Marc Le Vine must go!

[adefonzo]

For my part, Brian, I have to say I am glad you wrote what you wrote. Not because I have any personal animosity towards Marc, because I don't. I'm glad you wrote what you wrote because it's important (I feel) for people to stand up to falsehoods and untruths and call out those who are trying to spread them.

You and I have certainly disagreed in the past when it came to your consistent support for the Mayor and Town Council. In fact, I might even argue that your claim about Marc's "wait and see" approach (which, in my opinion, applies to the entire governing body in Freehold Boro), is the same approach you took with the Mayor and Council. You were always willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to do the right thing, and even I will admit that there have been a number of occasions where they have done good things...I would be a liar and a fool not to admit that. However...when it comes to saving their own reputation and when it comes to maintaining their grip on the power they all so lustfully cherish...no one is immune from their venom.

One of the problems with politics in our town (heck, with most politics nowadays) is that all too often, people don't deal with the facts. It's much easier to attack someone's character and personality that it is to deal with the facts. Personally, I have always believed that those who resort to the attacks on someone's character do so because they can't argue the facts with them...either because they don't know what the facts are, or because they do know and they know they can't win that argument. So, they resort to slander, lies, and exaggerations to keep the focus away from the real issues.

Don't get me wrong...a person's character (I believe) should be a factor when a voter is choosing who they want leading and representing them. But when people start in with the lies and the misdirection to try and shine a bad light on someone...that's when it's gone too far.

Typically, I am not the type of person to say I told you so, but having witnessed the tactics of our local leaders and their network, I am not surprised in the least that this has happened. I have witnessed it first hand, and was myself at the receiving end of some of the nonsense in the past. While I am sure it stings on a personal level, you have to rise above it and move on.

Brian, I hope that now your eyes are open. I believe you will still continue to support the Mayor and the Council, and that's certainly your right to do so. I know that on a personal level, you will continue to do all that you can to try and make Freehold a better town to live in. Just remember, stick to the facts, because in the end, that is where the truth is found.

[biker79]

Of us that are NOT democrats, I have this to offer
Congrats to John and Sharon!!!! Do your best and remember that you were elected by the people and can be unelected by the people as well. Remember those that put you where you are in all your decisions.
To Mr.Levine, Thank you for your years of service to our community and any effort to make Freehold a better place to live.
To Mr. Miller, You put up a good, dignified campaign, and had lots of good ideas for Freehold. I'm sure you'll have opportunities in the future to look forward to.
I , as a Republican, do not expect Mr Levine to give a consession speech, or take any walk down a hall of shame as another poster had asked Ted Miller to do if he lost, but to go out with dignity. People will remember you by your last actions in office. and again, thank you.

[admin]

Nov 4, 2009 6:24:51 GMT -5 adefonzo said:

For my part, Brian, I have to say I am glad you wrote what you wrote. Not because I have any personal animosity towards Marc, because I don't. I'm glad you wrote what you wrote because it's important (I feel) for people to stand up to falsehoods and untruths and call out those who are trying to spread them.

You and I have certainly disagreed in the past when it came to your consistent support for the Mayor and Town Council. In fact, I might even argue that your claim about Marc's "wait and see" approach (which, in my opinion, applies to the entire governing body in Freehold Boro), is the same approach you took with the Mayor and Council. You were always willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to do the right thing, and even I will admit that there have been a number of occasions where they have done good things...I would be a liar and a fool not to admit that. However...when it comes to saving their own reputation and when it comes to maintaining their grip on the power they all so lustfully cherish...no one is immune from their venom.

One of the problems with politics in our town (heck, with most politics nowadays) is that all too often, people don't deal with the facts. It's much easier to attack someone's character and personality that it is to deal with the facts. Personally, I have always believed that those who resort to the attacks on someone's character do so because they can't argue the facts with them...either because they don't know what the facts are, or because they do know and they know they can't win that argument. So, they resort to slander, lies, and exaggerations to keep the focus away from the real issues.

Don't get me wrong...a person's character (I believe) should be a factor when a voter is choosing who they want leading and representing them. But when people start in with the lies and the misdirection to try and shine a bad light on someone...that's when it's gone too far.

Typically, I am not the type of person to say I told you so, but having witnessed the tactics of our local leaders and their network, I am not surprised in the least that this has happened. I have witnessed it first hand, and was myself at the receiving end of some of the nonsense in the past. While I am sure it stings on a personal level, you have to rise above it and move on.

