Hall of Shame/Conflict of Interest Debate

[misterpr1981]

So, Brian invited me to start this debate under a separate thread, and I will take him up on his offer, so that this time "Poppa Rich Kelsey" doesn't try to chime in and hijack the debate again and steer it in a meaningless direction.

Situational Analysis: Brian is the founder of People-fb.com, an unofficial web site that encourages its participants to discuss relevant topics to Freehold Borough. The site also has an added component, which involves different functions, such as the "Hall of Shame," which exposes negative things going on around town, and "Borough Pride," (located all the way at the bottom) which brings to light the positive things.

Brian is also a member of the Boro's Community Information Committee, a committee which mission is to spread positive news about the town, which will encourage new residents to move here and current residents to become more involved.

Question: Because Brian took an oath of office to abide by the committee's ordinance/mission statement, does the fact that he, a.) More so than not, posts negative comments about the town and its governing body and b.) Has devoted a section entirely to spreading negativity on his public web site, represent a conflict of interest as a member of said committee?

Discuss.

[admin]

What to do when a rabid mouth piece for the machine ( I assume Steve is speaking for the Dems?) goes on the attack? Usually I ignore, but in this case, I believe it is fair territory and will respond.

I did tell Steve to open a thread for just this purpose. I know these questions have been gnawing at him for quite some time. He went after me for this in the past, doing so as the chair of the CIC. I told him that if he has a case and is so passionate, bring it up in our public meeting. He never did.

So here it is again, on an unofficial, public forum. I ask that at least for the beginning of this thread, that others refrain from comment. The hard part about this is that by the time this thread was started, many others such as Lisa, Rich, Marc, and Novillero have already shown some support and understanding of my intentions. ( Even when there is some respectful disagreement)

Steve's question:

Question: Because Brian took an oath of office to abide by the committee's ordinance/mission statement, does the fact that he, a.) More so than not, posts negative comments about the town and its governing body and b.) Has devoted a section entirely to spreading negativity on his public web site, represent a conflict of interest as a member of said committee?


First point, my conduct and actions directly related to the CIC are well in line with the mission and intent of that committee. By talking an oath, I do not recall that I am suddenly a mouth piece who has to wear a muzzle in other parts of my life. If that were the case, I absolutely would not have joined the committee.

The governing body was well aware of this site and my involvement in it. If they had concerns pertaining to conflict of interest, I would never have been appointed and then reappointed.

I will say one thing as an aside about the governing body. When I was up for reappointment, councilman Sims did ask to have a chit chat with me. This was right after all the really bad stuff from last years silly season. AS I told him, I was well aware that the site went south badly and I had every desire to turn it around to where it should be. Of course, in my eyes, what the site should be is an open and honest look at our town and issues. Either way, I appreciated Jaye's concerns and especially that he took the time to talk to me in person, eye to eye. I hope that he and others who may be concerned have seen the improvements, although, none of us will agree with or like everything we see.

Second point Steve, You mention my posts. What are you talking about? The home pages, which only I control, or the message board, which everybody controls?

As I mentioned, the home pages have improved and show off more positive than negative. The Hall of Shame is actually a very positive thing. Just as the home pages are not the mouth piece for the GOP, they are not meant to enhance the Dems either. This is an independent site.


Now Steve, as far as the message board, your bias is shining through via the charges you level at me. I have certainly written plenty of very good things about the governing body. There are even letters to the paper posted, that I wrote, complimenting the governing body.

On the other hand, I have also chastised the local GOP.

What about you Steve? Have you ever complimented the local GOP or criticized the incumbent Dems? The answer is no because you are a partisan, far more than me.

The bottom line, Steve, is that your case and ax to grind against me is weak. These questions are more for the governing body to judge. They make the appointments. I know several of them as you do. They know that I am reasonable and will even accommodate them, if it is also reasonable. They also know, and have known, that I will never be a Dem mouthpiece or put that label next to my name. I don't like having GOP next to my name. The reality is, our governing body is a tolerant bunch. They do have a good track record showing that. My next post will reflect that.

For now, I am off to DMV to get the old vehical inspected. Just remember, my carbon foot print is bigger than yours. ;D

[novillero]

Steve, you've made your point, and Brian has made his.

You're the chairman of the CIC. Take care of this through the proper channels. Bring it up at a meeting, have a vote, and take the CIC recommendations to the mayor and council for their ultimate decision. If you are right, then (1) Brian resigns, (2) get's his membership revoked or (3) he pulls the questionable material off the site. End of story.

[misterpr1981]

DEM, GOP, DEM, GOP, DEM, GOP, Machine, machine, Machine.

Geez, someone only thinks in black and white.......

Well, I appreciate your, erm, answer?, Brian. Not that it really answered anything. I think you kind of avoided the questions, but at least tried to answer them. I still am a bit curious as to 1.) Why you suddenly know I'm a dem. Have you ever seen my voter registration information? and 2.) How a "local yokel" town council and mayor could be, or would want to be, a "machine." Sound like Poppa Kelsey talking points to me. Can you think for yourself?

