Who appointed Reyes???

[pricewepay]

I am new to this site but a long term resident of Freehold. A couple of observations I have made - misterpr1981 seems to be very angry - anyone he disagees with, he attacks personally. My advice is to base your arguments on facts not personal attacks.
If there is a question about Mr. Reyes being here legally, he can easily resolve this by providing a voter registration card, birth certificate or other proof of citizenship. Expecting this Mayor or Council to do anything proactive is ridiculous. The only person who had any vision was Kevin Coyne and now he is off the Council. I know Marc started PEOPLE, but all I read is Marc defending the Mayor. I guess I have my doubts about someone who was a Democrat, ran and was elected as a Republican, then went back to being a Democrat so he could get back on the Council.
My suggestion to all who think the politicians in Trenton or Freehold are doing a good job, is to vote to keep them in office. Those who think like I do, that they have failed in their responsibilities to the citizens of NJ, need to vote and get them out.
One last thought, anyone who travels around the country realizes that NJ is the laughing stock of the US. All you read about is the corruption of the politicians from both parties, high taxes and government increasingly running people's lives.

[casualreader]

PriceWePay Dude:

Why should Mr. Reyes furnish you or anyone else with any document? Are you going to request this of all appointees? It seems like there is a need for one standard.

Not one standard for white people and another for brown people.

Casually Undocumented

[Libyan Sibyl]

casualreader said:

PriceWePay Dude:

Why should Mr. Reyes furnish you or anyone else with any document? Are you going to request this of all appointees? It seems like there is a need for one standard.

Not one standard for white people and another for brown people.

Casually Undocumented

Casual, you should go back and read other threads in the Human Relations Adv. Comm. folder to understand the background on this particular thread.

In those other threads, you will find that other members were challenged based on their past history with the borough and questioning whether non-borough residents should sit on this committee.

Questions were posed as to several committee members. I do not believe that these discussions would be posed if Mr. Reyes was from Freehold Borough and not a member of Casa Freehold.

Should the borough appoint a day laborer, here legally, living in the borough and not affiliated with an organization that has been detrimental to the community as a whole, well... that would be another story.

Instead, it seems the borough council has legitimized what they have been speaking out against. This is a concern for many, maybe not to you.

But I am sure that you understand how some people may feel when they support someone who talked tough one way to get your support, then did something entirely different.

[richardkelsey]

casualreader said:

PriceWePay Dude:

Why should Mr. Reyes furnish you or anyone else with any document? Are you going to request this of all appointees? It seems like there is a need for one standard.

Not one standard for white people and another for brown people.

Casually Undocumented

Any policy requiring proof of legal residency and Borough residency should be -- and must be -- applied to all people.

[pricewepay]

Casual Reader - you replied to one point I made. If someone made false accusations about me, I would be jumping at the opportunity to prove them wrong. Especially in such a public setting. Also I am not a "dude". You have no idea what I am - black,White,Oriental,Hispanic,Indian,male,female, so keep the "dude" expression to yourself.

[Libyan Sibyl]

holly said:

casualreader said:

PriceWePay Dude:

Why should Mr. Reyes furnish you or anyone else with any document? Are you going to request this of all appointees? It seems like there is a need for one standard.

Not one standard for white people and another for brown people.

Casually Undocumented

so what if the appointment of mr. reyes was an honest and a simple attempt to help communcate to his community. i do not understand why you all share such distain for illegals. what if mr. reyes looked you directly in the face to say, "please I want your help, help me assimilate? how please?" stop panning the fellow, go to an HRC committee meeting. ask mr. reyes, the HRC, the mayor and council about the objective of the HRC and this controversial appointment. are you afraid of what the answer? what if the answer was, that he wants you to teach him how to assimilate into our american culture? what if he ask you to help him learn Bruce Springsteen songs, to understand American Football or ask how to deep fry turkey for thanksgiving? What if he asked you WHY IS APPLE PIE AMERICAN? and if mr. reyes cried with us all on sept. 11th, praised both ronald reagan and bill clinton and theodore rossevelt. ask mr. reyes if he thinks vincente fox had let him down or if he agrees that hugo chávez is an embarrassing jerk. the counterbalance to mr. reyes resigned from the hrc. why let fear shoot the messenger, you do not know the entire message yet.

LOL. Who is this? Tom Baldwin? Keep them coming. There is really no point arguing with you.

[Libyan Sibyl]

holly said:

libyansybil said:

LOL. Who is this? Tom Baldwin? Keep them coming. There is really no point arguing with you.

i will not argue. this is a problem on this board, you all argue and i communicate ideas.

yes, but you communicate incoherent ideas punctuated with misspelling so atrocious that they are almost undecipherable. For example, what does "promtious" mean? I cannot even figure out what your though was on this.

Further, your logic is dumbfounding. Are you actually saying that the appointment of an illegal alien to a borough committee is justified so that he can learn about apple pie and Bruce Springsteen? This is absurd.

