Bad PR

[admin]

We have mentioned in the past that the liquor on South and Main is an eye sore. Apparently, we are not the only ones who think so.

monmouthdailyphoto.blogspot.com/2008/08/freehold.html

I like the byline "trying to make New Jersey look good." Instead of putting a nice photo of FB they use a bad one.

[lisas84]

The sign is pretty classic and should be preserved -- the old neon is wonderful.

Nevertheless, the spot itself does have a lot of potential.

[novillero]

Aug 14, 2008 6:52:07 GMT -5 lisas84 said:

The sign is pretty classic and should be preserved -- the old neon is wonderful.

Nevertheless, the spot itself does have a lot of potential.

haha. I thought this topic was going to be about one of our posters!!!

If anyone has one of those Freehold History books, this corner used to be a nice hotel until it burned down a long time ago...

[bergsteiger]

Focusing on that building is like Focusing on scratches on a car that has large dents.

[admin]

Aug 14, 2008 7:21:58 GMT -5 bergsteiger said:

Focusing on that building is like Focusing on scratches on a car that has large dents.

Funny! I guess that is a scratch compared to the dent we call Exxon. Either way, it all detracts from our town.

[novillero]

Aug 14, 2008 7:23:52 GMT -5 admin said:

Aug 14, 2008 7:21:58 GMT -5 bergsteiger said:

Focusing on that building is like Focusing on scratches on a car that has large dents.

Funny! I guess that is a scratch compared to the dent we call Exxon. Either way, it all detracts from our town.

Yes, there are bigger problems to solve than this one. This is close to last on the list... (but I love how Brian always brings up that Exxon!)

I was in downtown Spring Lake the other day. Spring Lake, of course, is, well, ... beautiful... beautiful beach, beautiful park, beautiful houses.

But if you ever notice their downtown, the buildings are all architecturally miserable and probably designed by the same guy who did our liquor store. But hey, you are in Spring Lake and everything else is, well, ... beautiful, so who cares about what a few architecturally ugly downtown buildings look like... Everything is just fine...

[ka19]

Aug 14, 2008 7:21:58 GMT -5 bergsteiger said:

Focusing on that building is like Focusing on scratches on a car that has large dents.

While you are not incorrect, we are capable of thinking of solutions to more than one problem at a time.



That said, I really don't think the liquor store is all that bad. What's so awful about it?

[stffgpr2003]

Funny! I guess that is a scratch compared to the dent we call Exxon. Either way, it all detracts from our town.

All is not exactly quiet on the Exxon front. Stay tuned.

Marc

[stffgpr2003]

liquor on South and Main is an eye sore

I totally agree. That is the building the people who own the high end jewelry store in Freehold Township (not the Jewel Case) have expressed interest in, to me.

In addition, Rich Gatto has told me one of his goals is to find ways to encourage downtown landlords to fix up their businesses (including the liquor store). I expect him to work more closely with Hank Stryker on this. In fact, I am very disappointed with the signage situation, downtown, and you will hear more from me on this as well as other related storefront "housekeeping" issues very soon.

Marc

[admin]

Aug 14, 2008 8:23:24 GMT -5 @stffgpr2003 said:

Funny! I guess that is a scratch compared to the dent we call Exxon. Either way, it all detracts from our town.

All is not exactly quiet on the Exxon front. Stay tuned.

Marc

For now it is safe to say that the Exxon is the worst reflection in the Hall of Shame. There is more to come, but it would be nice to put up pics that reflect forward moevement on that site.

I think I keep bringing it up for two reasons. It is very ugly and it has been sitting that way for way too long.

[admin]

Aug 14, 2008 8:29:53 GMT -5 @stffgpr2003 said:

liquor on South and Main is an eye sore

I totally agree. That is the building the people who own the high end jewelry store in Freehold Township (not the Jewel Case) have expressed interest in, to me.

