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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Oct 15, 2007 16:48:53 GMT -5
Fiber said: "In fact I bet the "Old Guard" on the council would like nothing better than to see our youngest and brightest run up to grab the baton, and to do so without following the usual chain of ascension does take MOXY, thank you!" Who said I want to grab the baton? I'm a city boy and moving to Manhattan or LA when I get the chance. I'm not sticking around in Freehold forever. It will always be my hometown, but I have things to see, people to do. I mean..... Now onto Rich.... Rich, you know I think you're a smart man, but the one thing that I hope you take into consideration is how you come across to others. When you post, instead of sounding like you are offering your thoughts, you come off sounding as if you own the board and that your thoughts are the final say. You may accuse me of the same thing, but I would classify my posts as more indignant than angry. As far as the IP addresses go...you can say that you monitor them, but who's to say that you don't allow people with your own viewpoints, or from your party, to make multiple names and people from other viewpoints to not. We've already seen evidence of this.....people like Cloris posting obscene, hateful posts about certain groups of people and being allowed to get away with that. However, when people of the other side were disagreeing with her, they got edited or deleted for saying one curse word. I think that hate is MUCH worse than a little curse word anyday. The machine is hard at work on this Web site!! There is a LOT of stuff going on behind the scenes that many of us I'm sure do not know about. - Are you saying I am not young blood Stephen??? :-) Your are young, I took off to live in FLA when- I was your age, it's great to get out from under the shadow of mom and pop, pustv some miles between you and your roots. and when or iif you come back, having been off the rock for a few years, you gain a whole new perspective. LA, go for it, it is a bit "LA-LA" NYC, too close to home. Try Toronto or VC, or LONDON (I dare you to try London, just done expect good food for a while) you need to check it out the world, I ahve done some. Highly recomended! |
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Post by cheryl on Oct 15, 2007 17:20:59 GMT -5
Actually, unless they are paying an extra fee for one, Verizon DSL users (not sure about FIOS, I can't afford it) in Freehold Borough do not have a fixed IP and can change their IP address at will. Cheryl, You are right and believe me the site tracking is not perfect. We do the best with what we can though. I understand. Luckily, the board trolls don't seem to be very 'net savvy. (Which is sort of sad, if you think about it... shouldn't a troll be more hip to the ways of the tubes than a middle-aged hausfrau?) Yeah, the package is a good deal, if you watch television - which we don't. Everyone we know who has the FIOS package loves it, though. </thread hijack> |
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Post by richardkelsey on Oct 15, 2007 17:26:43 GMT -5
Fiber said: "In fact I bet the "Old Guard" on the council would like nothing better than to see our youngest and brightest run up to grab the baton, and to do so without following the usual chain of ascension does take MOXY, thank you!" Who said I want to grab the baton? I'm a city boy and moving to Manhattan or LA when I get the chance. I'm not sticking around in Freehold forever. It will always be my hometown, but I have things to see, people to do. I mean..... Now onto Rich.... Rich, you know I think you're a smart man, but the one thing that I hope you take into consideration is how you come across to others. When you post, instead of sounding like you are offering your thoughts, you come off sounding as if you own the board and that your thoughts are the final say. You may accuse me of the same thing, but I would classify my posts as more indignant than angry. As far as the IP addresses go...you can say that you monitor them, but who's to say that you don't allow people with your own viewpoints, or from your party, to make multiple names and people from other viewpoints to not. We've already seen evidence of this.....people like Cloris posting obscene, hateful posts about certain groups of people and being allowed to get away with that. However, when people of the other side were disagreeing with her, they got edited or deleted for saying one curse word. I think that hate is MUCH worse than a little curse word anyday. The machine is hard at work on this Web site!! There is a LOT of stuff going on behind the scenes that many of us I'm sure do not know about. I certainly do not permit the type of false personality issues you describe. Remember -- I post under my own name, and I encourage people to do likewise. We also were working very hard to pound out blatant abusers. (Numerous people we logging on as one person, posting, and then logging on as another from the same address.) While it is true that a sophisticated person could manipulate the IP address if they knew how -- most do not. In fact, most people have the exact same IP address that they have been posting under historically. Anyway -- you have only my word that we don't permit conservatives to build multiple personalities while banning others. Frankly, one who reads the site can see we don't necessarily have so much traffic that we now are building some fake mass of people. Finally -- I am sorry if I come off as if I own the Board. I do not. In fact, I initially declined to monitor the site for fear that some would find my status as a non-resident not worthy of being a monitor. I have tried to do a very fair job in monitoring posts -- particularly related to free political speech. (Which may sometimes include what you refer to as "hate speech.") I don't agree with very much that is posted by many posters here -- politically or otherwise. If I banned people for not agreeing with me, or writing things I did not like -- there would be no one here. The hardest thing about allowing free, political speech, is allowing speech one does not like. It gets even tougher when the debate and the speech is not substantive -- and sometimes crosses the line on decency standards -- which are by every definition -- somewhat subjective. My word is not the final word with respect to any opinion -- other than mine. That is -- opinions are judged by people who read them, and try to understand them. Good opinions, in my opinion, are based on a time tested formula. 