You should re-read all of the posts on this topic, and there are several threads on it. They are not personal to Mr. Reyes, meaning that no one has maligned his character, rather issue has been taken with his objective qualifications. Three things have been observed as problematic with his appointment:

(1) an alleged illegal alien;
(2) a known member of Casa Freehold and LLA;
(3) a non-resident of the borough.

This man is not even a leader (in any community). Cecelia Reynolds is; Rev. McGuire is; no one ever heard of Mr. Reyes before this. And that is not to say he may not be qualified, but it does mean that he does not pass muster as a representative of the community or some leader of men.

I will reiterate that a legal citizen who resides in Freehold, regardless of ethnicity, should be the main qualifications for any position in the borough whether committee or most borough jobs. Of course, any appointment would be weighed with my other concern: that appointments should not be made to a member of an organization that has sued and protested against the borough. Casa Freehold is not a friend of the borough.

I think you mentioned Tom Baldwin on another thread. He is outspoken and comes out many many times against the council. I have heard him speak and have read his letters to the local papers. I do not agree with him at all. However, I do not think this man is anti-Freehold. In fact, I believe that he has good intentions. While I personally think he might be misguided in his thinking, he is a far superior candidate for this committee than someone with the qualifications being disputed.

[casualreader]

I am responding to LS Dudette and her last post on Senor Reyes.

My first question/observation is : How do you know he is not a leader of the immigrant community? I have never had the pleasure of sharing a taco with Reyes and I do not know anyone who is a member of Casa Freehold and I am willing to bet that neither do you.

One of the problems seems to be that the local government has done a terrible job of reaching out to the Mexican immigrants.

As respected as this message board is in we CANNOT select the immigrant leaders. If Casa Freehold and the dreaded LLA are organizations they trust then it seems we have to work with them.

The fact that those groups may have taken part in past litigation is old news -- How many times have many of you said it is time to look beyond the lawsuit?

I have taken the time to read the posts here and I still do not see where the accusation that he is an "illegal immigrant" came from. I have the sick feeling in my muscular stomach that it has to do with the fact that he is Mexican -- Otherwise, why would the assumption be that he is "illegal"? Who is alleging he is? Where do they get their information from?

As for out of towners serving on the boards and committees -- I do not see a problem with it, if they represent interests in the community. I am sure most of the business owners do not live in the borough or the police -- yet I am sure we want their input.

If some of the immigrant leaders representing the large immigrant community live outside the borough then they deserve a place at the table.

This message board is no place to decide on their leadership.

Casually Juan Reyes

[richardkelsey]

casualreader said:

I am responding to LS Dudette and her last post on Senor Reyes.

My first question/observation is : How do you know he is not a leader of the immigrant community? I have never had the pleasure of sharing a taco with Reyes and I do not know anyone who is a member of Casa Freehold and I am willing to bet that neither do you.

One of the problems seems to be that the local government has done a terrible job of reaching out to the Mexican immigrants.

As respected as this message board is in we CANNOT select the immigrant leaders. If Casa Freehold and the dreaded LLA are organizations they trust then it seems we have to work with them.

The fact that those groups may have taken part in past litigation is old news -- How many times have many of you said it is time to look beyond the lawsuit?

I have taken the time to read the posts here and I still do not see where the accusation that he is an "illegal immigrant" came from. I have the sick feeling in my muscular stomach that it has to do with the fact that he is Mexican -- Otherwise, why would the assumption be that he is "illegal"? Who is alleging he is? Where do they get their information from?

As for out of towners serving on the boards and committees -- I do not see a problem with it, if they represent interests in the community. I am sure most of the business owners do not live in the borough or the police -- yet I am sure we want their input.

If some of the immigrant leaders representing the large immigrant community live outside the borough then they deserve a place at the table.

This message board is no place to decide on their leadership.

Casually Juan Reyes

Casual:

While I do not agree with your conclusion -- I must comend you on a fine, substantive, objective, intelligent argument.

[novillero]

I think the problem is that they are the opportunities to answer the questions posted, and no answers are forthcoming. Many times the mayor has posted through others to clear up misconceptions, and it begs the question: why not now?

Causal does bring up good points that are worth debating. I, and it appears several others, think that local issues should be resolved by locals, and therefore it is my opinion that all appointments should be made available to locals first. When you look at the run down of those committees that require residency and those that don't, it really looks like no thought went into it. Perhaps the council will take these posts as an opportunity to review this (hopefully without formulating a new committee to do it - insert laughter here)

That we are lacking locals to serve may also be part of failing to make opportunities known to the community. How is someone to know that an athletic couch is needed if it is not advertised? It is obvious that the majority of the community is not politically involved, right?

But again - back to the main issue fo this thread and I know we are beating a dead horse here, Marc could have just answered the question, but he didn't. I think his silence is eerie, and Marc may think that it is not.

This board was also here to air grievances and discuss them. It just takes a simple answer to stop the webs of susupicion that are weaving out of control.

Numerous grievances have been addressed on this board, none like this, but they have been addressed and even brought to council. marc has informed us that this board has be instrumental in many things, but it is apparent that only certain grievances/criticisms are acceptable. And it looks like criticisms of appointments are not acceptable. That is a sorry state.

