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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Sept 25, 2008 8:13:17 GMT -5
Joint Statement of Senator John McCain and Senator Barack Obama
"The American people are facing a moment of economic crisis. No matter how this began, we all have a responsibility to work through it and restore confidence in our economy. The jobs, savings, and prosperity of the American people are at stake.
"Now is a time to come together - Democrats and Republicans - in a spirit of cooperation for the sake of the American people. The plan that has been submitted to Congress by the Bush Administration is flawed, but the effort to protect the American economy must not fail.
"This is a time to rise above politics for the good of the country. We cannot risk an economic catastrophe. Now is our chance to come together to prove that Washington is once again capable of leading this country."
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Post by novillero on Sept 25, 2008 8:37:53 GMT -5
Joint Statement of Senator John McCain and Senator Barack Obama "The American people are facing a moment of economic crisis. No matter how this began, we all have a responsibility to work through it and restore confidence in our economy. The jobs, savings, and prosperity of the American people are at stake. "Now is a time to come together - Democrats and Republicans - in a spirit of cooperation for the sake of the American people. The plan that has been submitted to Congress by the Bush Administration is flawed, but the effort to protect the American economy must not fail. "This is a time to rise above politics for the good of the country. We cannot risk an economic catastrophe. Now is our chance to come together to prove that Washington is once again capable of leading this country." I think this statement was missing a few things, like, "Neither of us, John McCain or Barrack Obama have a clue about how to fix this crisis. However, we will focus on small items that will make people feel better about the bailout but will have no significant impact on anything, anywhere at anytime. We will first focus on the golden parachutes by corporate executives which represents a minute fraction of the hundreds of billions we will be giving out in the proposed Investment Banker Buyout Act.
As all Americans are aware, there was a recent housing bubble. The free market has tried to correct this bubble, which has cause housing prices to go down. What we propose to do is to try to reinflate this bubble. No matter how big the hole in that bubble is, we both support blowing hot air into that hole.
Of course, if we do nothing, there will be a short term financial mess as the markets continue to correct themselves. We propose to prolong the financial crisis through several other measures, including spending money we don't have and printing more money. We will also ban short sales, or at least make them much more onerous. As the public may be aware, investors involved in short sales are betting that a stock is over-valued. Both candidates propose keeping stocks at overvalued levels. It means more money, right?
In addition, there is a housing crisis. Loans werre given out to people who could not afford those loans. In fact, legislation was passed to ensure that bad loans would be given out. We propose to make sure that these bad loans continue well into the future. Any market correction would be harmful to people who can not afford those loans now, and to those same people who will not be able to afford them later. We propose that selfish Americans who diligently only buy for what they can afford, that these people be neighborly and support their fellow Americans who buy things they cannot afford. It is patriotic and the right thing to do.
Lastly, we favor further market manipulation of interest rates. We need credit to be extended at artificially low rates so that market bubbles may continue to exist. A lot of money was made through the housing bubble, and we can anticipate future bubbles where people can make a lot of money without any thought as to whether this will be paid back in spades.
Therefore, we ask for your support. In return, we will raise your taxes and continue with government spending on several underfunded overblown social programs. We pledge to fight about future social programs that we also cannot afford." I am Novillero and I approve of this message. |
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Sept 25, 2008 11:46:12 GMT -5
Joint Statement of Senator John McCain and Senator Barack Obama "The American people are facing a moment of economic crisis. No matter how this began, we all have a responsibility to work through it and restore confidence in our economy. The jobs, savings, and prosperity of the American people are at stake. "Now is a time to come together - Democrats and Republicans - in a spirit of cooperation for the sake of the American people. The plan that has been submitted to Congress by the Bush Administration is flawed, but the effort to protect the American economy must not fail. "This is a time to rise above politics for the good of the country. We cannot risk an economic catastrophe. Now is our chance to come together to prove that Washington is once again capable of leading this country." I think this statement was missing a few things, like, "Neither of us, John McCain or Barrack Obama have a clue about how to fix this crisis. However, we will focus on small items that will make people feel better about the bailout but will have no significant impact on anything, anywhere at anytime. We will first focus on the golden parachutes by corporate executives which represents a minute fraction of the hundreds of billions we will be giving out in the proposed Investment Banker Buyout Act.