In addition, Rich Gatto has told me one of his goals is to find ways to encourage downtown landlords to fix up their businesses (including the liquor store). I expect him to work more closely with Hank Stryker on this. In fact, I am very disappointed with the signage situation, downtown, and you will hear more from me on this as well as other related storefront "housekeeping" issues very soon.

Marc

Signage! Another great down town topic. Isn't there some HPC ordinances on the books to back this up? Shouldn't signs compliment the area and the mood we want to capture?

As historic areas, we should capitalize and accentuate that. So many of the signs look too urban and out of place.

And one more point-- English please! For a historic American town to have non American languages placed up and down Main, or any other street, really does not fit into the better picture.

Non American languages should be only allowed with certain size lettering, fine print if you will, no more than two inch letters.

[stffgpr2003]

I think I keep bringing it up for two reasons. It is very ugly and it has been sitting that way for way too long.

The town paved the way for the owner to go forward with a gorgeous new building planned for the site. This is what was approved...this is what is expected...this is what the ownership has previously built in other places.

We've seen similar situations at the Bartleson Manor site and at the American Hotel property. Original ownership fell through at both of those sites, only to be replaced by new businesspeople that picked up where those that failed left off.

The building on South is magnificent and it was worth the delay to bring it to a successful completion. The same goes for the American Hotel, where the shady hotel owner from NY defaulted on his purchase, allowing Steve Goldberg to come along and do the job.

These deals are so difficult and complex. They involve all sorts of potential pitfalls: financing, approvals and construction issues...

These guys plan for success and, unexpectedly, the economy tanks, financing dries up, partnerships fall through, approvals are delayed or are not granted, other failed business ventures siphon off their funds, construction costs rise or delays are seen. These are only a few of the major issues long term projects face.

Right now the Exxon Station is definately ugly (hey, it was ugly as an Exxon Station for 50 years!), but we all know that we will have something much nicer at the site, before long, and we'll all soon forget what it looks like, presently.

As I said, you'll hear more about this in the coming weeks. There are business issues being resolved by the ownership.

Marc

[stffgpr2003]

Signage! Another great down town topic. Isn't there some HPC ordinances on the books to back this up? Shouldn't signs compliment the area and the mood we want to capture?

Absolutely! The vision study is currently being poured over and everyone will hear more about its contents this fall.

More than a shotgun approach, we need a comprehensive and more uniform plan to address what I will call the "run" of buildings in the downtown. I hope the vision study and what flows from it serve as a 21st century blueprint for change.

I am very angry when I see those "out-of-place" looking signs like [glow=red,2,300]SAVINGS WORLD[/glow] and DISCO LATINO in the downtown. I'll leave it at this, for right now!!

I, for one, want to see the entire "look" of the downtown take on a clean and more appealing look, befitting that of a county seat that seeks to attract diners and shoppers to participate in the retail aspects of Main Street - especially those new businesses we still need to attract.

Code Enforcement is a big part of the solution, but the real solution is getting the downtown landlords to fix up their locations like the folks are doing at old McKelvey Building. It really looks nice and we need more of this!!!!

Enough with the one year leases for marginal businesses (most fail, anyway) that allow the retail landlords to pocket some bucks while having to do little to improve their properties. Some of these folks are as bad as the ones that own the residential rental properties around town.

Rich Gatto seems to understand this and, together with the town and others, should be able to convince these landlords to come together and create the uniform look our downtown needs. Code enforcement will definitely have to step up and be a design aid and - when needed - a tougher enforcer with respect to all this. I don't want to have to start voting down everybody's permits (aka: Taxi Cabs) to drive home the point of what needs to be done.

Marc

[misterpr1981]

Let me just go on record to state that for a member of the Freehold CIC, which is the Community Information Committee, the town's image shaping committee, to go out of his way to have placed a "Hall of Shame," exposing only all of the bad parts of the Boro on a public web site is a travesty, an insult and an embarrassment.

It would be akin to the Whitehouse Spokesperson...someone like Tony Snow (before he passed away)...going on the news, while in office, to state all of the negative things about the Bush administration. He'd be fired before he uttered his last word. It just wouldn't happen.