1. State the opinion 2. State the facts that support the opinion. 3. Apply the facts to your opinion and differentiate different facts from your conclusion. 4. Leader the reader through your analysis to draw the same conclusion you started with. To me -- those are quality opinions when they are well-written and follow that format. But here's the fabulous thing about free speech and opinions -- they are free and there is no obligation to buttress an opinion with fact. I let the opinions sit -- and people can judge them for themselves. Right now -- this site has spent too much time addressing the opinion drafters -- rather than the issues and facts set out by the opinions. (Though there has been a nice discussion on the relative merits and pros and cons of having out-of-towners sit on certain committees) I can't force people to debate substantively. I can't force people to debate at all. PEOPLE provides a platform. People use if for a million purposes. Those are allowed within the guidelines. I wish the site had better discussion, and I wish people valued participation as much as I do. But they don't. I think Marc said something like "the Board will do" what it does during election time. The Board does nothing. The Board is registered users that chose to participate and follow the rules. We can't stop them from participating unless they break the rules -- and we shouldn't even dare to do so. Marc said that participation by him or an elected official on the Board was a privilege. Wow -- he and I could not agree less on that point. Service to the community is a privilege. Choosing the means and methods of how one interacts and serves that community is a decision of the elected official. That decision, like all decisions, is subject to review in November. I think it is great that Marc contributes -- and I have written that repeatedly. (Certainly no political propaganda from the right there) I think, however, that when he backs out of contributing during election season -- when a real issue comes up -- he does a disservice to himself and to the residents who have come to expect and receive more from him. There are issues in this election the PEOPLE of Freehold have not yet even heard of or considered. I am not working for any of these candidates. If any one of them called me, I would give them all the same advice. I would take them to task for views with which I disagree, and applaud them for efforts with which I agree. I could think of excellent strategies for every one of them. That's not my job or purpose. I am doing the same thing I have been doing since 1986. I am raising issues and talking about Freehold Borough. Sometimes I lash into the Mayor and Council, and sometimes I cheer them on. I always try to ask questions -- and I always try to point out areas of problems and inconsistencies. That's my way of getting people to think. Some people think -- some just get mad at me. I could do what 70% of the registered voters, and 90% of the Town will do this November -- nothing. That should make people one hell of a lot madder then some guy who sticks it out there. If I were running a campaign in Freehold -- you would know it. Heck -- read the "What would you do" posts for some flavor of what I might be doing. Here -- I am jsut a voluteer moderator who posts opinions and tries to raise issues. Nothing would make me happier than to see strong, rational participation on this site -- from every side of the equation. |
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Post by stffgpr2003 on Oct 16, 2007 9:15:24 GMT -5
The Board WILL do what it does - BECAUSE the Board is made up of the people, who post on it and for whatever motivation(s) they are driven by. The "silly season" produces definate posting trends that include active campaigning from information sharing to mud slinging. We saw this last year and we are seeing it this year. Participation by anyone on a board IS a privledge - not just for elected officials. You know this - because when people cross the line they are warned or banned. And...no one, including elected officials are forced to post on any one particular board. There are many ways to communicate with the residents and as long as we (electe officials and others) do so, it doesn't matter if we use some or every possible outlet available - as insignificant as some may appear to be. No one ever made PEOPLE the official web site of Freehold Borough - not even me, one of the founders. We don't even know how many FB residents actually view the site and only the same handful participate regularly. It is nice to have h P-site around, but it is not essential to the functioning of the town. Freehold Borough survived 400 years without it and information still got commuicated throughout the town.I've still jumped in on a few - as you call them - "real issues" just to save you all from misinformation and ridiculous chatter that sometimes turns fertilizer into manure - deliberately or accidentally. And, when I do not participate here, there are, at least, three other methods of contact listed on each and everyone of my past posts. I am reachable by anyone 24x7. Just ask Joan Kress!!! 
