It only represents a change in direction.

THERE ARE MANY OTHER THINGS WE CAN DO TO IMPROVE FREEHOLD BOROUGH - BUT, NOT WITH DEFEATIST ATTITUDES. THIS IS NOT A HOPELESS SITUATION. IF YOU THINK IT IS, THEN COUNT THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES OUT, BECAUSE OURS IS A NATIONAL PROBLEM, SHARED BY ALL.

I'M SORRY. I AM JUST NOT A DEPRESSIVE TYPE - it's not good for my health and it's not good for our fortunes. Locally, we will still do what we can and must do. Keyport is taking the same approach, isn't it?

You ask about towns that have turned themselves around. I mentioned a few in my last post. Add to that list Maplewood, Hoboken, parts of the Bronx and Brooklyn. Belmar is coming on strong. Belmar was loaded with illegals - especially South Belmar. Bradley Beach, too. They all have borrowed from prosperity to recreate themselves. Yes, it takes alot of work - and the willingness of others to engage in it.

There is a group that I found and am working with that is responsible for helping towns like ours with similar issues. It is called the Fund for an Open Society www.opensociety.org. They may have some interesting ideas for us to consider. We'll soon see. We're going up to visit Maplewood, to learn what they have done to right their ship. I understand their results have been impressive.

Also, at last night's Board of Health meeting, we agreed to do some additional things to further punish some recent offenders (you know who) and to raise all the health fines and penalties related to some recent issues (you know what) and other situations that might emerge. The recommendations are being drafted and will soon go to Council for action.

Wyanne, there is much going on behind the scenes that the casual onlooker can not realize, but he/she should never think that things aren't happening. They just don't happen overnight.

I am only one voice on council. But, I do believe that my fellow councilmembers all want the same things for Freehold Borough. The lawsuit is over. When one door closes another one opens. We will not stand still while looking for solutions.

I'm not an idiot and do pretty well in the little consulting business I started just three years ago. I took a risk and won. I turned a profit in less than a year and now make a helluva alot more money than I ever did, working for other people. I must be doing something right. I bring my abilities and optimistic outlook along with me for all my endeavors. It has taken alot of training and experience to learn how to apply these things to many situations.

No one, who has ever lead has done so with hopelessness or negativism. If that's what you are looking for in the people you elect, please vote for them, next time around. Because, I will not bust my A** for people who think I am wasting my time trying to help them. There are just too many other more important things to do with my life than be criticized for working to better our town.

Oh, and by the way...I hate Washington Politicians!! Please, don't ever call me one again. It implies undesirable traits that I do not have. That was, perhaps, your biggest insult to me. The rest of what you wrote - was simply a challenge. In that case, I accept your challenge. See you at the finish line. The real question is -- Will you be running along side of me or just watching from the sidelines?

Marc

[wyane]

"my first two terms on Council " that was almost 10 years ago, Life was different in 1997, we impeach a president over a stain on a blue dress, and today we have a presidency that challenges the pretense of the US being a republic. Never the less, you may be making a good case for term limits, so that other people can have a chance to effect change with fresh ideas. Do you feel good about running UN-opposed. Honest debate and alternative views are a good thing yes?.

"not interested in what we WILL do, together, over the next three years" I'd like to hear about the plans. All I see are new brick sidewalks on main street. Honestly a few more stores down town is NOT going to change anything! There will be more more sales tax for the state, a few wealthy businessmen who own the retail real estate, and store owners (who more than likely, will not be living in the boro) will make out well, and line their pockets. Explain to me how this benefits the greater community and home owners, who are the real source of revenue for the town. Is there a statistic you can share to show the source of the town revenue collection, i.e., homeowners rateable vs state funding vs other sources of revenue? We need real a real vision for an "Urban Development plan". Would have been nice to hear specifics during an election champaign, not generalizations and hyperbolie.

"brave Riverside officials, ....got booted out of office" So you chose to announce a "settlement" AFTER the election, clever Marc!

BTW, Your no Robert E. Lee (TY Lloyd Benson, may you rest in peace), and Niether am I!