As all Americans are aware, there was a recent housing bubble. The free market has tried to correct this bubble, which has cause housing prices to go down. What we propose to do is to try to reinflate this bubble. No matter how big the hole in that bubble is, we both support blowing hot air into that hole.
Of course, if we do nothing, there will be a short term financial mess as the markets continue to correct themselves. We propose to prolong the financial crisis through several other measures, including spending money we don't have and printing more money. We will also ban short sales, or at least make them much more onerous. As the public may be aware, investors involved in short sales are betting that a stock is over-valued. Both candidates propose keeping stocks at overvalued levels. It means more money, right?
In addition, there is a housing crisis. Loans werre given out to people who could not afford those loans. In fact, legislation was passed to ensure that bad loans would be given out. We propose to make sure that these bad loans continue well into the future. Any market correction would be harmful to people who can not afford those loans now, and to those same people who will not be able to afford them later. We propose that selfish Americans who diligently only buy for what they can afford, that these people be neighborly and support their fellow Americans who buy things they cannot afford. It is patriotic and the right thing to do.
Lastly, we favor further market manipulation of interest rates. We need credit to be extended at artificially low rates so that market bubbles may continue to exist. A lot of money was made through the housing bubble, and we can anticipate future bubbles where people can make a lot of money without any thought as to whether this will be paid back in spades.
Therefore, we ask for your support. In return, we will raise your taxes and continue with government spending on several underfunded overblown social programs. We pledge to fight about future social programs that we also cannot afford." I am Novillero and I approve of this message.Looking at the speech make one truly wonder what the heck is not being publicly disclosed, what are we truly on the brink of ...,other then 4 years of a new administration stuck with a domestic agenda so overbearing that we will be forced to abandon valuable foreign policies that present a POSSIBILITY OF A tragic national security event such that we have yet to see on our soil?  Or is this a jointly brokered partisan election year stunt?  anyway, IF there is 750 Billion dollars doled out, it MUST be secured with an equity interest to the taxpayers to that there will be a guarantee return on our investment, not just more bad money chasing more bad money. Ohh and these CEO's all must agree to careful federal investigation of corporate wrong doing, no plea bargains and, NO golden "parasite" (lol) packages either. Taxpayers need not take it on the chin so a CEO can get this 20 Million dollar salary plus bonus money...., its called (sacrifice) Executive Patriotic Duty coming from the highest levels of our "Captains of Industry" who have lead this ship a ground. How about funding there this with specific "Economic Recover Bonds" like war bonds from the 40's. later ! |
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Post by novillero on Sept 25, 2008 12:08:31 GMT -5
Looking at the speech make one truly wonder what the heck is not being publicly disclosed, what are we truly on the brink of ...,other then 4 years of a new administration stuck with a domestic agenda so overbearing that we will be forced to abandon valuable foreign policies that present a POSSIBILITY OF A tragic national security event such that we have yet to see on our soil? Or is this a jointly brokered partisan election year stunt? anyway, IF there is 750 Billion dollars doled out, it MUST be secured with an equity interest to the taxpayers to that there will be a guarantee return on our investment, not just more bad money chasing more bad money. Ohh and these CEO's all must agree to careful federal investigation of corporate wrong doing, no plea bargains and, NO golden "parasite" (lol) packages either. Taxpayers need not take it on the chin so a CEO can get this 20 Million dollar salary plus bonus money...., its called (sacrifice) Executive Patriotic Duty coming from the highest levels of our "Captains of Industry" who have lead this ship a ground. How about funding there this with specific "Economic Recover Bonds" like war bonds from the 40's. later ! You present three points: (1) an economic meltdown will draw attention away from the possibility of a foreign or terroristic attack; (2) Americans should have some equitable interest in the bailout; (3) no golden parachutes. My responses. (1) We are in a hundred year war in Iraq which will also bankrupt us. The Iraqis have voiced that they no longer want us there and we should move out. As to Afghanistan - that country hasn't seen peace in 1000 years and we think we can win peace there? Are we fighting abroad