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Post by Libyan Sibyl on Oct 16, 2007 9:20:12 GMT -5
Just a reminder of the mission statement of PEOPLE:
PEOPLE ( Pressing Elected Officials to Preserve Our Living Environment ) is a non partisan, quality of life group founded by several committed Freehold Borough residents in September 2003. We are primarily interested in the betterment of our home town and engage in live and on-line discussions about life in our historic and charming town.
PEOPLE supports responsive government, good schools, affordable property taxes, safe streets, better recreational opportunities, a thriving business district, historic preservation efforts, effective code enforcement and strong community relations to name a few concerns.
PEOPLE supporters can be found everywhere throughout the Borough, serving the town in many different ways, including on many municipal government advisory committees. We regularly attend open public meetings and actively participate as community watchdogs and grassroots activists for the residents of Freehold Borough. PEOPLE is also interested in considering issues from the "larger government" that effect us all in Freehold Borough. These include immigration, property tax reform, transportation, environment, and many other major public issues.
PEOPLE shares an open dialog with officials and residents from other town's, facing similar quality of life issues, to brainstorm effective ways to address local and regional issues.
PEOPLE is an important voice for the residents of Freehold Borough.
We encourage all Freehold residents to get out there and voice their opinions. Much is happening throughout our town, state, and country that concerns us. Progress in the right direction is the direct result of millions of people participating in our democracy.
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Post by admin on Oct 16, 2007 10:39:54 GMT -5
Great! But even Brian admitted to me, recently, that PEOPLE is dead as a group. There is no longer any active leadership or board meetings. Nor, has there been a live public meeting in over two years. For better or worse, what you have left is The Freehold Voice, which lives inside the frame of the old PEOPLE web site. We call this the P-site, and it can be great for the town, if it attracts a true cross section of the town, rather than so many right wingers and illegal immigration advocates. My dream was to have more Lauren Morris' here. She brought valid traffic issues (on her street) to the council via this board and her concerns were addressed without any condemnation and anger. This is how I envisioned this board working. When it does become that, you will find more of the resident types that are apparently missing from this board. Hey Marc, I have a swell idea, why don't we just ban the right wingers? |
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Post by Libyan Sibyl on Oct 16, 2007 10:57:00 GMT -5
Nah! Let's just encourage those from the left and the center. Now..there's a great challenge. What will it take to find and welcome them to the board? input from the candidates and the rest of town council. Or the feeling that if they question something they are not demonized or told they are part of some grand conspiracy. Or that if they post a problem, they can get some sort of response instead of being told they have to be more active in town. That they can remain anonymous without having their complaints and criticisms downplayed. And that people on this site build up the role of this site, instead of downplaying it when they feel it is not living up to their own personal expectations. There are many politically center people here. Don't let the frustrations with the borough that are seen here make you believe that anyone that disagrees with someone or takes them to task for their actions, that that person is automatically some sort of a radical. |
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Post by admin on Oct 16, 2007 11:36:57 GMT -5
9!!!!!  Thanks guys...and gals. Wasn't my Karma just 10? You mean I actually lose a point for posting on the board prior to November?  Only in America can an open and honest town councilman have his karma outscored, almost 3 fold, by someone named Libyan Sibyl. Geez!!!! You deserve no better than Matt Scanapieco!!!!  Talk about the Machine!!!  Take a look at Bersteiger! You won't feel so bad! ;D |
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Post by richardkelsey on Oct 16, 2007 11:37:46 GMT -5
Nah! Let's just encourage those from the left and the center. Now..there's a great challenge. What will it take to find and welcome them to the board? They are already welcome! They are the one's that elected to stop posting! Like I said a million times -- "the board" will be what people make of it. So, if 50 center left people sign-up and post on center left stuff -- or realize your dream of conversations on traffic and the such -- that is what it will be. If they don't, it will be a Board that reflects the opinions, ideas, ideals, biases, and agendas of those who choose to post. (As long as people post within the rules.) |
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Post by richardkelsey on Oct 16, 2007 11:45:57 GMT -5
I disagree with the tone of the site sometimes too. Like I said -- we can't completely control what people write, and how they feel.