".I hate Washington Politicians!! Please, don't ever call me one again"...Sorry, how about a Kremlinesk-Polit Bureua Partisan, The Kremlin was full of publicly elected offices who ran un-opposed and know what was best for the people too!

OK, from this point on I'll acept that your going to do your best over the next three years, so whats your plan?

[admin]

Wyane
I am glad that you have chosen to participate on this board. Without doubt, you have put forth some excellent commentary. I share many of your views and concerns. AS you said in another thread, this is a small town and we are here together.

Having said that, I have to take issue with the hostility that you have demonstrated toward Marc. First point, we should be happy to have a councilman on board. I wish more of them would join in. Yes, he is a public official and should be well prepared for criticism, but use caution in not attacking him or any other person on this board. There is no reason for anything to turn personal.

I do not always agree with Marc, or our town government, but they do deserve respect. They took on their offices to get involved and try to better this town. It is an uphill battle for them. As far as running un opposed, there was a Republican candidate who did very well considering this is a Democrat town and the candidate does not have name recognition. Do not think that did not go unnoticed. If anything, blame the Republicans for not putting forth a better job of getting themselves out there.

My point Wyane, is to get across an unwritten rule. This board is for an exchange of ideas, news, and promotion of ideas for our town. Solutions are the best thing we can have here. I can tell you that there are many eyes on this board, and the ideas are being watched. When put in that context, there is no good in becoming hostile toward any individual.

I write this for the good of everyone, we must remain focused and united in this town. That will include dealing with people we do not always agree with.

At the end of th day Wyane, you me and Marc are in this together. We share many of the same concerns. We are one town, this is our town.

Keep it sane and keep it Freehold.

Brian

[wyane]

"issue with the hostility that you have demonstrated toward Marc"...

Not meant to be hostile, sorry for this misprision! Just constructive critique, if it sounds ill tempered sorry. Last weeks settlement sounded way out of character from what I had heard in the past.

Marc has MOXIE (being a wonderful quality), not mincing words, and telling "it like it is". SO with out a public posting of the actual Settelemnt document, I smell the aroma of Flip-Flopp.

He is also an elected public servant, and his decisions impact our lives, I would hope that he, and every other elected public servant listens to constructive criticism. At times I use constructive sarcasm, please do not mistake this as hostility, expressed by using ironic twist or spin that punctuates how others hear words and see actions.

I can be pissed, pointing out contradictions and not be hostile. Please understand this!

This BLOG seems to be a great venue, and keeping an upbeat constructive exchange is my interest I am not intent on being appropriate.

As to being a registered user, soon, I will give this time to learn more about this "CYBER" community first.

TY "W"

Thanks Brian

[Marc LeVine]

We need real a real vision for an "Urban Development plan". Would have been nice to hear specifics during an election champaign, not generalizations and hyperbolie.

First, you refer to me as some Kremlin "absolutist," not willing to accept input from our residents. Then, you want to hear my "ideas" for Freehold, which were expressed during the campaign.

Well, I'm going to try and be the kind of elected official you seem to be impressed with and ask you to share yours? This way, we will both know if we are, at least, on the same page.

You mention, Urban Development. Don't you mean Urban Renewal? A good concept, but... be careful, the advocates are watching this board. Did you hear what happened to Bound Brook for using those kind of words? Their plan was to use eminent domain to take and bulldoze the areas where their illegal immigrants were living - similar to what we did on Mechanic Street. At least, in our case, there was no group that, I am aware of, who advocates for drug dealers and crack addicts.

Here's what the judges told Bound Brook about their Urban Renewal plan:

www.usdoj.gov/crt/housing/documents/boundbrooksettle.htm

See the word "settle" at the end of th URL. Yup, them too.

But, you are nonetheless correct - we need to improve the overall situation in town by replacing that what is attractive to absentee landlords and their inconsiderate tenants with things that attract more homeownership and other community strengthening mechanisms, such as a better business mix in downtown. You say people don't care about the downtown. Take a ride to Liberty, NY (Sullivan County) and see why they call theirs a depressed area.