[croque monsieur]

Going through various posts, we see that Mr. Frank Freyre, whether on his own volition or not, was not going to be on the HR committee any longer. We also see that Frank Freyre suggested a day laborer be appointed to the HR committee. We see that Frank Freyre had meetings with Mayor Wilson and Kevin Kane about the latino community.

Frank Freyre and Juan Reyes are both LLA members. It would seems that Frank Freyre had the luxury of appointing his own successor.

[fbrepublican]

croquemonsiuer said:

Going through various posts, we see that Mr. Frank Freyre, whether on his own volition or not, was not going to be on the HR committee any longer. We also see that Frank Freyre suggested a day laborer be appointed to the HR committee. We see that Frank Freyre had meetings with Mayor Wilson and Kevin Kane about the latino community.

Frank Freyre and Juan Reyes are both LLA members. It would seems that Frank Freyre had the luxury of appointing his own successor.

You make a very valid point. Something is rotten in Denmark with this appointment. I will not go into the legal status of Juan Reyes. Based on what I see here, it has to be viewed as rumor at this point and I hesitate to opine on rumor.

That leaves us with the other two issues-- Reyes association with radical groups and where he lives. These two points alone make the appointment very suspect. Both of these points appear to be true.

By all appearances, it does seam that Frank Argote Freyre did indeed appoint his own successor. Considering Frank's track record and years hostility toward the good and lawful residents of our town, the Mayor and Kane have a bit to answer for here.

The other big question is with the multitude of illegals and day laborers swarming our streets and harassing our people, I find it very difficult to believe that the governing body could not find one who speaks English and lives in this town.

I will make a prediction as to how this will play out in the papers. The Mayor and Kane will give themselves a giant hug and pat on the back for ousting the troublesome Frank Freyre. They will spin it to make themselves look tough on the bad eggs and on the side of the good people of our town.

They will spin Juan Reyes as a very welcome addition and a person who cares and see the many sides of the issues. They will make him out to be a swell fellow. They will call this compromise and progress when in fact it is not.

We will never see answers as to why the governing body continues to entertain and address the radical groups who only care about themselves and a certain segment of the population.

We will never get a good answer as to why they could not find a day laborer who lives in this town and is not associated with radical groups.

We will never find out why the current people sitting on that HRC are not good enough to speak for the illegals, after all many of them are apologists. What will Juan offer that the rest can not? And we wonder why we hear nothing from that committee.

To borrow from and Asbury Park Press editorial, our town council has moxy.

We will get no answers from the governing body about this appointment. There are no good ones to offer.

The only conclusion I can draw here, is that the Mayor and council appointed a radical from out of town because they are on a short leash with the other end being held by Frank. That is not progress, compromise, or in the best interests of our town.

Kane made the recent accusation about radicals on both sides. If he is so caught in the middle why did he appoint one? Is this how he handles himself under duress?

What would Ted do?

[misterpr1981]

You know who also has moxy? A candidate who bashed the whole town council, rather than just their opponent. This is a case of sour Republican grapes, and I think you have proven that already.

Don't get me wrong, Ted is a great guy and has a lot of good ideas, but since when did this become a VOTE TED Web site? Last time I checked I thought that this was a non-partisan, non-candidate-specific Web site.

There's way too much bashing and endorsing going on here. It has become a very negative site and a campaign fueled by negativity and anger, instead of positivity, and I think that not only is it not classy to run a campaign like that, but town residents are not going to want to come on this board anymore, and I think that's already starting to show.

[Libyan Sibyl]

I never got where pointing out how you differ from candidates is wrong, or how pointing out a candidates voting history is something that cannot be delved into.

Anyway, I think if you look at the posts that Ted has not posted much or too often, especially on these HR-related threads. Maybe because he is restraining himself, or maybe because he doesn't have to because other people other than Ted want answers.

You have bashed the president and the republican party, haven't you? And I would say more aggressively and in more bitter nasty words than what has gone on her. Should your comments be self-censored? No, and no one has suggested such.

Here in FB, people have asked for answers, and are forced to conjecture about what is really going on. The posters know that someone has the simple answers, and there are numerous people that read this board that can just answer it, but they don't. The mayor, we know, reads this board and has posted answers to it before (remember the 2nd restaurant offense, he posted through councilman Levine). The mayor and councilman Kane can do that now, but they don't. This fact has been pointed out numerous times. If you call asking questions "bashing," than I guess it is. This is an election year and I would think they would want to clear the air. and only they can, you know.

Lastly, I never claimed to be a republican. Brian alleges he isn't (and I have my doubts that he is really a libertarian). I seem to remember an article where Ted claims to be a "republican democrat" or a "democrat republican," or something like that. (Didn't he switch parties to run in the past? I don't remember, sorry if I am posting this as an "allegation" but since this is a casual message board, I am sure someone can clear that up - so Ted don't accuse me of "bashing" by asking a question - and I know you are reading this, so don't pretend you haven't..) So, I don't think all of your republican conspiracies are valid.