The notion, however, that a blog is going to be a PR machine for positive news in a town or community is unrealistic. The overwhelming majority of people who participate on these types of sites are like the people who write letters to their Congressman -- they are people with a beef, a complaint, or occasionally, an idea they believe will address a problem they perceive. That is the human condition.
All those people you know who don't like the tone of the site -- they can log on and post happy stuff if they want -- and that will change most of the tone of the site. But like the average Congressman, no one is waiting for an avalanche of letters saying, "just thought I would drop you a note to say how good you are doing and how great things are in my district thanks to you."
We still live on earth -- after all.
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Post by richardkelsey on Oct 16, 2007 11:48:59 GMT -5
This thread gets crazier by the minute. It has taken m some time just to catch up on the various threads.
This is a first though! Marc, you quoted yourself here and then seem to take issue with it! LOL
You quoting you!
You responding to you:
Now -- having written what you have -- I must admit that it was me that called him the "attack puppy." I am sorry Marc if that rankled you -- but I took it remarkably easy on him based on his unprecedented false, inflammatory, wrong, silly, and immature comments that both impugned me personally and professionally. None of which I blame on you, because as you accurately point out, he is his own man. He is 26, and he can stand on his own. So, I purposely did not step into the parental breach because 1) I thought it not appropriate, and 2) I thought given our relationship there was no need to pour salt on wounds.
However, when one goes for the throat as his own man -- one must expect the victim to fight back. It is tough now for you to take umbrage with the counter attack, mild as it was -- while ignoring the frontal assault.
Again -- none of this has anything to do with the FB Human Relations Committee, Juan Reyes, or Freehold policy with respect to appointments and illegal immigration.
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Post by stffgpr2003 on Oct 16, 2007 11:55:11 GMT -5
You may find this a bit odd - but I'm mainly in agreement with you on this one.
As site, leaders, a better tone can be set. I'm not telling you not to post your own views - you write very well, by the way - and you enjoy the debates. But, also being the moderator sends the message that you are not as "neutral" as most moderators are.
I also know that people aren't exactly lining up for your role, but it would be better if there was a true moderator, who umpired the games rather than coached them. No personal offense to you, by the way. It's just the position you placed yourself in.
Marc
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Post by richardkelsey on Oct 16, 2007 13:00:31 GMT -5
I also talk to myself, sometimes...AND I SING IN THE SHOWER!!! I put the wrong quotes in the wrong place.Sorry. But, you astutel picked up on the point I was trying to make. I asked Steven to back off - just for that reason. He was getting out of control and others were following his tone - see how easy it is to ebb and flow in a blog? What Steven was really reacting to was the way that others were being demonized based on falsehoods - like myth of "the Machine." That was also an insult to me because it implies that I'm being controlled by others. In fact, you actually stated that I wasn't posting due to some outside control factors. It is not. Still there are no excuses for disrespect - here or anywhere. Steven is 26. Some of us are in our 40's and 50's and, hopefully, we know better. We all need to keep it real. When we don't, people get bent ot of shape. Well -- you certainly haven't been demonized by my hypothesis on why you and several posters friendly to the Mayor decided -- each on your own -- at the same time -- to stop posting on he site. Frankly, that hypothesis is not that outrageous. In addition, I later modified my stand on that to state that your decision may have been either the result of a friendly request, or the sense of obligation from your appointment. Either way -- the effect would be the same, of course. Is it your position that no member of the democrat party in Freehold suggested you stop posting, or hinted that posting on the site was bad for the election? (Suggested ranging from, "hey Marc why do you give those guys credibility" to "Marc, this probably doesn't help us -- and everything in between)? I don't think the myth of the Machine is a myth at all. How it operates is just old fashion politics. That happens in every single town. Just think -- If you were an outside political observer -- what would you think about the following facts: 1. Mayor and Council hold meeting and make presentations of good service and give awards to high profile -- well-deserving citizens in the October Council Meeting 2. An issue is raised about the residency, both legal and Borough residency on appointments to a controversial committee. 3. The Borough does not hold a public meeting in the Mid-October period -- height of campaign season. 4. The only member of the counsel that posts on the Board where the tough issue is raised decides not to post any more. 5. That person -- a former Republican gets his council seat by appointment of the Mayor and Council -- all dems, two up for election. 