Brian, I hope that now your eyes are open. I believe you will still continue to support the Mayor and the Council, and that's certainly your right to do so. I know that on a personal level, you will continue to do all that you can to try and make Freehold a better town to live in. Just remember, stick to the facts, because in the end, that is where the truth is found.

Andrew,

A lot of people are happy I wrote that. I am going to start this off on a different foot though. One post popped up on this thread that is worth looking at. It comes from lisas:

Oh, Brian! I so wish you had not done this. This is called collateral damage because you and Marc have become such good friends of mine. Marc and his lovely family have become an extension of my own. And you and Kelly have become really good friends to me too. This hurts me because I really wanted you and Marc eventually to be able to patch up and become at least cordial again.

Brian, I do understand you felt personally slighted. But I would have strongly implored you to work it out one on one with Marc. Even if you both had to curse, yell, scream, throw a plate across the room! I so wish you didn't take this to the Internets. You and Marc had enjoyed a really nice friendship for a long time, and you both enjoyed hearty friendly debates on some key issues where you both had different points of views and belief systems. I know Marc really enjoyed his conversations with you through the past few years. He had so much respect for you and you both had a kindred interest in bettering the town.

I was hoping that there would be a day when you two could have patched things up to a degree. But I really fear that with these postings that will never happen. And that saddens me deeply.

Lisa's post drives home a very important point. I lost a friend this election cycle. It is never a good thing or something I am proud of. I started this election off with three friends and one councilwoman who I respect running for council. To like all four was something I was happy with.

Early in the year, both Ted and Marc thought I would be supporting the other side. I told both of them that it is amusing that everybody else has picked a side for me but me.

We got to the point we did because of Marc. All I ever tried to do was something to make our town proud. A waited a while, but I wrote the above post a couple of days before posting it. I was not sure if I would. I am owed an apology. I waited as long as I could. An apology or atonement after election day would have been useless to me. Marc took us down this road so I decided to give him a little kick in his rear end. I have no regrets. Friends should not throw each other under the bus for political gain, especially in a small town.

Here is the kicker, Andrew, and you will think I am nuts. I am still not an anti governing body person. I still believe in working together. I still believe that "unity in our community" is vital. I still have high regards for Sharon and Jaye. I still have no opinion either way for Kane or Dibenedetto.

I still believe that the people who run are our friends and neighbors and that elections in our town should be dignified. People on opposing sides should be able to go to the Court Jester the day after the election, drink a beer together, and look each other in the eye with mutual respect. We should be prepared to work together for the betterment of the town. Our town has enough problems without the wrong people becoming divided for the wrong reasons.

Yes, I have the la la land glasses on and clearly the ideals I believe in do not always work out. Andrew, you have every right to say " I told you so".

[Mike Rosseel]

"I , as a Republican, do not expect Mr Levine to give a consession speech, or take any walk down a hall of shame as another poster had asked Ted Miller to do if he lost, but to go out with dignity. People will remember you by your last actions in office. and again, thank you."

Come on Biker be fair. First off in the last few years that ted lost did he ever take that walk? answer is 100% no. Ted broke the tradition that many many people have done for years, so now that a dem lost, now were gonna bash them for not doing what ted hasnt dont for years, come on, get real! marc gave a speech lastnight that was very classy. He wished luck to John Newman in front of all his dem. faithful. Marc walked away lastnight not as a sore loser but as a classy man. I have been a "r" all my life and i have heard all the negative talks about the freehold dems, let me tell you from first hand experience, they arent what everyone makes them out to be. I am extremely impressed with the freehold dems more then even i could imagine! I wish John Newman all the best, i think he will do an excellent job. Ask Mr Newman if i came to the Rep county party lastnight to personally congradulate him, answer is YES!

[adefonzo]

Nov 4, 2009 19:17:49 GMT -5 Mike Rosseel said:

"I , as a Republican, do not expect Mr Levine to give a consession speech, or take any walk down a hall of shame as another poster had asked Ted Miller to do if he lost, but to go out with dignity. People will remember you by your last actions in office. and again, thank you."

Come on Biker be fair. First off in the last few years that ted lost did he ever take that walk? answer is 100% no. Ted broke the tradition that many many people have done for years, so now that a dem lost, now were gonna bash them for not doing what ted hasnt dont for years, come on, get real! marc gave a speech lastnight that was very classy. He wished luck to John Newman in front of all his dem. faithful. Marc walked away lastnight not as a sore loser but as a classy man. I have been a "r" all my life and i have heard all the negative talks about the freehold dems, let me tell you from first hand experience, they arent what everyone makes them out to be. I am extremely impressed with the freehold dems more then even i could imagine! I wish John Newman all the best, i think he will do an excellent job. Ask Mr Newman if i came to the Rep county party lastnight to personally congradulate him, answer is YES!