[admin]

Aug 14, 2008 10:04:35 GMT -5 misterpr1981 said:

Let me just go on record to state that for a member of the Freehold CIC, which is the Community Information Committee, the town's image shaping committee, to go out of his way to have placed a "Hall of Shame," exposing only all of the bad parts of the Boro on a public web site is a travesty, an insult and an embarrassment.

It would be akin to the Whitehouse Spokesperson...someone like Tony Snow (before he passed away)...going on the news, while in office, to state all of the negative things about the Bush administration. He'd be fired before he uttered his last word. It just wouldn't happen.

Steve, dude, your cracked.

[novillero]

Aug 14, 2008 10:07:37 GMT -5 admin said:

Aug 14, 2008 10:04:35 GMT -5 misterpr1981 said:

Let me just go on record to state that for a member of the Freehold CIC, which is the Community Information Committee, the town's image shaping committee, to go out of his way to have placed a "Hall of Shame," exposing only all of the bad parts of the Boro on a public web site is a travesty, an insult and an embarrassment.

It would be akin to the Whitehouse Spokesperson...someone like Tony Snow (before he passed away)...going on the news, while in office, to state all of the negative things about the Bush administration. He'd be fired before he uttered his last word. It just wouldn't happen.

Steve, dude, your cracked.

Steve does have a point, sort of. However, there are very positive pages too. There is one called Boro Pride. The homepage also has some nice pics scrolling across it. There is also a page tracking the progress of the American Hotel (p.s. update that page too. Doors are up and look nice - also they pics should be dated...)

The Hall of Shame page does have a "disclaimer" of sorts. So, I do not think Brian is just focusing on the bad. There is a lot of good shown on the site. I think his Hall of Shame is really aimed at trying to get those things fixed, and not just pretending that they are not there.

I do think he needs to update that Hall of Shame page to show the fixed bricks.

Lastly, if he can only find 3 things to put on a hall of shame page, that's not too bad. He could have probably posted several other photos... Anyway, the police station picture is not exactly a horrible sight to behold. The gas station, however, is pretty ugly as evidenced through the pics posted. The bricks are minor... but the pic needs to be updated...

[misterpr1981]

I think it's more about the principle than the content. Okay, so he has positive things too, but that doesn't matter. Christopher Ciccone also says nice things about his sister, Madonna, in his new book, but the book is still known for being a negative portrayal on her. Tony Snow may have thrown in some positive comments about the Bush admin, but if he uttered one negative statement, he still would have been handed a pink slip.

Let me ask you: How can a person who took an oath of office to abide by the mission statement of a committee which is supposed to portray Freehold Boro in a positive light, spread negative perceptions of the same town on his personal, yet public web site?

I'm sorry Brian. But you know that I am right on this one. It's highly unprofessional and inappropriate.

[admin]

Aug 14, 2008 10:17:33 GMT -5 novillero said:

Aug 14, 2008 10:07:37 GMT -5 admin said:

Steve, dude, your cracked.

Steve does have a point, sort of. However, there are very positive pages too. There is one called Boro Pride. The homepage also has some nice pics scrolling across it. There is also a page tracking the progress of the American Hotel (p.s. update that page too. Doors are up and look nice - also they pics should be dated...)

The Hall of Shame page does have a "disclaimer" of sorts. So, I do not think Brian is just focusing on the bad. There is a lot of good shown on the site. I think his Hall of Shame is really aimed at trying to get those things fixed, and not just pretending that they are not there.

I do think he needs to update that Hall of Shame page to show the fixed bricks.

Lastly, if he can only find 3 things to put on a hall of shame page, that's not too bad. He could have probably posted several other photos... Anyway, the police station picture is not exactly a horrible sight to behold. The gas station, however, is pretty ugly as evidenced through the pics posted. The bricks are minor... but the pic needs to be updated...