Anyway, happy birthday. And know that the world is not really against you even though somedays it seems like it is. Cheer up.

[admin]

misterpr1981 said:

You know who also has moxy? A candidate who bashed the whole town council, rather than just their opponent. This is a case of sour Republican grapes, and I think you have proven that already.

Don't get me wrong, Ted is a great guy and has a lot of good ideas, but since when did this become a VOTE TED Web site? Last time I checked I thought that this was a non-partisan, non-candidate-specific Web site.

There's way too much bashing and endorsing going on here. It has become a very negative site and a campaign fueled by negativity and anger, instead of positivity, and I think that not only is it not classy to run a campaign like that, but town residents are not going to want to come on this board anymore, and I think that's already starting to show.

Steve,

This is not the vote Ted website. He has his own blog for that and in case you haven't noticed, Ted has become very quiet here. I resent that you would indicate otherwise. I have tried hard to get others to participate here. They have CHOSEN not to. That is their choice. I even opened up a board for the candidates and only the candidates. I have made this offer to the Mayor. And yet, silence. That is their choice and I can respect it.

This is a nonpartisan site. That does not mean that participants have to keep their choices and opinions to themselves. Where are the supporters for the Dems? They are welcome here and it is not my fault if they remain silent.

You talk about the negativity as if it is a bad thing. Did it occur to you that people have concerns? I would expect elected leaders to want to hear these things. You have to put it in context.

You mention people not wanting to come here, well I have news, the site has attracted more visitors than usual as of recent. Between the election and the Reyes appointment, it appears we do have a strong interest in this site.


Now, Steve, I have to address you. For a while you have become quite the hostile person. Your own tone has taken a nose dive. I know that you have strong views and passion, both of which I respect. But, you do yourself no favors with the constant attacks in which you have employed. I know you hate Republikkkans, religion and any that disagrees with you, but you do yourself no favors with the rabid attacks you use.

I know you better. I know you are capable of better. Instead of taking the low road and attacking all that you disagree with, why don't you do what you have done in the past and put your own views up?

Even better, seek out information and stories on the other candidates besides Ted. That would be VERY welcome! That would give us balance.

Somewhere else Casual Reader was wondering about both Sims and Kane. It is a good question. I know Sims a bit, but very little about Kane. Why don't you fill in that void?

In other words, help out and be a part of the solution. Don't be such a Debbie Downer.

[misterpr1981]

First of all, Libyan, thank you for the birthday wishes..

Brian and Libyan--

First of all, when people on here are constantly posting negative things about the mayor and council, such as concocting huge conspiracies (which are ridiculous) about things the mayor is doing, etc., then that is really bashing. And to be honest, if I were being bashed on a Web site that seems to endorse only one candidate, I wouldn't post on there either. You ask him to come on here and post, but that is what the council meetings are for. When those council meetings occur every two weeks, I rarely see any of you expressing your views or asking questions there. So I'm wondering if it's just easier for you to attack people on this site since they aren't face to face with you.

Also, it's one thing for Ted and others to go after the candidate they are going against. It's another for one candidate to take on the whole town's council and mayor. That takes a lot of hubris. And as I said, I like Ted. I have nothing against him, but it seems as if this has really turned into a site of a handful of people who constantly try to push Ted and his candidacy down everyone else's throats. It needs to be more of a neutral Web site.

You ask me to express my own views, but are those only views that you agree with? I've expressed my views on here quite frequently in the past, but I'm attacked violently for them. No, not in rational terms, but anger and hostility. Some have posted hostile things to me and for some reason are still allowed to post and had no edits made.

You also may say that it's an equal Web site, but the fact of the matter is, those in charge of this site, or who have the most power, are the conservative/right-leaning moderators or posters. There is no representation from the left-wing side at all in terms of being moderators or anything. I wouldn't mind as much if you, Brian, were the only moderator on here as your views usually seem to be more neutral, but people like Rich, cannot seem to conduct themselves in a professional fashion. When I see him posting large rants about the mayor and his "machine," I wonder how this ISN'T considered a right-wing, partisan Web site.

I just see so much hate on this Web site. Hate of hispanic people, gay people, liberal people, etc. It needs to change.

[admin]

misterpr1981 said:

First of all, Libyan, thank you for the birthday wishes..

Brian and Libyan--

First of all, when people on here are constantly posting negative things about the mayor and council, such as concocting huge conspiracies (which are ridiculous) about things the mayor is doing, etc., then that is really bashing. And to be honest, if I were being bashed on a Web site that seems to endorse only one candidate, I wouldn't post on there either. You ask him to come on here and post, but that is what the council meetings are for. When those council meetings occur every two weeks, I rarely see any of you expressing your views or asking questions there. So I'm wondering if it's just easier for you to attack people on this site since they aren't face to face with you.