Anyway, you invited me to start up the debate separately...I did..and then you just sling names around. Whatever. Here comes the "other" Brian again for a few months. Hopefully he'll scoot out the door soon, so we can welcome back the nice, caring and non-partisan friendly Brian.

And Brian, if it really were a "machine," don't you think Councilman Sims would have removed you from the CIC? Don't you think Mayor Wilson, knowing that you're a Republican, would have never appointed you? Well, they never judged you and they based it on your passion for the town (at the time) and your skills and experience. I would hope you would recognize that, instead of hurling insults at them at every chance you get.

[novillero]

Aug 15, 2008 9:30:26 GMT -5 novillero said:

Steve, you've made your point, and Brian has made his.

You're the chairman of the CIC. Take care of this through the proper channels. Bring it up at a meeting, have a vote, and take the CIC recommendations to the mayor and council for their ultimate decision. If you are right, then (1) Brian resigns, (2) get's his membership revoked or (3) he pulls the questionable material off the site. End of story.

Please take your recommendations to your committee or the council if you feel they are so egregious.

[admin]

Aug 15, 2008 9:16:17 GMT -5 lisas84 said:

I have to assert as a member of the CIC, Brian's involvement is outstanding. He has accomplished a lot. He is not afraid of working, making the necessary contacts/outreach. He consistently brings ideas to the table, and has demonstrated admirable problem-solving abilities.

Brian has reached out to the court street school, among other people and entities in town. He is instrumental in composing our Resident Resource Packet, a rather herculean task.

He is working closely with the software developer to implement the upcoming website.

In summary, I consider Brian to be a valuable member of this committee because of the quality and consistency of his involvement.

Lisa, as always, thank you for the words and support! But, lets not forget Steve. Before he moved, he was also instrumental in many good things associated with CIC.

I will respect that fact that he is challenging me a bit here. As mentioned, these questions have been gnawing at him for some time. I consider that fair. In the end, we are all on team Freehold.

[misterpr1981]

Brian,

I must clear something up. It's not that I'm devaluing your value to the committee. I think you play a huge part on the committee. I consider you and Lisa as co-chairs. The three of us played a major role in forming it. And I would never want you off of the committee.

I just can't get my head around why you would feel it's important to start a committee to spread positive sentiments about the town, and then knock the town at almost every chance you get. That's really the only thing I'm curious about, and the "Hall of Shame" fully represents that questioning.

[richardkelsey]

Aug 15, 2008 12:59:00 GMT -5 admin said:

Aug 15, 2008 9:16:17 GMT -5 lisas84 said:

But, lets not forget Steve. Before he moved, he was also instrumental in many good things associated with CIC.

I will respect that fact that he is challenging me a bit here. As mentioned, these questions have been gnawing at him for some time. I consider that fair. In the end, we are all on team Freehold.

Brian -- with a sense of dignity and fairness that is not at all earned by the attacker, you prove how maturity, sanity, and civil discourse are best used.

Your patience and sense of fairness clearly knows no bounds.

If you are hoping to set a good example -- I think you are doing just that. Unfortunately, not all lessons are well received or even understood.

Keep up the great work.

[admin]

Aug 15, 2008 9:34:18 GMT -5 misterpr1981 said:

DEM, GOP, DEM, GOP, DEM, GOP, Machine, machine, Machine.

Geez, someone only thinks in black and white.......

Well, I appreciate your, erm, answer?, Brian. Not that it really answered anything. I think you kind of avoided the questions, but at least tried to answer them. I still am a bit curious as to 1.) Why you suddenly know I'm a dem. Have you ever seen my voter registration information? and 2.) How a "local yokel" town council and mayor could be, or would want to be, a "machine." Sound like Poppa Kelsey talking points to me. Can you think for yourself?.

My, erm answer? I did answer many of your questions. We have to put the cards on the table here. You will not get the answer you want. Somehow, you will have to make peace with that. The Dem vs. GOP thing is relevant. You bring it up yourself quite often. When someone even questions the governing body, you bring up partisan and GOP issues as if that is the only motivator for people disagreeing with the governing body. In context of this discussion, we have an unapologetic and fiercely protective Dem asking questions of an independent. That helps readers gain proper perspective. Again, where have you ever disagreed publicly with the Dems? Or agreed with local GOP? You have a perfect record of never.

Aug 15, 2008 9:34:18 GMT -5 misterpr1981 said:

And Brian, if it really were a "machine," don't you think Councilman Sims would have removed you from the CIC? Don't you think Mayor Wilson, knowing that you're a Republican, would have never appointed you? Well, they never judged you and they based it on your passion for the town (at the time) and your skills and experience. I would hope you would recognize that, instead of hurling insults at them at every chance you get.

You touch upon my previous post where I mentioned that the governing body is open and tolerant of others. There is a track record on their behalf of appointing people who are active in opposing them. Are you saying that my passion for the town has waned? Hardly. As long as I am here, I will always try to make the positive difference. What you call insults is merely disagreement. There is nothing wrong with that. It is healthy and luckily those on the governing body, who I do know, are quite able to handle the occasional disagreement. Again, you seam to gloss over the compliments and support I have given. This leads into the next question.