TY, Novillero, I wasn't going to bother defending myself on this thread, we are going off topic.

For the most part, until the dopey attack on me, this thread has been a healthy one with some very nice discussion.

[misterpr1981]

I'm looking at the FB CIC Ordinance right now and the mission statement states:

The purposes, powers and duties of the Community Information Advisory Committee are:
a. To assist in the development of POSITIVE communications regarding Freehold Borough, the Mayor and Council and various other committees and departments.

and g. Recruit and retain new residents and solidifying community interest. (How does one recruit and retain new residents and solifidy community interest, when one slaps up on his public web site a page devoted to exposing only negative parts of the town?)

AND, Brian, considering the subject of the thread is "Bad PR" and the thread dives into the "Hall of Shame," I have not strayed off topic. Brian, you yourself brought up Exxon in this thread, when the thread was focusing on the liquor store, so the topic derailed before I started our discussion on the "Hall of Shame."

[admin]

Aug 14, 2008 10:28:02 GMT -5 misterpr1981 said:

I'm looking at the FB CIC Ordinance right now and the mission statement states:

The purposes, powers and duties of the Community Information Advisory Committee are:
a. To assist in the development of POSITIVE communications regarding Freehold Borough, the Mayor and Council and various other committees and departments.

and g. Recruit and retain new residents and solidifying community interest. (How does one recruit and retain new residents and solifidy community interest, when one slaps up on his public web site a page devoted to exposing only negative parts of the town?)

AND, Brian, considering the subject of the thread is "Bad PR" and the thread dives into the "Hall of Shame," I have not strayed off topic. Brian, you yourself brought up Exxon in this thread, when the thread was focusing on the liquor store, so the topic derailed before I started our discussion on the "Hall of Shame."

IF you think this is bad, wait until you see what I have in store in the future. ;D

[misterpr1981]

Way to skirt the issue, Brian. Says a lot about your character and your true motives. I'm very disappointed in you.

[admin]

Aug 14, 2008 10:41:07 GMT -5 misterpr1981 said:

Way to skirt the issue, Brian. Says a lot about your character and your true motives. I'm very disappointed in you.

You almost have a point there. Skirting issues. Lets get back on how this thread was started.

Another site had a not nice write up about us. What do we do about it? Stick our heads in the sand? Put on rose colored glasses? Hold hands and sing kumbaya? Pretend our town doesn't have problems? Put people down for daring to talk about it?

If anything this thread has shown movement that things are being looked at and worked on. Solutions! That is a good thing.

[stffgpr2003]

The Hall of Shame page does have a "disclaimer" of sorts. So, I do not think Brian is just focusing on the bad. There is a lot of good shown on the site. I think his Hall of Shame is really aimed at trying to get those things fixed, and not just pretending that they are not there.

I do think he needs to update that Hall of Shame page to show the fixed bricks.

Lastly, if he can only find 3 things to put on a hall of shame page, that's not too bad. He could have probably posted several other photos... Anyway, the police station picture is not exactly a horrible sight to behold. The gas station, however, is pretty ugly as evidenced through the pics posted. The bricks are minor... but the pic needs to be updated...

I understand what Brian is trying to accomplish with his Hall of Shame page, but it really is a double edged sword. The question is does it do more good than harm?

This issue cuts to the bottom line of what Brian and Lisa want the Freehold Voice to be and what they hope the site accomplishes as a communication tool. What sort of message does the site want to send out and to whom?

The site is for and about Freehold Borough. But, it is also open to everyone. It comes up in searches by realtors, propective home buyers, propective business owners and even kids doing book reports on Freehold Borough. Anyone can get here. The question is - what sort of impression of the Borough are they leaving with?

I won't make a real judgement on the Hall of Shame. It's been up for awhile, now. FOX5 DOES has its Arnold Diaz ("Shame, Shame") and his audience desparetely waits to see who today's crook is and what business they should not patronize. It serves a purpose. This segment is on a news program that is not at all interested in promoting their host town(s).