I don't know your personal feelings on this subject, but I'll share some thought - just as an idea to bounce around. Perhaps, we could interest the Gay community to come to Freehold Borough and invest in our town, like they have in Ocean Grove, New Hope (Pa), Lambertville (NJ) and are now doing in Asbury Park.

With a gay community, we would have more homeownership that brings with it a lesser impact on our schools. Now, there's an idea to kick around if you are progressive enough. These people would also bring with them, the Arts (galleries, craft stores, interesting specialty shops, etc.), which would compliment the Raceway Mall, nicely. Again, just an idea to kick around. This is the purpose of the board - isn't' it?

Look, I know you wanted to end our earlier back and forth by giving me the benefit of your doubt i trying my best to help our town. Thank you and I accept not just yours, but this challenge by our entire town to help improve things, working along with them and the rest of Council.

Now I must turn things around, just a bit, and get you off YOUR sofa to see just how much more than a town critic YOU are willing to be. Come on now...

Will you meet me for breakfast or lunch to share ideas and consider strategies? I'll buy the meal, you provide the enlightenment. In addition, will you, then, accept possible consideration for appointment to a Borough Committee that can be part of our solutions? Let's set the date..even for early this week.

If you are not agreeable to either of my offers, I will then have to suppose you have an agenda that differs from helping me succeed for our town's good.

In saying YES, you would not be establishing a new precedent, as I have, already, met with Brian, Calliope, Freehold Resident and a few others, as well as have extended an invitation to also sit with Republican Challeger, John Ligouri and Jaye Sims, in the very near future. John has already accepted. It has just been so hectic with my father so ill...but he is improving, thank G-d.

You can answer me on the board, send me an email at [e-mail] or call me at 732-866-4077 or 732-780-2751. And, I promise not to blow your cover with our posters. Though, it is important for them to know if you have accepted or declined my offer.

Marc

[Freehold Resident]

That's a very interesting idea that you brought up-- marketing to the gay community.

It's a great idea, and not something that has gone unnoticed by other towns.

A man by the name of Richard Florida, a professor on urban and economic development at Carnegie Mellon, just released a book on the subject. "The Rise of the Creative Class." It's about towns and cities that have taken the initiative to attract the gay community, and the great results. It talks about cities and towns with large gay populations, as well as creative communities (students, artists, etc) are at the forefront of economic development. For example, I believe San Francisco is number 1.

The reasoning is that most gay couples have a lot of disposable income, and because most do not have kids, they are willing to take risks, and open up businesses. The gay community has billions and billions of dollars. This is something that not many are taking advantage of, but should be. Many companies are now starting to realize this and market to the gay community. Now if Freehold would tap into this, we'd be off to a great start!

I think just by seeing the 180 that Asbury Park has done in the past few years is enough to prove this theory.

As they say, the running joke (with truth) is...when gay people move into an area, property values skyrocket!

F R

[Marc LeVine]

Marc has MOXIE (being a wonderful quality), not mincing words, and telling "it like it is". SO with out a public posting of the actual Settlement document, I smell the aroma of Flip-Flopp.

Gosh. I didn't see Fed Ups post about Bound Brook until I posted mine, with a link to their settlement. Fed Up - we are on the same page and you are well informed. Thank you!

Wyanne: the fact that Bound Brook's settlement document is available, I am sure Freehold Borough's soon will be, also. It's all public information.

As for flip-flopping, that's not me. I vote the way I feel. If I thought we could do something more with this case, I would have told the courts to go stick it. But, if they won't let us discuss "illegal immigration," we have no leg to stand on. I have some "special" emails that prove that out. Unfortunately, I can't post them here. But, if you want to share a beer...

The MOXIE you talk about is still there and will be used in positions of strength. The SMARTS are still there too. I made a "cold, calculated business decision" after reviewing the situation and doing some further risk analysis. Believe me, I was looking for a good reason to vote NO, but couldn't find one that made logical sense. If we continued the suit, cost us all more money and lost, believe you and me that we would all be even more p****d and somewhat poorer. Then, the second guessing would be about choice of attorneys etc.