Also, it's one thing for Ted and others to go after the candidate they are going against. It's another for one candidate to take on the whole town's council and mayor. That takes a lot of hubris. And as I said, I like Ted. I have nothing against him, but it seems as if this has really turned into a site of a handful of people who constantly try to push Ted and his candidacy down everyone else's throats. It needs to be more of a neutral Web site.

You ask me to express my own views, but are those only views that you agree with? I've expressed my views on here quite frequently in the past, but I'm attacked violently for them. No, not in rational terms, but anger and hostility. Some have posted hostile things to me and for some reason are still allowed to post and had no edits made.

You also may say that it's an equal Web site, but the fact of the matter is, those in charge of this site, or who have the most power, are the conservative/right-leaning moderators or posters. There is no representation from the left-wing side at all in terms of being moderators or anything. I wouldn't mind as much if you, Brian, were the only moderator on here as your views usually seem to be more neutral, but people like Rich, cannot seem to conduct themselves in a professional fashion. When I see him posting large rants about the mayor and his "machine," I wonder how this ISN'T considered a right-wing, partisan Web site.

I just see so much hate on this Web site. Hate of Hispanic people, gay people, liberal people, etc. It needs to change.

Now that is the Steve we know and love. I do not agree with all your conclusions, but your tone makes you that much more credible and good to have here.

I do want to clarify something. That is your concern about moderators. I can understand what you mean, but I have to be fair. When I asked Rich to take on the task, I did not put a muzzle on him. I would not. He is his own person and like everyone else here is entitled to participate as long as he follows the guidelines.

I have no regrets about having Rich as a mod. He has been a great help.

I, on the other hand, am a different story. Please take not that I do not endorse candidates for Borough positions on this site. I did not do that last year and I will not do it this year.

Believe it or not, I try to use a great deal of restraint in my opinions. That is because I do not want to create the perception that this site is for people who only think one way.

And, believe it or not, I am happy that even Casual Reader is signed on with us. I often do not agree with him, and I know he is a wee bit irate over his ban, but he does provide balance. I wish that Zeus would sign up!

[richardkelsey]

misterpr1981 said:

I wouldn't mind as much if you, Brian, were the only moderator on here as your views usually seem to be more neutral, but people like Rich, cannot seem to conduct themselves in a professional fashion.

Are you doing comedy now? Go back and re-read the posts you wrote.

Like I said before -- the site is what people make of it. If conservatives chose to post here -- I suspect it will be more conservative. If liberals chose to post here -- it will be liberal. If the topics stay off politics, it won't have as big a political bent.

There is no question that those choosing now to post articles and opinion run the gamut from yourself and casual, to Begsteiner. We can't do anything about people who elect not to post.

Follow the rules and post away. Just be warned that the rules include no character assassinations. (I didn't write those rules -- but I did just re-read them again)

[admin]

stffgpr2003 said:

It needs to be more of a neutral Web site.

Steven -

You have forced me to post, addressing yours and other's recent remarks. We've already talked about this face to face, but you still choose to psssssss into the wind.

Steven, though you have grown up in a family that has experienced the "silly season" more than a few times, you are not remembering the kind of political shenanigans that get played out, by some, this time of year and not just here in Freehold Borough. It gets ugly before it gets pretty again. But, the residents ultimately decide the election outcome based on how they actually feel about the town and not how they are told to feel about it. Give the voters a little more credit. When have you or anyone in our family every voted blindly? Most of those we know also scrutinize all the relevent information before casting their votes in any election.

Steven, people want to win elections and, for two or three months each year, their passions often get the best of them and their supporters. Often, they are willing to make themselves look ridiculous to gain a small handful of votes. And...this is exactly what is still wrong with American politics in 2007.

It's right here in front of us all the time. Just look at the crap being thrown back and forth between Karcher and Beck and Panter and O'Scanlon. It seems as if everything, but the key issues, are being slugged out in front the media. People really get turned off and start to think - "here we go again." Same S--t, different election!

What ARE any of those four going to do for Freehold Borough, anyway? What can we expect from them to help our town rid itself of illegal immigration? How much more money will they get us for our schools AFTER THEY ARE ELECTED? Or, is it more important to know where one of them sent her campaign mailings from? This really matters to the Borough...right?

Years ago, there were no Internet blogs. Political foes faced down their opponents and everyone knew exactly who was saying what and also knew where the opposition stood - especially in Freehold Borough. This is a new age. On a board like this, it's like CGI in the movies. One poster can use 5 IPs and various handles and seem like an army of residents.

Or, what is really a small "circle jerk" can be made to seem like a landsliding campaign, either way. Since we often don't know who is really posting, can we blindly accept their messages?

This is the Internet folks! Home to credit card fraud, identity theft child molestors, for gosh sakes! It's like compairing the New York Times to the Weekly World News (before the latter went out of business). I hope that few weigh this board heavily as a vote decision maker. Most should separate the wheat from the chaff before going to the polls.

The P-site is far from NBC Decison2007 especially with Casual Reader and Libyan Sybil at the helm. And...we may love Rich Kelsey and Steven LeVine but, let's face it, neither of you are Tim Russert or George Will.