Question is... if we want to put our best foot forward and attract BETTER to the Borough is this a good thing to help us accomplish that goal? Are the things pictured on that page really an indication of a a growing cancerous urban blight or represent just about the same number of "works in progress" that most similar towns have, at any given point in time? And, do we feel the need to use these few things as introductories and leadoffs for first time web visitors to Freehold Borough?

Brian and Lisa - your choice.

Marc

[carroll]

Aug 14, 2008 10:04:35 GMT -5 misterpr1981 said:

Let me just go on record to state that for a member of the Freehold CIC, which is the Community Information Committee, the town's image shaping committee, to go out of his way to have placed a "Hall of Shame," exposing only all of the bad parts of the Boro on a public web site is a travesty, an insult and an embarrassment.

It would be akin to the Whitehouse Spokesperson...someone like Tony Snow (before he passed away)...going on the news, while in office, to state all of the negative things about the Bush administration. He'd be fired before he uttered his last word. It just wouldn't happen.

OK, time to stop reading and start writing. misterpr1981 is dead on right. This is like a respiratory specialist who chain smokes.

[admin]

Aug 14, 2008 10:48:25 GMT -5 @stffgpr2003 said:

The Hall of Shame page does have a "disclaimer" of sorts. So, I do not think Brian is just focusing on the bad. There is a lot of good shown on the site. I think his Hall of Shame is really aimed at trying to get those things fixed, and not just pretending that they are not there.

I do think he needs to update that Hall of Shame page to show the fixed bricks.

Lastly, if he can only find 3 things to put on a hall of shame page, that's not too bad. He could have probably posted several other photos... Anyway, the police station picture is not exactly a horrible sight to behold. The gas station, however, is pretty ugly as evidenced through the pics posted. The bricks are minor... but the pic needs to be updated...

I understand what Brian is trying to accomplish with his Hall of Shame page, but it really is a double edged sword. The question is does it do more good than harm?

This issue cuts to the bottom line of what Brian and Lisa want the Freehold Voice to be and what they hope the site accomplishes as a communication tool. What sort of message does the site want to send out and to whom?

The site is for and about Freehold Borough. But, it is also open to everyone. It comes up in searches by Realtors, propective home buyers, propective business owners and even kids doing book reports on Freehold Borough. Anyone can get here. The question is - what sort of impression of the Borough are they leaving with?

I won't make a real judgement on the Hall of Shame. It's been up for awhile, now. FOX5 DOES has its Arnold Diaz ("Shame, Shame") and his audience desparetely waits to see who today's crook is and what business they should not patronize. It serves a purpose. This segment is on a news program that is not at all interested in promoting their host town(s).

Question is... if we want to put our best foot forward and attract BETTER to the Borough is this a good thing to help us accomplish that goal? Are the things pictured on that page really an indication of a a growing cancerous urban blight or represent just about the same number of "works in progress" that most similar towns have, at any given point in time? And, do we feel the need to use these few things as introductories and leadoffs for first time web visitors to Freehold Borough?

Brian and Lisa - your choice.

Marc

Marc,

You bring up many very good points, ones I have grappled with in reference to that page.

First point, I have to get Lisa off the hook. She tried to talk me out of that page. Although she failed in that , she did challenge me to soften it and make sure the proper perspective is laid out. As usual, she was a big help.

Second, I cannot forget the roots of this site, the former PEOPLE group. That spirit is to constantly present a healthy challenge to our elected leaders, as well as all of our residents. That should go to all facets of our town. People who are afraid of those challenges are the ones who really worry me. The message board has always been open, but the changes on the front pages are largely good ones from when the site was first started. There was far more negativity when the PEOPLE site started.

To dedicate one stinking page to the warts of the town is not such a bad thing. What is even better, is when those warts are cured and that too is shown. Of course, the page is not meant to be specifically directed at the governing body.