to minimize the possibility or probabilty of an attack on us? Why not just secure our borders since the attack will not be from a country but from a couple of nut jobs? (2) Why would anyone want an interest in something that has no equity? This is bad money chasing bad money! And why should the federal government be an insurer of this alleged bad conduct? Everyone is now lining up for a bailout, and doesn't teach the valuable lesson of being smart with money. If your kids were out there being reckless with money, would you just reimburse their losses, or let them suffer and learn from their mistakes? What kind of behavior are you fostering if you always reimburse people for reckless behavior? (3) Who cares about frigging golden parachutes? this is like fiddling while Rome is burning. There are bigger fires than federal fiddling with private contracts. |
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Sept 25, 2008 13:47:17 GMT -5
Looking at the speech make one truly wonder what the heck is not being publicly disclosed, what are we truly on the brink of ...,other then 4 years of a new administration stuck with a domestic agenda so overbearing that we will be forced to abandon valuable foreign policies that present a POSSIBILITY OF A tragic national security event such that we have yet to see on our soil? Or is this a jointly brokered partisan election year stunt? anyway, IF there is 750 Billion dollars doled out, it MUST be secured with an equity interest to the taxpayers to that there will be a guarantee return on our investment, not just more bad money chasing more bad money. Ohh and these CEO's all must agree to careful federal investigation of corporate wrong doing, no plea bargains and, NO golden "parasite" (lol) packages either. Taxpayers need not take it on the chin so a CEO can get this 20 Million dollar salary plus bonus money...., its called (sacrifice) Executive Patriotic Duty coming from the highest levels of our "Captains of Industry" who have lead this ship a ground. How about funding there this with specific "Economic Recover Bonds" like war bonds from the 40's. later ! You present three points: (1) an economic meltdown will draw attention away from the possibility of a foreign or terroristic attack; (2) Americans should have some equitable interest in the bailout; (3) no golden parachutes. My responses. (1) We are in a hundred year war in Iraq which will also bankrupt us. The Iraqis have voiced that they no longer want us there and we should move out. As to Afghanistan - that country hasn't seen peace in 1000 years and we think we can win peace there? Are we fighting abroad to minimize the possibility or probability of an attack on us? Why not just secure our borders since the attack will not be from a country but from a couple of nut jobs? (2) Why would anyone want an interest in something that has no equity? This is bad money chasing bad money! And why should the federal government be an insurer of this alleged bad conduct? Everyone is now lining up for a bailout, and doesn't teach the valuable lesson of being smart with money. If your kids were out there being reckless with money, would you just reimburse their losses, or let them suffer and learn from their mistakes? What kind of behavior are you fostering if you always reimburse people for reckless behavior? (3) Who cares about frigging golden parachutes? this is like fiddling while Rome is burning. There are bigger fires than federal fiddling with private contracts. #1 - "Why not just secure our borders since the attack will not be from a country but from a couple of nut jobs?" Do you know this for a fact? Are you willing to go "All-In" on that bet. National intelligence was proven ineffective on Sept 11, and with weakened economy and the most serious funding issues since the 1930's you feel national security will be better over the next few years?. Novi, all you need is one or two nuts to hack into a failing stock market or US Dept of Treasury system next week (and far from outside our boarders), using sophisticated malicious computer algorithms that can potential cause further financial turmoil. There are A LOT of very industrious highly skill computer engineers in SO. Asia Novi. Its 2008, you cant just think of conventional insurrection, think out of the Box like the "enemies of America" that would love to kick you in the head with steel toe boots when your down on the floor. Regarding #2, is it not practical to reinforce the troubled institution, and punish the executives who had abused and manipulated their way to gluttonous bloated wealth through " irresponsible-speculative" practices? #3 about the golden parachutes...This is the time to take action on this corporate idiom. If the ship goes down, the Captain goes down with it. If this credo was in place today there would be much more serious attention paid to ACCOUNTABILITY for your "Ships" performance, of there for lack of, al'la the Captain of the Titanic, Cptn Smith. Many of these CEO deserve to go down with the ships.The CEO effectively is the product and JAIL to those who's products are poisoned. The result will be a new bread of ACCOUNTABLE EXECUTIVES. There needs to be a rethinking of the corporate Measure for "Profitability" that addresses both the best interests of the share holders and the society we thrive in. We see today that neither the Share holders nor the sociological best interests have not been well served by these "Captain of Industry", and we must "Nose up out of our economic tail spin" |