The local candidates just need to get their messages out there by traditional means and to heck with the People board deciding anything in a town of our small size. Freehold Borough elections are still most often decided in Tony's Grill, at Fed's, at St. Rose, at the fire house, at the PTO, at council meetings and in people's living rooms an in front of their homes.

I just feel especially bad for residents like Lauren Morris', who came to this board to meet fellow residents and to feel good about her town. So far, her introduction has included - on the one hand - the myth of powerful "political machines" that supposedly influence her life in town and -on the other hand - warnings that anyone who posts here is a bigot or white supremist. Neither is true. Some introduction to Freehold Borough, huh?! No wonder she has fallen silent and others may not even visit here.

This year's election is less than a month away. The board will do what it wants and will have to accept the consequences. Posters will use it as they prefer and say what they wish to say. I just hope that some extra thought goes into the fact that with each new thread, the public relations of our town ebbs and flows. The site, by way of its archives, has a very long memory and that memory can come back to haunt a small town long after the last poster signs off and moves on.

Steven, it is best for you and others who object to what is being written on this blog pull back for awhile and let the current posters direct their own destinies.

At this time of the year I have learned that there is little chance to reason with the politically rabid and, often, the best defense for those with virgin ears is a well oiled "pooper scooper," latex gloves and a bio-respirator.

You are right Marc, must be that seasonal disorder. People are really happy. No concerns to really gripe about. Schools couldn't be better, illegal immigration is the best thing to happen to us and the elected leaders of this town have made all the right decisions.

Once the election is over we can go back to holding hands and singing kumbaya.

Nope, no problems in this town. No solutions either. Let's just dismiss al the debbie downers. They can't possibley have any real point. Can they?

[Libyan Sibyl]

Marc, I've avoided asking the question to you, but let me address you personally.

What did you know about the Reyes appointment and when?

Quit with your little games and just answer the question. Is he illegal, and why would you appoint someone who is a member of Casa Freehold?

It's funny that for years you would field things on this bulletin board, and you would relay things back and forth for the mayor, but now you refuse to address this one issue. Now you reply but you intentionally skirt the one issue.

This board was good for you when it was all cheers for you, but when it asks a legitimate question that you and the mayor don't like (for whatever reason), the board is full of malcontents.

You have posted that the internet is the way things are getting done, and politicans are going to have to get used to this format. But when posed with this question, this is not the way things will ever be done, huh?

When you don't like the questions, you tend to downplay this format. You make snipey comments about posters, or the anonymous nature of the board. (I'm sure you and the mayor would like to know what people are saying about them. Well, now it's not behind your backs, it's right here for you to see).

You also posted about the good this board has done and has helped you personally formulate ordinances and brought up topics that wouldn't normally get addressed. You like the anonymous tiplines in town, but take umbrage when someone posts an anonymous question about a political appointment. I'm sure you have questioned the president's appointments, why can't we question the appointments the mayor and council make? The fact is, all appointments are legitimate questions for the residents to pose.

I hope people do wiegh this board. I hope they look at the comments others make, weight it with their satisfaction or frustrations. And I hope the mayor and town council don't rely on the short memories of the voters.

So, I'll ask you again, and I don't know why this question is so hard for someone to answer who actually voted on it:

What did you know and when?

[misterpr1981]

But Brian, there is a difference between constructive criticism and providing solutions and rabid ferocity against certain people. Wouldn't you agree?

I don't see any logical, rational solutions coming from this site anymore. I just see bashing going back and forth.

[Libyan Sibyl]

Thank you for your honest answer.

[stffgpr2003]

You have posted that the internet is the way things are getting done, and politicans are going to have to get used to this format. But

And the posters are going to have to get used to eating static when they misuse and abuse the privledge. Yes, it is a privledge. No one says any elected official has to be accountable to any particular blog. We just have to be open and honest with the people we represent in respectable forums.

You think I feel the need or responsibility to post on every skinhead or far left or far right wing site that might call me out? No way! But, I will post on the responsible sites that will converse with respect rather than ire.

[fiberisgoodforyou]

misterpr1981 said:

First of all, Libyan, thank you for the birthday wishes..
this has really turned into a site of a handful of people who constantly try to push Ted and his candidacy down everyone else's throats. It needs to be more of a neutral Web site.

Stephen - I have been trying not to "get into it" here,

Honestly this boro needs , an in-person, up close and personal lively public debate from the candidates, but for the moment I will chime in on your comments above....

It is possible that this is reality, what you read here, and this is indicative of the overall discontent among the electorate, so our boro voters are looking for choices and this is the year they get a real opportunity?

When you can get past your Personal "FB Voice Mr PR, PR Spin Campaigning" that you have been engaging in here, you know the truth too!

Boro Voters have NOT has a fresh new council member candidate, that represented a GOOD chance for positive change in the last 10 years plus years.

in fact I bet the "Old Guard" on the council would like nothing better than to see our youngest and brightest run up to grab the baton, and to do so without following the usual chain of ascension does take MOXY, thank you!