Wyanne: You ARE upset and disappointed. To some degree, I DO deserve some of that anger headed my way - all of us on council do. You were let down - we all were. But, it wasn't all because of the decision we had to make. It was mostly, because the courts let us down. They took the words of Communists, Socialists and Marxists, over those of mainstream Americans, who seek to protect this country from a great threat. Such things are not supposed to work this way...but, this is the way it came down...and we must all regroup and come at this, AGAIN, from other angles.

Let's move on.

Marc

By the way, when I left charing PEOPLE, I suggested that we get an attorney from FAIR to represent us. The Mayor even agreed to this idea, but my successor, Vanessa Minnena (future Republican council candidate) withheld the introduction. She was working closely with FAIR and deliberately gummed up the works. She didn't want to help council do this and even thought PEOPLE would be drawn into the lawsuit if it aided the Mayor. But that's all ancient history now. Little things you didn't know.

[Marc LeVine]

That's a very interesting idea that you brought up-- marketing to the gay community.

F R

OK. Let's take the idea a step further. Sounds like you already have read that book, how might you suggest we outreach these people...err...that's if most agree it is a consideration.

Perhaps, if we wanted this to go further, the Human Relations Committee can help do some of the legwork. And..here it comes..YOU can work help advise them.

Again, we're just talking.

Marc

[Freehold Resident]

I guess, a big first step, would be to show them that the town is "tolerant."

This can be done by possibly organizing some gay-related chapters in town, or something that would make the town stand out as gay-friendly. Since there are many towns that are not, or just neutral, Freehold Borough would stand out. This could even be done, I'm sure, by placing gay-friendly marketing around town or in publications. Maybe a rainbow flag or something. The only problem we run into here is that some residents might feel they are being "invaded," so it can't be done in a overwhelming way. Just enough to show the gay community that we are welcoming. Freehold is, for the most part, a very progressive town. I think it would work.

Another thing would be to advertise in gay publications or LOGO, the recent "gay TV channel," which is owned by Viacom. They run segments in their news program sometimes about things going on around the country.

You could run advertisements in The Advocate or OUT magazine, for example, which encourage the gay community to come to Freehold. I think that is what some towns did...they ran some catchphrases. I will research and find out what kinds of ads they put out.

Basically, in general, you really want to make it known that we are a welcoming and tolerant community. I'm sure a gay bar would help out a lot as well. I think that Club Paradise actually started the whole ball rolling in Asbury, actually.

You have to remember..not only does a majority of the gay community have the time and money to invest, since most do not have kids, but you're also figuring in a DOUBLE-MALE income, which can translate to millions of dollars for the town.

I think word-of-mouth would set it off eventually.

F R

[bergsteiger]

Gay marketing using tax dollars? Gay bars? A town filled with men that act like women and women who look like men.

Talk about taking a poison pill to kill the disease.

How are you going to get the "tools" to buy into that one?

[Freehold Resident]

Oh.....I'm sorry Bergsteiger....do you live in Freehold Borough?

Oh, that's right, you don't. Which means you don't pay taxes AT ALL in this town. So, why don't you keep your mouth shut and cut the sh*t

F R

[bergsteiger]

Freehold said:

Oh.....I'm sorry Bergsteiger....do you live in Freehold Borough?

Oh, that's right, you don't. Which means you don't pay taxes AT ALL in this town. So, why don't you keep your mouth shut and cut the sh*t

F R

FR,

There you go again, being intolerant. Yeah, that’s just what the borough needs more rainbow flag waivers like you.

What makes you think you have the right to tell people to shut up on a public board? What kind of liberal are you?

[Freehold Resident]

I found this article. It was in The Star-Ledger in 2003. Perfect article to read about this subject.... It almost reminds me of the movie from the 1980s...."Batteries Not Included," if anyone gets the analogy. - F R


These buyers put a premium on tolerance

Sunday, November 16, 2003

BY MARY JO PATTERSON
Star-Ledger Staff


When Pete Hobday decided to buy his house in downtown Trenton it looked so bad the bank wouldn't even give him a loan.

The house, a little two-story affair with a notched roof of simulated stone, was at 250 Jackson St. in Mill Hill, a historic but ragged and not-very-safe neighborhood of old row houses. The year was 1985. The purchase price: $25,000.