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Post by novillero on Sept 25, 2008 14:08:15 GMT -5
You present three points: (1) an economic meltdown will draw attention away from the possibility of a foreign or terroristic attack; (2) Americans should have some equitable interest in the bailout; (3) no golden parachutes. My responses. (1) We are in a hundred year war in Iraq which will also bankrupt us. The Iraqis have voiced that they no longer want us there and we should move out. As to Afghanistan - that country hasn't seen peace in 1000 years and we think we can win peace there? Are we fighting abroad to minimize the possibility or probability of an attack on us? Why not just secure our borders since the attack will not be from a country but from a couple of nut jobs? (2) Why would anyone want an interest in something that has no equity? This is bad money chasing bad money! And why should the federal government be an insurer of this alleged bad conduct? Everyone is now lining up for a bailout, and doesn't teach the valuable lesson of being smart with money. If your kids were out there being reckless with money, would you just reimburse their losses, or let them suffer and learn from their mistakes? What kind of behavior are you fostering if you always reimburse people for reckless behavior? (3) Who cares about frigging golden parachutes? this is like fiddling while Rome is burning. There are bigger fires than federal fiddling with private contracts. #1 - "Why not just secure our borders since the attack will not be from a country but from a couple of nut jobs?" Do you know this for a fact? Are you willing to go "All-In" on that bet. National intelligence was proven ineffective on Sept 11, and with weakened economy and the most serious funding issues since the 1930's you feel national security will be better over the next few years?. Novi, all you need is one or two nuts to hack into a failing stock market or US Dept of Treasury system next week (and far from outside our boarders), using sophisticated malicious computer algorithms that can potential cause further financial turmoil. There are A LOT of very industrious highly skill computer engineers in SO. Asia Novi. Its 2008, you cant just think of conventional insurrection, think out of the Box like the "enemies of America" that would love to kick you in the head with steel toe boots when your down on the floor. Regarding #2, is it not practical to reinforce the troubled institution, and punish the executives who had abused and manipulated their way to gluttonous bloated wealth through " irresponsible-speculative" practices? #3 about the golden parachutes...This is the time to take action on this corporate idiom. If the ship goes down, the Captain goes down with it. If this credo was in place today there would be much more serious attention paid to ACCOUNTABILITY for your "Ships" performance, of there for lack of, al'la the Captain of the Titanic, Cptn Smith. Many of these CEO deserve to go down with the ships.The CEO effectively is the product and JAIL to those who's products are poisoned. The result will be a new bread of ACCOUNTABLE EXECUTIVES. There needs to be a rethinking of the corporate Measure for "Profitability" that addresses both the best interests of the share holders and the society we thrive in. We see today that neither the Share holders nor the sociological best interests have not been well served by these "Captain of Industry", and we must "Nose up out of our economic tail spin" (1) you proved my point that we will not be attacked by an invading army - because you mentioned "not yet seen on out soil" Cyber hackers is a change of topic altogether; (2) It is not responsible to through good money after bad. And this is not about speculation. This market melt-down stems from bad regulations about banking and mortgages. Mostly from bad mortgages from bad law. Then there is bad economic policy by an unelected official who artificially kept interest rates low. (3) who the heck cares about millions of dollars to a couple of guys, when the government just gave away hundreds of Billions of dollars. I refuse to even discuss this part of the topic anymore it is so trivial in light of everything else. This bailout is bad news. |
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Post by novillero on Sept 25, 2008 15:34:42 GMT -5
p.s. the Great Depression was "great" because it lasted until after WWII. What prolonged it was the government propping up prices at all costs. Ever hear of those stories of the government butchering hogs and ploughing up fields in order to keep prices up?