6. Other posters friendly to and with direct access to the Mayor also decide to stop posting to the site. 7. A poster on the site who had been silent re-emerges and begins a scorched earth posting binge personally attacking the site, its credibility, its moderators, and their credentials. 8. That poster is a political activist, a PR specialist, and the son of the Democrat Councilman who has stopped posting and who was appointed by the Mayor. 9. The democrat Mayor regularly monitors the site and that site monitoring had increased dramatically. Would you believe -- under those facts -- that some coordination, influence, discussion, or political efforts had been set in motion by a Mayor who has been in office for 22 years? Is that really an outrageous set of assumptions? It's politics. Plain and simple. Call it a machine -- call it what you want -- but that is how the game gets played at every level -- and you know it. All that happened was someone took the time to point it out to people who don't think about it that often. I definitely agree that this is not exactly the the Mayor Daily Chicago machine here. This is small time. And, frankly, as I have written before -- the Council in many ways lacks some political sophistication. But this is classic group politics. The goal is to ride out the storm -- use the party voting advantage -- and avoid any major negative coverage in an off year election. I get that. I am just saying that it strains credulity for anyone to suggest that posters on this site are somehow playing politics -- and the politicians are not playing politics at all. They are using every political experience and advantage they can to get re-elected. Speaking of that -- when is the first debate between the incumbents and the challenger? |
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Post by misterpr1981 on Oct 16, 2007 14:13:47 GMT -5
The tone is clearly influenced by the moderators on this site, and not for the better.
And I will give you a perfect example. I, and others, have posted on this site many of times about positive things in this town.
Because of this, I have been accused by "the suits" on this board of posting "happy stuff" rather than real stuff. Either that or no one comments. However, if I were to post something bitter about the town, it's always the same peanut gallery on here who jumps on the bandwagon.
It seems as if you only want to discuss angry issues and nothing else. If it doesn't fit with what you want to jive with, you either shape it to jive with your gospel or you hammer nails into the hands and legs of the poster for posting it.
I think you're using this board for your own PR.
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Post by richardkelsey on Oct 16, 2007 15:10:08 GMT -5
Ohhh..and by the way Rich. You're gonna love this one... The accusing poster is a former FB Republican council candidate, an attorney trained to convince juries, and the son of a former Republican Councilman, who has gone on the attack to help a current Republican candidate, even though he is also supposed to be the neutral Freehold Voice moderator. It cuts both ways. Checkmate. Marc ;D Typical politician. You lied. You said your last post on the other thread would be the end. Yes -- and before you declare checkmate -- don't forget that the same republican poster is a guy who helped you when your chestnuts were on fire. That's the great thing about not having to answer to any machine! Like I said earlier -- if I were running the GOP campaign in Freehold -- you would know about it. |
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Post by richardkelsey on Oct 16, 2007 15:14:54 GMT -5
The tone is clearly influenced by the moderators on this site, and not for the better. And I will give you a perfect example. I, and others, have posted on this site many of times about positive things in this town. Because of this, I have been accused by "the suits" on this board of posting "happy stuff" rather than real stuff. Either that or no one comments. However, if I were to post something bitter about the town, it's always the same peanut gallery on here who jumps on the bandwagon. It seems as if you only want to discuss angry issues and nothing else. If it doesn't fit with what you want to jive with, you either shape it to jive with your gospel or you hammer nails into the hands and legs of the poster for posting it. I think you're using this board for your own PR. I wish happy sold better too. I try to encourage it -- and I have said that some of my favorite parts of this Board are those issues. As you recall -- we mods do sometimes say really nice things about happy posts. freeholdvoice.proboards46.com/index.cgi?board=anythingfreeholdborough&action=display&thread=1188993420 |
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Post by misterpr1981 on Oct 16, 2007 20:40:56 GMT -5
I wouldn't exactly call the Freehold Voice a forum for debating. Not an effective one at least.
You have to remember...I converse with formidable powerbrokers and entertainment industry execs in Manhattan and LA almost every day. Small town Republican politicians are diminutive and not my forte. I have bigger fish to fry.
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Post by casualreader on Oct 16, 2007 21:12:11 GMT -5
People Dudes and Dudettes:
I, along with Kelso dude, was taken aback at the attacks against our organization by one of our co-founders, Councilman Levine dude.