Are all appointees to committees to be mouth pieces of the governing body? I would hope the answer is no. The reason for that is simple. This comes down to fundamental civics.

People have to realize that for arguments sake, the governing body should not, nor does it exist, for their own purpose. That also extends to the committees. Committees are not political in nature. What are they?

They are all PUBLIC SERVANTS. Every one of us who serves, volunteers, elected leaders and public employees. We serve the greater good, the public, not a party. Rarely are public servants expected to suddenly tow some party line, or wear a muzzle. On the CIC, we are working toward fulfilling our mission. That mission is to serve our residents.

Are committee members suddenly supposed to give up any activism when they are appointed? The past track record in this town shows the great big answer is no. There are plenty of different people on committees who are active in a number of different causes.

Rarely do these outside activities present a conflict of interest, the topic of this thread. It seams to take quite a bit before a person is not reappointed.

If you recall, I even wrote a letter calling for the ouster of one person who blatantly sabotaged his own committee. He was not reappointed, but was giving the luxury of handing his seat to his appointed successor. To this day, the governing body still appeases those interests who have have done far less good for the town than I.

In other words, I should be safe. There really is no conflict of interest here. This is an open site, dedicated to honest discussion. The home pages are very neutral in nature.

Taking issue with the Hall of Shame? Fair enough. But I did not sanction a muster zone. I did not run the Exxon into what it is now. I did not break the bricks on the sidewalk. I did not allow the old police station to just sit there. The list goes on, but take note, I also did not cast any blame. What I am seeking is forward movement, regardless of who that has to come from. How could any person argue with progress? That is a positive thing! The bigger PR disaster is when people constantly see these things. The bigger PR disaster is when a new person to the town drives though and the first impression is Exxon or people begging in the streets. I didn't cause those problems, just want them solved.

It seams to me, Steve, that you are intent on shooting the messenger.

Now Steve, as I said, you are not going to get the answer you want. My answers are not meant to make you feel warm and fuzzy. If you still feel strongly about conflict of interest, write that letter! Call for my removal! It is still a free country, we are all entitled to our beliefs and can still express them without fear.

[admin]

Aug 15, 2008 13:26:18 GMT -5 misterpr1981 said:

Brian,

I must clear something up. It's not that I'm devaluing your value to the committee. I think you play a huge part on the committee. I consider you and Lisa as co-chairs. The three of us played a major role in forming it. And I would never want you off of the committee.

I just can't get my head around why you would feel it's important to start a committee to spread positive sentiments about the town, and then knock the town at almost every chance you get. That's really the only thing I'm curious about, and the "Hall of Shame" fully represents that questioning.

I did not see this post until after my last.

The CIC fills a very much needed niche. But that is what it is , a niche, a piece of the puzzle. Sometimes I am saddened by those who do not see the value in it. Beyond the committee, that does not mean that other work stops. There are plenty of things to get done in this town. Hopefully, different people are working on those things.

And I am sorry, I do not knock the town every chance I get. I have certainly posted plenty of very good things, and more importantly, provided the place where others can too.

[misterpr1981]

Richie boy.....dear ol Richie boy.... once again you're clueless

Heh.

[admin]

Aug 15, 2008 14:22:45 GMT -5 misterpr1981 said:

Richie boy.....dear ol Richie boy.... once again you're clueless

Heh.

Is that really necessary? Some might say that your conduct is a poor reflection of a committee person.

[misterpr1981]

Well, Brian, when your close friend is consistently sending in angry letters into the News Transcript, that doesn't exactly help the town's image. Well, in this case it does, since no one takes him seriously. But the fact that you give credibility to him doesn't.

It is a piece of the puzzle. I am right there with you on that. It's not the only thing, but it's a very important puzzle piece. And when we're all spending our important time (as such are you) on trying to spread positive news about the town, ANY negative news story, whether the Hall of Shame, or an attack letter, sets our work back instead of helping to move it forward. I know that my time is EXTREMELY valueable, and I don't like the fact that someone is wasting it by moving us backwards. It's not right. There is enough negativity in the world..who needs to add to it? Seriously.

[misterpr1981]

Some would say his conduct is a poor reflection of a professional attorney. It works both ways.

[admin]

In both of your above posts, you go off topic and engage in personal attacks. Good job.

We will consider this topic closed. Readers can make up their own minds.

[ka19]

While differences of opinion can sometimes be unpleasant, our town is privileged to have as many concerned intelligent people who truly care.

I think the Hall of Shame IS positive. It demonstrates that we have higher standards in this town, and it motivates people into solving the highlighted problems. And when those problems are solved, we have lots of good things to say about them.

If the HoS played some role in expediting the repair, then I say "Thank God for the HoS."

When there was giant male genetalia spray-painted on the street (incorporating two manholes as the testicles) at the corner of Enright and West Main, and was left there for months after I had complained about it, I only wonder if the HoS could have helped get it removed sooner.

(the fact that I chuckled every time I saw it in the morning it TOTALLY irrelevant!)

[misterpr1981]

Richard: With such a stellar resume that you have, I must question how you could run for public office several times in a Red State and not be successful. Would it have anything to do with character or ego?