Let me start by saying that Freeholdboy, I don't know you from Adam...but I think your post above is a perfect example of people with differing opinions reading something and coming up with 2 different ideas of what was intended.

Your post makes it appear that you think biker79, who I also don't know from Adam, was somehow disrespectful towards how he thought Marc would go out. In particular, it's the highlighted sentence above that raises questions.

You read it as a slight towards how Marc would leave office, I see it as biker saying that he expects Marc to go out with dignity...which is hardly a slight against him at all.

This is what causes probably 95% of the arguments on this site...people reading things differently.

[adefonzo]

Brian, I agree whole heartedly that people should be able to work together in governing, go down to the Jester and have that beer, be able to cross "party lines" to do the right thing and so on and so on. The difference between us is that you have faith that it will happen in our town with our governing body, and I don't.

I know, I know...I'm a terrible person for saying this, and I obviously want nothing but failure and misery for the Democrats in town because of my consistent questioning of them. I'm a right wing hate monger who hates anyone who's not lily white and upper middle class or above (even though I am not in either of those categories). I'm a bigot, a racist, a malcontent...I've heard it all before...and unfortunately I've seen it come from the folks on our governing body.

Dredging up the past isn't always the right thing to do, but sometimes you just have to put out the reminders.

Brian...do you recall a year ago when, just after the election, Rich's letter appeared in the Transcript with some not so nice things to say about our Mayor? I know you do. Do you remember the slew of letters that came after that one, doing everything possible to discredit Rich for his letter? I know you remember that also...but the question is do you remember who those letters came from? Marc Levine, Jaye Simms, Sharon Shutzer, and Mike Wilson (along with a former councilwoman as well). And this was just one instance of such responses.

Your ideals are sound, Brian, it's just your faith in the people currently in charge that I have to question.

Remember, it's not just up to one side to reach across the aisle. In fact, as the party that is firmly in charge, I would expect more outreach from them...but that's just one man's opinion.

As I have said in the past, there are certainly those council members that I have no issue with and actually think could be great leaders if given the opportunity. Unfortunately, the stranglehold that has been on this town for the last number of years has not allowed any real co-operation between the different sides.

[ka19]

Events that unfolded on the internet in the past month between Marc and Brian are very regrettable.

As someone who holds them both in the highest regards, I want to express my hope that, despite some hard feelings from events of the past month, both men continue to graciously give their time and talents for the betterment of the borough.

The town recently tried to hold a Volunteer Fair, which was rained out on two separate dates. It would have been a great opportunity to tap into new talent in the borough and continue to build an outstanding, but small, community of generous volunteers and public servants. Instead, the Fair was rained out and here we are on the brink of losing the efforts of two of the relatively few people in town who genuinely care about Freehold and have the energy to do something about it--all because of politics. It is a very deflating result.

And this is not a disrespect to John Newman, another man who I know, like and trust. He was elected and, I agree with the sentiments that Marc himself has expressed in these days following the election, he is a class act who has the ability to do a very good job for the Borough.

Republicans and democrats....we are a team. Kansas City Chiefs head coach Todd Haley recently posted a sign in his locker room that read "Losers assemble in small groups and complain about the coaches and other players. Winners assemble as a team and find ways to win."

In my view Marc and Brian are both winners and I very much expect and look forward to our great community of generous volunteers and public servants, including Marc and Brian, to unite as a team. We need everyone's help.

[richardkelsey]

Nov 5, 2009 10:56:17 GMT -5 ka19 said:

Events that unfolded on the internet in the past month between Marc and Brian are very regrettable.

As someone who holds them both in the highest regards, I want to express my hope that, despite some hard feelings from events of the past month, both men continue to graciously give their time and talents for the betterment of the borough.

The town recently tried to hold a Volunteer Fair, which was rained out on two separate dates. It would have been a great opportunity to tap into new talent in the borough and continue to build an outstanding, but small, community of generous volunteers and public servants. Instead, the Fair was rained out and here we are on the brink of losing the efforts of two of the relatively few people in town who genuinely care about Freehold and have the energy to do something about it--all because of politics. It is a very deflating result.