I see the point that the HOS is a double edged sword. But, so is silence and pretending that all is well and there is nothing wrong in the town. I suppose it comes down to what tactic any given individual prefers.

Me? I simply believe in balance and honesty. For that reason, the Hall of Shame has to exist.

I am also reminded of the analogy to the rental recommendations. Isn't one of them to publish the names of bad landlords? Cause a bit of embarrassment to get the desired results?

In the end, we all just want to see our problems fixed. The problem is that some issues really need some extra attention.

And of course, lets not forget the Borough Pride page!

[richardkelsey]

Brian -- resistance is futile -- you must assimilate.

The problem with young Levine's analysis is that he attempts to turn the "committee's Mission" into the obligation of each personal individual in every aspect of that individual's life.

Thus -- by joining the Committee, you apparently surrender the right to do anything, in your private life or personal world that fails to portray the town in a positive light.

Obviously, the committee's mission statement can't and should not ever reach that far. Lord knows that the young Levine has not always met the burden of that test either -- nor has he been held to that standard.

Putting aside the effort to force positivity on anyone who does not carry the party line -- the real issue is the value of the the page in question.

First, this is not -- as we have been told over, and over, and over again -- the official website of Freehold. Heck, we were once called much worse than that -- let alone the fact that we are still struggling to be prime time.

The site is meant to be a "voice." As part of that voice -- the use of public shame for condemnation is used to try to encourage those in the Borough to move better, more efficiently, to improve sites that reflect poorly On the town. The Hall of Shame is not here to shame Freehold, or put it in a poor light -- it is there to make people clean up and do something about horrific eyes sores and long term problems that cast the Borough in a poor light. In essence, the page is an effort to clean-up the eye-sores so that the Borough can be perceived as shangrila . Most people have a base line understanding of that concept.

Now -- I will only write this one time. It is not productive -- in any way -- nor is it consistent with the guidelines or the spirit of the guidelines for posters to suggest that another poster's true character is revealed by posts or actions. That's a phrase used far too much for my liking -- and when it is used over and over again -- well -- I thing it say more about the poster than those on whom the poster focuses the attack.

Brian is a tireless advocate for the town in every possible way -- and his true character reflects the love and passion he has for this town in both his public and private efforts. Freehold Borough has not nearly enoguh Brians.

If we want to debate the efficacy of the Hall of Shame as a vehicle for change -- that is a fair policy debate.

[stffgpr2003]

Marc,

You bring up many very good points, ones I have grappled with in reference to that page.

First point, I have to get Lisa off the hook. She tried to talk me out of that page. Although she failed in that , she did challenge me to soften it and make sure the proper perspective is laid out. As usual, she was a big help.

Second, I cannot forget the roots of this site, the former PEOPLE group. That spirit is to constantly present a healthy challenge to our elected leaders, as well as all of our residents. That should go to all facets of our town. People who are afraid of those challenges are the ones who really worry me. The message board has always been open, but the changes on the front pages are largely good ones from when the site was first started. There was far more negativity when the PEOPLE site started.

To dedicate one stinking page to the warts of the town is not such a bad thing. What is even better, is when those warts are cured and that too is shown. Of course, the page is not meant to be specifically directed at the governing body.

I see the point that the HOS is a double edged sword. But, so is silence and pretending that all is well and there is nothing wrong in the town. I suppose it comes down to what tactic any given individual prefers.

Me? I simply believe in balance and honesty. For that reason, the Hall of Shame has to exist.

I am also reminded of the analogy to the rental recommendations. Isn't one of them to publish the names of bad landlords? Cause a bit of embarrassment to get the desired results?

In the end, we all just want to see our problems fixed. The problem is that some issues really need some extra attention.

And of course, lets not forget the Borough Pride page!

Remember that I did not pass a final judgement on your Hall of Shame. And, if I were to -it should not matter, as Rich pointed out. This is NOT an official Borough Web site, just as I NEVER officially share the Boro's positions on anything that falls outside of my personal thinking.