When he was in deepest trouble with the Dominican community over his insensitive and hurtful remarks -- who stood with him?
Kelso dude and Casual Reader.
To now have Councilman Levine dude impugn this message board which is the life force, nay the life blood of our long suffering town is just wrong.
I request -- no I demand -- an apology from Councilman Levine dude for his frontal attack on the message board I love more than life itself.
Councilman Levine dude you know I have always been there for you but I cannot follow you to this dark place you are going.
Casually Defending PEOPLE
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Post by misterpr1981 on Oct 16, 2007 21:27:35 GMT -5
Casual Reader: Get a life.  |
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Post by casualreader on Oct 16, 2007 21:36:05 GMT -5
I hate it when we fight MrPR Dude can't we just get along?
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Post by misterpr1981 on Oct 16, 2007 21:58:16 GMT -5
I'm well aware of your games CR. I'm onto you. When you see a discussion that doesn't concern immigrants or your agenda, you immediately interject nonsense, hijacking the conversation and injecting your issue into it. It's not going to happen this time.
Now back to what I was saying...... anything else you say in this thread, if not on the same topic, is going to be ignored.
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Post by casualreader on Oct 16, 2007 22:09:06 GMT -5
Nothing gets by you MrPr |
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Post by misterpr1981 on Oct 16, 2007 22:35:32 GMT -5
CR -- Which High School did you go to? Just curious.
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Post by casualreader on Oct 17, 2007 7:29:15 GMT -5
MisterPrDude:
You asked me the following question -- "Which High School did you go to? Just curious."
I wish I could reveal this information to you but we both know I am a hunted man. After the Freydude and Senor Reyes, I am the most sought after man in Freehold.
I speak out against the injustices on all sides -- My goal is to save the borough.
I hear the whispers around town -- "Did you see what Casual wrote? How can he say that about all these powerful people? I hope he has a big life insurance policy?"
The only politician I ever believed in was your father -- Councilman Levine dude and look where that relationship has now gone? Disillusionment and agony.
Some day when things are right again in the borough I love I will reveal my identity to all. I can only pray that day comes sooner rather than later.
Casually a Storm is Brewing
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Post by Libyan Sibyl on Dec 5, 2007 10:24:21 GMT -5
going back through this thread, you will notice that Marc deleted many of his posts (but not all) - if you are a regular reader, you may remember some of them; if you are new, you will notice gaps and then people suddenly addressing Marc obviously in reply.
I have a good memory for which posts were deleted, do you?
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Post by admin on Dec 5, 2007 15:25:32 GMT -5
going back through this thread, you will notice that Marc deleted many of his posts (but not all) - if you are a regular reader, you may remember some of them; if you are new, you will notice gaps and then people suddenly addressing Marc obviously in reply. I have a good memory for which posts were deleted, do you? Just to clarify, Marc deleted his posts quite some time ago. This did not happen recently. |
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Post by novillero on Dec 6, 2007 0:02:21 GMT -5
going back through this thread, you will notice that Marc deleted many of his posts (but not all) - if you are a regular reader, you may remember some of them; if you are new, you will notice gaps and then people suddenly addressing Marc obviously in reply. I have a good memory for which posts were deleted, do you? Just to clarify, Marc deleted his posts quite some time ago. This did not happen recently. why would he delete his "honest answer" post? |
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adefonzo
Junior Member
If I can see further than some, it's because I have stood on the shoulders of giants
Posts: 308
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Post by adefonzo on Dec 6, 2007 9:30:52 GMT -5
perhaps there was an outside "Force" that "found his lack of faith disturbing" and persuaded him??  |
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Post by lisas84 on Jul 11, 2008 18:52:54 GMT -5
Exactly what is your point, Croque?
If you are trying to incite a flamewar against someone who is humbled and desires a new start to contribute, you will not be successful.
So, again, what is the point of your post?