There are more citizens out there like me. Libs and Conserv., Reps and Dems. One goal of mine is to prove that new blood exists. There are people who are passionate about this home town were they had been born, as well, Freehold Boro is the hometown for many others who have CHOSEN Freehold Boro for their children to be born and raised in an atmosphere of a FIRST CLASS QUALITY OF LIFE. We all can make the positive advances by reaching out to build on our past, celebrate our diverse lives, share our common culture, and learn from our collective heritages that make us different individuals, yet united as a community.

At the very least, I'm just the messenger and for the majority of Borough optimists, I am a catalyst for renewal. If I say more, I'll be campaigning here, so I will stop for now.

I'll Summarize with a software technology analogy, lets plan for the newest version of our Freehold Boro Council and the greater community, lets all work together and build Freehold Borough Version 2.0, release date NOV 6th. 2007!!!
WILL YOU JOIN ME!

Stephen... am not a proponent of anonymous cyber web debates (sorry CR) . You know how to reach me, please lets plan to TALK further!

Cheers.

[richardkelsey]

Mark the Board is better when you post -- and since you and me and Andrew are the only people posting under our own names, at least people know what they get here from us.

Just a few fair points from me regarding your post.

... you are not remembering the kind of political shenanigans that get played out, by some, this time of year and not just here in Freehold Borough.

While not directed at me, I thought I would say that I do know the shenanigans that get played out in towns like Freehold and across the country. I pointed that out in my original post. I don't think the game of politics is somehow confined only to the challengers. I think it gets played expertly by incumbents country-wide, including Freehold. No one credibly thinks that the incumbents make no political moves in election season.

On a board like this, it's like CGI in the movies. One poster can use 5 IPs and various handles and seem like an army of residents.

With this, I must take issue. We strongly monitor the IP addresses of posters. Could a poster who has registered have two IP addresses -- work and home. Maybe. But we have an excellent handle on this issue. As you know -- the over-whelming majority of people banned from the site were banned for violating this exact rule.

The local candidates just need to get their messages out there by traditional means and to heck with the People board deciding anything in a town of our small size. Freehold Borough elections are still most often decided in Tony's Grill, at Fed's, at St. Rose, at the fire house, at the PTO, at council meetings and in people's living rooms an in front of their homes.

This sounds nice. And, I agree that votes in Freehold can be found and earned -- door to door and in the places you address.

However -- you and I know that candidates get the voter lists -- by party -- and walk those houses, mail those houses, and work people by party -- not by issue. We also know -- you as a Republican running with our departed friend John, and now as a democrat, that 80% of voters vote by party affiliation, and that in Freehold the Democrats start with an enormous election advantage that can almost never be beaten -- absent a ground swell local issue. (Like the tax revaluations that swept you and John into office.) That is reality. Studies show the "average" American spends 7 minutes a week on national political issues. They cannot even measure time spent on local issue.

Often, they are willing to make themselves look ridiculous to gain a small handful of votes. And...this is exactly what is still wrong with American politics in 2007.

With this I agree -- and I don't think you were directing this at anyone here. (In which case I would not agree)

Steven, it is best for you and others who object to what is being written on this blog pull back for awhile and let the current posters direct their own destinies.

With this -- I completely disagree. With voter participation expected to barely reach 30% in this local election -- why would anyone discourage discussing the issues of a town in a local forum? Why not discuss the issues where every one can? Why not try to energize new voters and participants? The only reason to end debate and discussion is to fall back and count on running out the clock and taking advantage of political party advantages -- rather than debating issues and ideals. As you said, candidates need to get the vote out the "traditional" way. Does this include some scheduled debates? It should.

One poster on here said -- incumbents don't debate. Well -- why not? They should be just as accountable, should they not?

Brian has opened two new threads for candidates to use to debate or post the issues they have of concern. Anyone can read them. Why wouldn't people want to get their message out in every possible free forum?

The only chill to free political speech on this site -- so far -- has been the decision by some former posters -- most aligned personally and politically with the Democrat party -- to stop participating.

I think ending open, free, fair, civil, political debate is a bad idea.

I hope that few weigh this board heavily as a vote decision maker. Most should separate the wheat from the chaff before going to the polls.

Why? I agree that if people want to throw out any opinion I have on a local issue -- they should. (I have conceded that previously). Not Freehold resident's view on this board matters? Is it really all chaff?

And...we may love Rich Kelsey and Steven LeVine but, let's face it, neither of you are Tim Russert or George Will.

The Country would be better off if it were being influenced not by either -- but by Tim's dad, Big Russ instead.

[cheryl]

richardkelsey said:

With this, I must take issue. We strongly monitor the IP addresses of posters. Could a poster who has registered have two IP addresses -- work and home. Maybe. But we have an excellent handle on this issue. As you know -- the over-whelming majority of people banned from the site were banned for violating this exact rule.

Actually, unless they are paying an extra fee for one, Verizon DSL users (not sure about FIOS, I can't afford it) in Freehold Borough do not have a fixed IP and can change their IP address at will.