I merely pointed out some things to consider. I didn't take this issue as far as Steven or Rich have. For me, the site having the page is not a political issue. It may be for others. My concerns are of perception, only.

As for the former site and the purpose of the former PEOPLE group - yes, its mission was grassroots - though its original purpose was often distorted by others with a variety of differing agendas - especially when one individual turned it into something very mean sprited and used it as her campaign credentials and platform. Nothing further on this point, though.

Marc

[admin]

Aug 14, 2008 12:11:26 GMT -5 @stffgpr2003 said:

Marc,

You bring up many very good points, ones I have grappled with in reference to that page.

First point, I have to get Lisa off the hook. She tried to talk me out of that page. Although she failed in that , she did challenge me to soften it and make sure the proper perspective is laid out. As usual, she was a big help.

Second, I cannot forget the roots of this site, the former PEOPLE group. That spirit is to constantly present a healthy challenge to our elected leaders, as well as all of our residents. That should go to all facets of our town. People who are afraid of those challenges are the ones who really worry me. The message board has always been open, but the changes on the front pages are largely good ones from when the site was first started. There was far more negativity when the PEOPLE site started.

To dedicate one stinking page to the warts of the town is not such a bad thing. What is even better, is when those warts are cured and that too is shown. Of course, the page is not meant to be specifically directed at the governing body.

I see the point that the HOS is a double edged sword. But, so is silence and pretending that all is well and there is nothing wrong in the town. I suppose it comes down to what tactic any given individual prefers.

Me? I simply believe in balance and honesty. For that reason, the Hall of Shame has to exist.

I am also reminded of the analogy to the rental recommendations. Isn't one of them to publish the names of bad landlords? Cause a bit of embarrassment to get the desired results?

In the end, we all just want to see our problems fixed. The problem is that some issues really need some extra attention.

And of course, lets not forget the Borough Pride page!

Remember that I did not pass a final judgement on your Hall of Shame. And, if I were to -it shold not matter, as Rich pointed out. This is NOT an official Borough Web site, just as I NEVER officially share the Boro's positions on anything that falls outside of my personal thinking.

I merely pointed out some things to consider. I didn't take this issue as far as Steven or Rich have. For me, the site having the page is not a political issue. It may be for others. My concerns are of perception, only.

As for the former site and the purpose of the former PEOPLE group - yes, its mission was grassroots - though its original purpose was often distorted by others with a variety of differing agendas - especially when one individual turned it into something very mean sprited and used it as her campaign credentials and platform. Nothing further on this point, though.

Marc

I know the post I resonded to was not passing judgment. You brought up some very fair minded points.

[stffgpr2003]

young Levine's

This implies I have some special influence over Steven. Sometimes, I wish I did. I might have saved myself some extra money and some added grief from time to time. You know how kids rebel? Maybe, you haven't gotten to that point in life yet with older children.

Steven and I often disagree on major and minor issues. In the final analysis, I'm very glad he's his own person. I told him to work for someone for a few years and learn - he had the guts to go out on his own. In this case, he made a right decision.

I may have shared good values with my kids, but they think for themselves. Start preparing for the day Sean LeVine comes on-line. You think Steven is tough??!!

Marc

[richardkelsey]

Aug 14, 2008 12:25:19 GMT -5 @stffgpr2003 said:

young Levine's

This implies I have some special influence over Steven. Sometimes, I wish I did. I might have saved myself some extra money and some added grief from time to time. You know how kids rebel? Maybe, you haven't gotten to that point in life yet with older children.

Steven and I often disagree on major and minor issues. In the final analysis, I'm very glad he's his own person. I told him to work for someone for a few years and learn - he had the guts to go out on his own. In this case, he made a right decision.

I may have shared good values with my kids, but they think for themselves. Start preparing for the day Sean LeVine comes on-line. You think Steven is tough??!!

Marc

Thanks Marc -- to be clear -- I was not trying to imply any level of control over Steven. The law considers him an adult -- and of course he is fully responsible for himself.