There was an economic downturn in 1921, but no one intervened, bad debts were liquidated and the economy rebounded in one year and we have all heard about the roaring 20s.
This bailout plan will not allow readjustment of the market, fosters further credit expansion, and will only prolong the crisis.
Wall street did not create the crisis, the government did. When you heard Bush talk about low interest rates leading to excessive borrowing, no one asked why the low rates? The answer is the Federal Reserve Bank policies, supported by the Treasury. Now the guys who got us into this mess are supposed to save us???
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Post by admin on Sept 25, 2008 15:54:24 GMT -5
#1 - "Why not just secure our borders since the attack will not be from a country but from a couple of nut jobs?" Do you know this for a fact? Are you willing to go "All-In" on that bet. National intelligence was proven ineffective on Sept 11, and with weakened economy and the most serious funding issues since the 1930's you feel national security will be better over the next few years?. Novi, all you need is one or two nuts to hack into a failing stock market or US Dept of Treasury system next week (and far from outside our boarders), using sophisticated malicious computer algorithms that can potential cause further financial turmoil. There are A LOT of very industrious highly skill computer engineers in SO. Asia Novi. Its 2008, you cant just think of conventional insurrection, think out of the Box like the "enemies of America" that would love to kick you in the head with steel toe boots when your down on the floor. Regarding #2, is it not practical to reinforce the troubled institution, and punish the executives who had abused and manipulated their way to gluttonous bloated wealth through " irresponsible-speculative" practices? #3 about the golden parachutes...This is the time to take action on this corporate idiom. If the ship goes down, the Captain goes down with it. If this credo was in place today there would be much more serious attention paid to ACCOUNTABILITY for your "Ships" performance, of there for lack of, al'la the Captain of the Titanic, Cptn Smith. Many of these CEO deserve to go down with the ships.The CEO effectively is the product and JAIL to those who's products are poisoned. The result will be a new bread of ACCOUNTABLE EXECUTIVES. There needs to be a rethinking of the corporate Measure for "Profitability" that addresses both the best interests of the share holders and the society we thrive in. We see today that neither the Share holders nor the sociological best interests have not been well served by these "Captain of Industry", and we must "Nose up out of our economic tail spin" (1) you proved my point that we will not be attacked by an invading army - because you mentioned "not yet seen on out soil" Cyber hackers is a change of topic altogether; (2) It is not responsible to through good money after bad. And this is not about speculation. This market melt-down stems from bad regulations about banking and mortgages. Mostly from bad mortgages from bad law. Then there is bad economic policy by an unelected official who artificially kept interest rates low. (3) who the heck cares about millions of dollars to a couple of guys, when the government just gave away hundreds of Billions of dollars. I refuse to even discuss this part of the topic anymore it is so trivial in light of everything else. This bailout is bad news. Very good and interesting back and forth. I do agree with Novillero. Not much more that I can add. Though, I do like the reference to the great depresion in another post. The New Deal entailed things that were not only unconstitutional, but prolonged the depression. Will history repeat itself? |
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