[misterpr1981]

Fiber said: "In fact I bet the "Old Guard" on the council would like nothing better than to see our youngest and brightest run up to grab the baton, and to do so without following the usual chain of ascension does take MOXY, thank you!"

Who said I want to grab the baton? I'm a city boy and moving to Manhattan or LA when I get the chance. I'm not sticking around in Freehold forever. It will always be my hometown, but I have things to see, people to do. I mean.....

Now onto Rich....

Rich, you know I think you're a smart man, but the one thing that I hope you take into consideration is how you come across to others. When you post, instead of sounding like you are offering your thoughts, you come off sounding as if you own the board and that your thoughts are the final say. You may accuse me of the same thing, but I would classify my posts as more indignant than angry.

As far as the IP addresses go...you can say that you monitor them, but who's to say that you don't allow people with your own viewpoints, or from your party, to make multiple names and people from other viewpoints to not. We've already seen evidence of this.....people like Cloris posting obscene, hateful posts about certain groups of people and being allowed to get away with that. However, when people of the other side were disagreeing with her, they got edited or deleted for saying one curse word. I think that hate is MUCH worse than a little curse word anyday. The machine is hard at work on this Web site!! There is a LOT of stuff going on behind the scenes that many of us I'm sure do not know about.

[admin]

cheryl said:

richardkelsey said:

With this, I must take issue. We strongly monitor the IP addresses of posters. Could a poster who has registered have two IP addresses -- work and home. Maybe. But we have an excellent handle on this issue. As you know -- the over-whelming majority of people banned from the site were banned for violating this exact rule.

Actually, unless they are paying an extra fee for one, Verizon DSL users (not sure about FIOS, I can't afford it) in Freehold Borough do not have a fixed IP and can change their IP address at will.

Cheryl,

You are right and believe me the site tracking is not perfect. We do the best with what we can though.

Also, with the FIOS, I saved money between the televison, computer and phone. Lots of it.

[richardkelsey]

cheryl said:

richardkelsey said:

With this, I must take issue. We strongly monitor the IP addresses of posters. Could a poster who has registered have two IP addresses -- work and home. Maybe. But we have an excellent handle on this issue. As you know -- the over-whelming majority of people banned from the site were banned for violating this exact rule.

Actually, unless they are paying an extra fee for one, Verizon DSL users (not sure about FIOS, I can't afford it) in Freehold Borough do not have a fixed IP and can change their IP address at will.

I completely agree that IP monitoring is not perfect. It is the only tool we have, and we have not yet seen any indication of the type of sophisticated effort you outline.

[Libyan Sibyl]

misterpr1981 said:

Fiber said: "In fact I bet the "Old Guard" on the council would like nothing better than to see our youngest and brightest run up to grab the baton, and to do so without following the usual chain of ascension does take MOXY, thank you!"

Who said I want to grab the baton? I'm a city boy and moving to Manhattan or LA when I get the chance. I'm not sticking around in Freehold forever. It will always be my hometown, but I have things to see, people to do. I mean.....

Now onto Rich....

Rich, you know I think you're a smart man, but the one thing that I hope you take into consideration is how you come across to others. When you post, instead of sounding like you are offering your thoughts, you come off sounding as if you own the board and that your thoughts are the final say. You may accuse me of the same thing, but I would classify my posts as more indignant than angry.

As far as the IP addresses go...you can say that you monitor them, but who's to say that you don't allow people with your own viewpoints, or from your party, to make multiple names and people from other viewpoints to not. We've already seen evidence of this.....people like Cloris posting obscene, hateful posts about certain groups of people and being allowed to get away with that. However, when people of the other side were disagreeing with her, they got edited or deleted for saying one curse word. I think that hate is MUCH worse than a little curse word anyday. The machine is hard at work on this Web site!! There is a LOT of stuff going on behind the scenes that many of us I'm sure do not know about.

MrPR,

As to the whole Cloris affair, I kept silent because of the absurdity of the posts. I am sure that others did too. I kept hoping that you would ignore her too. But you replied and that made it into an argument between the 2 of you. I don't remember what her offensive post was exactly so I can't comment on it. After a few back and forths, I just refrained from reading those threads.

I think you have been bitter about it since. I don't think you should have. I think you should shrug it off, and get to posting other things. It seems that this incident still dominates your thinking here.

Another thing, you are probably going to have to put up with these sort of posts, or direct anti-homosexual contacts for much of your life. I take offense at being lumped in some sort of anti-this or anti-that group. You will remember that I nominated you to be the president of the FCP, and I was wholeheartedly supporting the posts about ensuring a gay-friendly town. At the end of the day, I think you will find the same attitude about gays as other groups. No one cares unless that group is causing problems or shoving something in their faces.

I still think you should fly the equality flag, as that is what you want. The rainbow flag, well, I am not sure what that means except for exclaiming that you are gay. The equality flag says a lot more, and can be flown by anyone.

But, ha-ha on a different note, you plan on leaving Freehold, so I think you should be a little less harsh on Rich for him posting on his hometown's affairs....