And this is not a disrespect to John Newman, another man who I know, like and trust. He was elected and, I agree with the sentiments that Marc himself has expressed in these days following the election, he is a class act who has the ability to do a very good job for the Borough.

Republicans and democrats....we are a team. Kansas City Chiefs head coach Todd Haley recently posted a sign in his locker room that read "Losers assemble in small groups and complain about the coaches and other players. Winners assemble as a team and find ways to win."

In my view Marc and Brian are both winners and I very much expect and look forward to our great community of generous volunteers and public servants, including Marc and Brian, to unite as a team. We need everyone's help.

This election is a big test for your idea of working together.

Andrew's post are interesting, because he points out that Brian stood by the Mayor and Council for so long -- and Marc, trying to work with them and hope they would take a pro-active effort to change the town through bi-partisan cooperation.

I did the same thing -- for years before that. Yes, have I been a vocal critic of the Mayor for more than two decades -- you bet.

But when the Mayor called me and asked for my help -- I came to that aid -- free of charge. I brought with me considerable resources and firepower.

So this town has plenty of examples of dems, republicans, independents, and outsiders and insiders working together when the goals are to serve the best interest of the town.

The problem has been, that when it comes to securing elections and power, bipartisanship ends. Now, it is one thing to run an election and draw contrasts -- it is another thing to blatantly lie, duck responsibility, avoid accountability, spit in the face of democracy and fair debate, and throw personal friends under a bus for political gain. That's not politics. That's machine politics driven by the interest of the few over the many. it is exactly what has happened across NJ in both parties, where entrenched fiefdoms rule towns, counties, and agencies, at the expense of New Jerseyans.

Remember a year or two ago when a poll said 60% of people in New Jersey wanted to move out. What the poll should have included was -- the other 40% want new people to move in and keep supporting them.

Chris Christie is right -- the culture of NJ politics has to change. NJ needs to strip the culture of patronage, it needs to elevate service, streamline government, and reward bipartisanship. None of that can happen unless entrenched power brokers make the first steps to change their means and methods.

In Freehold -- the time is now for Mayor Wilson to take that step. He needs to show bipartisanship. He needs to set a new tone. When one is in the minority, reaching across the isle is a necessity -- not a virtue. When one is in complete control of the political and administrative apparatus of government -- reaching across the isle is both a virtue and the mark of leadership.

The actions moving forward need to be about Freehold -- not about party, individuals, patronage, power, or payback. That is the message I think NJ voters were screaming at the polls.

Let's see who wants to lead that change.

[admin]

Nov 5, 2009 7:26:27 GMT -5 adefonzo said:

Brian, I agree whole heartedly that people should be able to work together in governing, go down to the Jester and have that beer, be able to cross "party lines" to do the right thing and so on and so on. The difference between us is that you have faith that it will happen in our town with our governing body, and I don't.

I know, I know...I'm a terrible person for saying this, and I obviously want nothing but failure and misery for the Democrats in town because of my consistent questioning of them. I'm a right wing hate monger who hates anyone who's not lily white and upper middle class or above (even though I am not in either of those categories). I'm a bigot, a racist, a malcontent...I've heard it all before...and unfortunately I've seen it come from the folks on our governing body.

Dredging up the past isn't always the right thing to do, but sometimes you just have to put out the reminders.

Brian...do you recall a year ago when, just after the election, Rich's letter appeared in the Transcript with some not so nice things to say about our Mayor? I know you do. Do you remember the slew of letters that came after that one, doing everything possible to discredit Rich for his letter? I know you remember that also...but the question is do you remember who those letters came from? Marc Levine, Jaye Simms, Sharon Shutzer, and Mike Wilson (along with a former councilwoman as well). And this was just one instance of such responses.

Your ideals are sound, Brian, it's just your faith in the people currently in charge that I have to question.

Remember, it's not just up to one side to reach across the aisle. In fact, as the party that is firmly in charge, I would expect more outreach from them...but that's just one man's opinion.

As I have said in the past, there are certainly those council members that I have no issue with and actually think could be great leaders if given the opportunity. Unfortunately, the stranglehold that has been on this town for the last number of years has not allowed any real co-operation between the different sides.

Andrew, I certainly do understand a lot more of what you have always said. I have learned a lot more than i wanted to. And again, you have every right to say I told you so. I know that you and your father both got involved with the town and I am sure you could tell some stories.