"It was horrible," Hobday recalled the other day. "There was no heat. There were a lot of people living here - and a lot of kerosene heaters."

Hobday's parents came through with the loan, but he didn't let them see his purchase for a month. For a while he was even afraid to tell his partner, Tom Moyer, that he'd bought it.

"When my mother came to look, she wouldn't even go upstairs," said Hobday, 49, who grew up in Long Branch and Howell. "Her big thing was, 'You borrowed our money for this?'"

Gay men and women live throughout the United States, in cities and sprawling suburbs and little towns. Their demographics are similar to those of everyone else.

But the country also has definite gay clusters. Some are sizable and widely known, like parts of San Francisco and Manhattan. Others are tiny.

In such places, same-sex couples tend to be more affluent than their neighbors. They are also - like Hobday and Moyer - more likely to be white than other adults in the surrounding community.

This is true not only in Trenton, but in Asbury Park and Plainfield, where there also are gay enclaves.

In all three places, gays were attracted to the housing, which was undervalued, and undeterred by poor schools. They also found tolerance.

Plainfield's situation was similar in that its housing stock - much of it grand - had deteriorated as badly as Trenton's and Asbury Park's. But, said Plainfield Mayor Albert McWilliams, many of the houses gays have restored are in historically white neighborhoods.

Trenton's Mill Hill, meanwhile, has become something of a gay enclave. Pete Hobday counts 24 gay people on his block, now a showpiece of urban gentility.

He and Moyer altered their house dramatically and put on an addition. Practically all of the other houses also have been rehabilitated, and are adorned with wrought iron fences, brass lamps, planters or other elegant touches.

Number 214 is for sale. The asking price? $279,000. "Pricey for the size, but it's one of the smarter areas of town," said the listing broker.

Straight couples also are moving into the neighborhood. "We're starting to have young people having babies," Hobday said.

In the late 1970s, the city of Trenton did its share to jump-start redevelopment in Mill Hill, installing brick sidewalks and gas lamps. But gay men and women, individually and in networks, have played at least as big a role.

"I think gays saw an opportunity to take hold of it. Nobody else wanted it," said Nancy Hillman, president of the Trenton Gay and Lesbian Civic Association. "It's not just Mill Hill. Part of our platform is to attract gays to all neighborhoods. We find Trenton a very wonderful place to live."

A similar phenomenon has played out in other depressed areas, shunned by middle-class families seeking good schools.

In Asbury Park, gay men and, increasingly, gay women, have transformed many formerly grand homes that had come to resemble flophouses. Others, not so large, have been similarly upgraded.

John Loffredo, a 49-year-old Asbury Park councilman and one of the city's gay pioneers, said the transformation started with "a couple of men" who moved into town. Their friends came to visit, looked around and decided to do the same thing. Gays often "go into places that are run-down," he said. "They see what the community can be, which is a good thing."

Last month, Loffredo, a real estate agent, provided a tour of the city in his 2003 gold Lexus. Sixth Avenue, in the northeast corner of the city, has become the city's showpiece. Now, similar improvements can be seen farther south .

"This house here was absolutely destroyed," Loffredo said, pointing with his left hand to a proud restoration on Sixth. "A guy bought it and totally did it over. Now it's magnificent. It was really gross - I know, I showed it - you had to go in with a flashlight. There was a dead cat in there."

He switched hands on the steering wheel to point out another showpiece on the right. "This was a wreck. Absolutely awful," he said. "Basically uninhabitable."

Many recent buyers have moved from Manhattan, including Jon Pickhardt and Chad Caranto. Pickhardt, 34, a lawyer, and Caranto, 29, a fitness consultant, bought a house on Fourth Avenue and Bond Street in 2001.

"Asbury Park appeared to be an amazing town that was down on its luck, and really trying to pick itself up by its bootstraps. From a financial perspective, there was inexpensive property, with potential," Pickhardt said. "It was also just a kind of exciting underdog-type story."