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Post by richardkelsey on May 3, 2010 9:27:15 GMT -5
I also talk to myself, sometimes...AND I SING IN THE SHOWER!!! I put the wrong quotes in the wrong place.Sorry. But, you astutel picked up on the point I was trying to make. I asked Steven to back off - just for that reason. He was getting out of control and others were following his tone - see how easy it is to ebb and flow in a blog? What Steven was really reacting to was the way that others were being demonized based on falsehoods - like myth of "the Machine." That was also an insult to me because it implies that I'm being controlled by others. In fact, you actually stated that I wasn't posting due to some outside control factors. It is not. Still there are no excuses for disrespect - here or anywhere. Steven is 26. Some of us are in our 40's and 50's and, hopefully, we know better. We all need to keep it real. When we don't, people get bent ot of shape. Well -- you certainly haven't been demonized by my hypothesis on why you and several posters friendly to the Mayor decided -- each on your own -- at the same time -- to stop posting on he site. Frankly, that hypothesis is not that outrageous. In addition, I later modified my stand on that to state that your decision may have been either the result of a friendly request, or the sense of obligation from your appointment. Either way -- the effect would be the same, of course. Is it your position that no member of the democrat party in Freehold suggested you stop posting, or hinted that posting on the site was bad for the election? (Suggested ranging from, "hey Marc why do you give those guys credibility" to "Marc, this probably doesn't help us -- and everything in between)? I don't think the myth of the Machine is a myth at all. How it operates is just old fashion politics. That happens in every single town. Just think -- If you were an outside political observer -- what would you think about the following facts: 1. Mayor and Council hold meeting and make presentations of good service and give awards to high profile -- well-deserving citizens in the October Council Meeting 2. An issue is raised about the residency, both legal and Borough residency on appointments to a controversial committee. 3. The Borough does not hold a public meeting in the Mid-October period -- height of campaign season. 4. The only member of the counsel that posts on the Board where the tough issue is raised decides not to post any more. 5. That person -- a former Republican gets his council seat by appointment of the Mayor and Council -- all dems, two up for election. 6. Other posters friendly to and with direct access to the Mayor also decide to stop posting to the site. 7. A poster on the site who had been silent re-emerges and begins a scorched earth posting binge personally attacking the site, its credibility, its moderators, and their credentials. 8. That poster is a political activist, a PR specialist, and the son of the Democrat Councilman who has stopped posting and who was appointed by the Mayor. 9. The democrat Mayor regularly monitors the site and that site monitoring had increased dramatically. Would you believe -- under those facts -- that some coordination, influence, discussion, or political efforts had been set in motion by a Mayor who has been in office for 22 years? Is that really an outrageous set of assumptions? It's politics. Plain and simple. Call it a machine -- call it what you want -- but that is how the game gets played at every level -- and you know it. All that happened was someone took the time to point it out to people who don't think about it that often. I definitely agree that this is not exactly the the Mayor Daily Chicago machine here. This is small time. And, frankly, as I have written before -- the Council in many ways lacks some political sophistication. But this is classic group politics. The goal is to ride out the storm -- use the party voting advantage -- and avoid any major negative coverage in an off year election. I get that. I am just saying that it strains credulity for anyone to suggest that posters on this site are somehow playing politics -- and the politicians are not playing politics at all. They are using every political experience and advantage they can to get re-elected. Speaking of that -- when is the first debate between the incumbents and the challenger? I thought this thread was worth bumping -- big-time. Notice -- this thread asked the Reyes question 2 years ago! Out of the wood-work appeared every friend of the Mayor on a scorched earth mission. In fact, it was this thread and this subject that led the Machine into a foaming at the mouth, all out assault on the participants of this site. Since this thread -- one of the people giving advice and consent to the Mayor has been voted out. Another participant, a dem appointee and relative of a Council member was banned, for the third time. Posters left under pressure from the Machine -- and yet today the site is busy on a daily basis than it every has been before -- ever. The only thing still un-answered from this thread is, "did the mayor know Mr. Reyes was undocumented at the time he and the dems appointed him? If you want to read what really happened when the machine was challenged, start with this thread from the first post, and watch the vicious attacks and misdirection. AND -- the funniest thing about all this is, it was the site admin who said he actually didn't have a problem with appointing an illegal. Yet, by the middle of the thread, we were all anti-gay, anti-Hispanic, right-wing republicans out to destroy a mythical machine. So -- I ask the question again -- who appointed Reyes, and what did they know about Mr. Reyes besides the fact that he was a radical leftist open-borders advocate? Oh -- and its only May - so this is not the "silly season." |
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Thanks guys...and gals. Wasn't my Karma just 10? You mean I actually lose a point for posting on the board prior to November? 