I do remember Rich's letter well. That lit one hell of a fire. Both that and recent examples back up what you have always said about sticking to facts. Certain others simply cannot do that. Believe me when I say, what the public saw was nothing compared to what went on behind closed doors.

I also agree with you that there are certain council members who I have no issue with either. The real problems are actually a very small group.

[admin]

Nov 5, 2009 10:56:17 GMT -5 ka19 said:

Events that unfolded on the internet in the past month between Marc and Brian are very regrettable.

As someone who holds them both in the highest regards, I want to express my hope that, despite some hard feelings from events of the past month, both men continue to graciously give their time and talents for the betterment of the borough.

The town recently tried to hold a Volunteer Fair, which was rained out on two separate dates. It would have been a great opportunity to tap into new talent in the borough and continue to build an outstanding, but small, community of generous volunteers and public servants. Instead, the Fair was rained out and here we are on the brink of losing the efforts of two of the relatively few people in town who genuinely care about Freehold and have the energy to do something about it--all because of politics. It is a very deflating result.

And this is not a disrespect to John Newman, another man who I know, like and trust. He was elected and, I agree with the sentiments that Marc himself has expressed in these days following the election, he is a class act who has the ability to do a very good job for the Borough.

Republicans and democrats....we are a team. Kansas City Chiefs head coach Todd Haley recently posted a sign in his locker room that read "Losers assemble in small groups and complain about the coaches and other players. Winners assemble as a team and find ways to win."

In my view Marc and Brian are both winners and I very much expect and look forward to our great community of generous volunteers and public servants, including Marc and Brian, to unite as a team. We need everyone's help.

ka19, your always too quiet. Speak up more!

You are right, it is all regretable. Silly season is over, but we all have open doors to walk through if we choose.

If Marc is smart, he will take some much deserved time to himself and his family, for at least a little while. Without question, he did dedicate a lot of himself to this town. We all know him, he will find wome way to get involved with the town again. He does love the borough. Nobody can question that.

The same goes for me. I am taking time to myself due to all that has happened, including spending way too much time at hospitals with close family members. But, I will get involved with something. Municipal committees are a lot fo fun, but they are not the only way to make a positive difference.

Also, I know that you guys and gals on the CIC are about to release some great things. I am sure next yer you will also do a great job with the volunteer fair.

[biker79]

Nov 5, 2009 6:35:02 GMT -5 adefonzo said:

Nov 4, 2009 19:17:49 GMT -5 Mike Rosseel said:

"I , as a Republican, do not expect Mr Levine to give a consession speech, or take any walk down a hall of shame as another poster had asked Ted Miller to do if he lost, but to go out with dignity. People will remember you by your last actions in office. and again, thank you."

Come on Biker be fair. First off in the last few years that ted lost did he ever take that walk? answer is 100% no. Ted broke the tradition that many many people have done for years, so now that a dem lost, now were gonna bash them for not doing what ted hasnt dont for years, come on, get real! marc gave a speech lastnight that was very classy. He wished luck to John Newman in front of all his dem. faithful. Marc walked away lastnight not as a sore loser but as a classy man. I have been a "r" all my life and i have heard all the negative talks about the freehold dems, let me tell you from first hand experience, they arent what everyone makes them out to be. I am extremely impressed with the freehold dems more then even i could imagine! I wish John Newman all the best, i think he will do an excellent job. Ask Mr Newman if i came to the Rep county party lastnight to personally congradulate him, answer is YES!

Let me start by saying that Freeholdboy, I don't know you from Adam...but I think your post above is a perfect example of people with differing opinions reading something and coming up with 2 different ideas of what was intended.

Your post makes it appear that you think biker79, who I also don't know from Adam, was somehow disrespectful towards how he thought Marc would go out. In particular, it's the highlighted sentence above that raises questions.

You read it as a slight towards how Marc would leave office, I see it as biker saying that he expects Marc to go out with dignity...which is hardly a slight against him at all.

This is what causes probably 95% of the arguments on this site...people reading things differently.

Freeholdboy, this was no shot at mark levine, rather a shot at a previous post in this thread that disrespected ted miller.
Whoever looses a campaign should congratulate the winner and wish them luck, thats all.
Someone had suggested that ted, john, and brian all take a walk of shame after they loose the election. My point is that I would not stoop to that level, by suggesting that mark do this since he lost to john.
Suggesting such a thing sounds childish, hence I would not suggest it, as a previous poster had.
I actually thanked mark for his service, and was very respectful of him. Did you actually read my whole post? Please read it again, and I think you'll see my point
Thanks