The couple bought a 110-year-old house, with about 2,500 square feet, for $135,000. They gutted the structure and started over. So much work was required that it was nine months before they could sleep there.

Not all the newcomers are gay. A heterosexual couple with a 6-month-old baby lives across the street from Pickhardt and Caranto.

But there is comfort in having a supportive gay community around, Pickhardt said.

"We had something happen to us last Halloween. That night, we had what we presume were local kids - although we're not sure - spray anti-gay epithets on the side of our house," he said. "That's a horrendous thing to have happen."

The pair told some of their friends what had happened.

"They actually organized a community event," Pickhardt said. "The next day we ended up with maybe 75 to 100 people in our front yard, with paintbrushes."

In some towns with significant gay populations, gays and straights inhabit two different worlds. In others, common concerns unite them.

In Trenton, for example, the Gay and Activist Civic Association encourages members to get involved in the community.

Last month, after reading that the 300-year-old St. Michael's Episcopal Church downtown was in dire need of new members and repairs, association president Nancy Hillman decided members should "adopt" it and help raise funds. She telephoned the pastor.

The Rev. John Conners was thrilled. "The fact that it's an Episcopal church probably didn't hurt," he said, acknowledging that the denomination's liberal stand on homosexuality probably helped get the group's attention.

"But the offer really had to do with preserving this piece of Trenton. I think we've made a good start."

[bergsteiger]

Propaganda Alert!

For every gay couple that fixes up a house there are 95 normal couples who did the same. Why are you trying to push the gay agenda on us?

[Freehold Resident]

What the hell is a "gay agenda??"

F R

[admin]

wyane said:

"issue with the hostility that you have demonstrated toward Marc"...

Not meant to be hostile, sorry for this misprision! Just constructive critique, if it sounds ill tempered sorry. Last weeks settlement sounded way out of character from what I had heard in the past.

Marc has MOXIE (being a wonderful quality), not mincing words, and telling "it like it is". SO with out a public posting of the actual Settlement document, I smell the aroma of Flip-Flopp.

He is also an elected public servant, and his decisions impact our lives, I would hope that he, and every other elected public servant listens to constructive criticism. At times I use constructive sarcasm, please do not mistake this as hostility, expressed by using ironic twist or spin that punctuates how others hear words and see actions.

I can be pissed, pointing out contradictions and not be hostile. Please understand this!

This BLOG seems to be a great venue, and keeping an upbeat constructive exchange is my interest I am not intent on being appropriate.

As to being a registered user, soon, I will give this time to learn more about this "CYBER" community first.

TY "W"

Thanks Brian

Key words from your post:

Constructive Critique- I say bring it on!

Pissed- I am with you, we have every reason to be just that.

Upbeat exchange- Good idea, not only should we throw out the hardball topics, but highlight all that is still good about our town.

MOXIE- Yes, Marc has that. We need a few more like him, instead of for sale signs.

AS I said before Wyane, you have been a good voice for this board. Many eyes are watching. Keep it up!

[wyane]

"This BLOG seems to be a great venue, and keeping an upbeat constructive exchange is my interest I am not intent on being appropriate."


A goofy typo on my part...meant ** INAPPROPRIATE** BIGGGG Oops!!!

[Wyane]

"These buyers put a premium on tolerance"

I don't think so..... FB has too many functional "FAMILIES", the communities discussed in the article, have been mostly destroyed by urban-esk blight, and high crime, and are ABBOTT districts, and are not traditional MOM/DAD functional Family Values zones...

SO lets review the check list..

No City folk
No Illegal Latino Immigrants
and Gay ain't the best way

How about we market Freed Boro to South Asians, and Iraqi's,... we have every denomination represented in the Boro except we are missing a Buddest temple and a Mosque,

Have you seen the Math Scores and English Proficiency Grades of their kids? I'll bet dollars to donuts they will turnaround the school district into miracle/success story in no time!

We can have a Tandoori Grill Palace Restaurant, A Balliwood movie theater, a new Halal Butcher Shop, A Smoke Free-Arabian Smoke Shop, fashionable Sari shop Berka Boutique, a Gray Market Appliance/Electronics outlet, and a replace the 6-12 with a REAL Authentic 7-11,

(Kinda kidding, but maybe not.....)

[wyane]

"A formula for opportunity...9-digit tax ID numbers help workers eager to pay fair share"

This can is be called a "Blotz-fizitz" Number too, COME ON NOW... this is just another smoke and mirror band-aid, thats not gonna fix a thing. We have a 9 Digit Tax ID number ,for the last 60 years...it's called a social security number?

And what is the difference between this VS from being a registered 1099 contractor?

Do the anchor babies lose protection under the 14th amendment, when the mom/dad accept a "Special" tax ID numbers ?

Will the "Special tax ID" -worker be entitled to a new lower, guest worker min. wage too?

We have instruments in place for legal foreign guest workers today, called a Guest Worker VISA, so this is not fixing a d**n thing,...Its just more feel good jargon that legitimizes amnesty for criminals and the people that profit from them.

This 9-digit tax ID numbers creates more public policy to track, and doesn't fix a thing. What needs happen is a SERIOUS crack down on the employers, Holding them accountable for hiring criminals. They ARE accomplices to these lawbreakers, needed to be spank HARD (for keeping two sets of book in many cases, sorry small business person but....your screwing your neighbors and community, through your greed)!

Why will an employer offer a worker a raise, they can suggest that there will be no more wage increases, only replacement by another "Now-Legal" guest worker...

Again, we have large labor today pool, we do not need to legitimate, or invite a new lower class of low income residents who DO dilute wages and employer offered benefits, while consuming copious amounts of public assistance from WIC programs, NJ Care, Medicare, Medicaid, Soc Sec....

So I ask...without any chance of employment, why come here?

The IRS needs to get VERY involved too, both ICE or INF (whatever they call them selves today). The IRS is also responsible for this current crisis situation, and they need to fix "STUFF", before adding "STUFF" like a 9-digit tax ID number.

How can soooo many false or abused SS#'s be circulating (must be a few million SS#'s, yes?) and no enforcement from the IRS either?

Clearly revenue collection is broken. 9-digit tax ID numbers will be abused before the day they are issued if the systems is not fixed first. Without the IRS AND State revenue collection agencies fix their broken systems.

With the powerful, complex computer systems available today, the problem of MILLIONS of phony SS# should not happen. This is a big flag that the IRS is all screwed up.

Lets look for another solution that will work. How about making it not possible for an employer to hire illegal workers. Will this make our great country unappealing to those illegal workers, forcing them to go back from where they came.

With out any chance of employment, why come here? That the goal I support!

[Freehold Resident]

So let's see..

West Hollywood-- One of the most expensive, and nicest parts of Los Angeles. (Gay)

San Francisco- One of the top 10 cities to live in in the country. The most expensive part to live in is the Castro district (gay.)

New York City- West Village, or village in general. Very expensive and nicest part. (gay.)

Chicago- Boystown...once was a dump..now one of the most expensive parts to live in. (gay.)

Asbury Park- Was a total dump even five years ago. Now has million dollar condos and property values are skyrocketing.

Even if you go International, it's still the same thing.

Paris- Le Marais district....one of the nicest areas and expensive (gay.)

Montreal- Rue St. Catherine (gay.)

You give me any city, and the majority of them have a gay section which is considered the nicest part of the area, and has the highest property values.

F R

[wyane]

First, you refer to me as some Kremlin "absolutist," not willing to accept input from our residents. Well, I'm going to try and be the kind of elected official you seem to be impressed with and ask you to share yours? This way, we will both know if we are, at least, on the same page.
Running against another candidate adds dimension that inspires debate and ideas, I may be barking up the wrong tree, maybe the "opposition", whomever they are, needs to step up and challenge more and help facilitate inspired debate.

Then, you want to hear my "ideas" for Freehold, which were expressed during the campaign. I reviewed the news transcript coverage, maybe I need to start showing up to a council meeting or two as well If. I look at the website of our US/NJ Senator, Congressman, and State legislators, they post the bills they sponsor, the committees they survey on, and the results of the bills they vote on. This is how you measure a candidates. Maybe the Boro needs to start adding this type of information to the new web site.

You mention, Urban Development. Don't you mean Urban Renewal?
The boro needs development, not so much renewal

A good concept, but... be careful, the advocates are watching this board. Did you hear what happened to Bound Brook for using those kind of words? Their plan was to use eminent domain to take and bulldoze the areas where their illegal immigrants were living - similar to what we did on Mechanic Street. At least, in our case, there was no group that, I am aware of, who advocates for drug dealers and crack addicts. eminent domain, I don't think, can be enforced because you don't like the tenants/occupants, It needs to be studies hard, and just cause must be carefully examined, truly a slippery slope

But, you are nonetheless correct - we need to improve the overall situation in town by replacing that what is attractive to absentee landlords and their inconsiderate tenants with things that attract more homeownership and other community strengthening mechanisms, such as a better business mix in downtown. You say people don't care about the downtown. Take a ride to Liberty, NY (Sullivan County) and see why they call theirs a depressed area.

I just might do this, TY

I don't know your personal feelings on this subject, but I'll share some thought - just as an idea to bounce around. Perhaps, we could interest the Gay community to come to Freehold Borough and invest in our town, like they have in Ocean Grove, New Hope (Pa), Lambertville (NJ) and are now doing in Asbury Park.

"Not that there is anything wrong with that"....Is this a plan B, C or D? , this sounds like "Lets Pick a Minority group to market out town to..." and how with this help a "Family Values" based community (can't believe I quoted Dan Quayle, PLEASE forgive me)

Look, I know you wanted to end our earlier back and forth by giving me the benefit of your doubt i trying my best to help our town. Thank you and I accept not just yours, but this challenge by our entire town to help improve things, working along with them and the rest of Council.

Now I must turn things around, just a bit, and get you off YOUR sofa to see just how much more than a town critic YOU are willing to be. Come on now... Sandler Reversal?

Will you meet me for breakfast or lunch to share ideas and consider strategies? I'll buy the meal, you provide the enlightenment. In addition, will you, then, accept possible consideration for appointment to a Borough Committee that can be part of our solutions? Let's set the date..even for early this week.
How about I attend a few council meetings to learn more about the council's agenda...

If you are not agreeable to either of my offers, I will then have to suppose you have an agenda that differs from helping me succeed for our town's good. This is an interesting proposition, however the context is a bit cynical, non the less, this is the WORST week, unless you have an extra 6 place settings Thursday..

In saying YES, you would not be establishing a new precedent, as I have, already, met with Brian, Calliope, Freehold Resident and a few others, as well as have extended an invitation to also sit with Republican Challenger, John Ligouri and Jaye Sims, in the very near future. John has already accepted. It has just been so hectic with my father so ill...but he is improving, thank G-d. when and were there meeting held by PEOPLE???, This may be a good venue for me to learn more through a community advocacy groups of like minded citisens...

You can answer me on the board, send me an email at [e-mail] or call me at 732-866-4077 or 732-780-2751. And, I promise not to blow your cover with our posters. Though, it is important for them to know if you have accepted or declined my offer.
[e-mail], so do not take ANY of this the wrong was PLEASE, I hate never ending negative digressing "E-Bates", I'd like noting more than 2007 to be a year that our town moves forward, Lets have fewer for sales signs, and more Families as buyers!
Marc

[wyane]

"You give me any city,".....

Come on FR,

Again...these are not traditional MOM/DAD functional Family Values city zones. we're a small town, with little to offer gay community, on the scale of the cities you sight...

With respect to GAY "Disposable" income, what would you envision a gay community coming to FB to spend money on in town? "Discrete" gay bars, and how many

Maybe when Mc Greavey takes up residency in FB, we can open the first Gay Wedding Chapel in the state, Can a former Gov legally conduct a marriage ceremony?

The America Hotel can be a Reception Hall, wow and how about the Leather Boutique, and the associated "Toy" stores....

Look close at the type of retailing and associated "Specialty" stores that drive the gay economy, you not just getting "ARTSY Eclectic" stores....This is thinkning out of the Box, but I can;t see this as being the best thing for the county seat!