Bad PR

[misterpr1981]

Let me first start by responding to Gene Kelsey's son, Richard. First of all, Richard, my last name is Le Vine, not Levine. I refer to you as Kelsey, not Kelsy, not Kalsey. Why is it okay to change my last name, but no one else's? Would you refer to an Irish person whose name is "O'Flaherty" as "oflaherty?"

Moving on....the committee's mission statement shouldn't extend to all facets of the individual's life? Well, funny you say this, considering you expect the mayor and council to do the same. You only judge them by their roles in the government, and treat them as that's their only role.

Richard, you're obviously a poor businessman, as you should know that when you are hired by a company, anything you do outside of that realm that somehow demeans the integrity of that specific company, is grounds for dismissal. For example, back when I used to work in retail, when I was still in HS, I wore a shirt out that said "I Kiss Boys." Because someone I worked with at this supermarket saw me wearing it out and reported me for it, I almost got in trouble. I told them I'm allowed to wear whatever I'd like on my own time, and was given the lecture that I am a representative of this company and if I do something to demean its reputation, I can be disciplined. Now, this was probably homophobic, since a statement saying that I kiss guys isn't offensive at all, nor should be, but this was the same kind of talk I've heard other people go through. You are always representing the company or organization you work for, ESPECIALLY when you legally take an oath of office. This isn't a case of wearing a stupid shirt or dressing a certain way...this is actually making a conscious effort to go against the mission statement that one chose to abide by. A direct conflict of interest. If you don't understand this, Richard, you are not meant to be in business.

It does not matter if it's not the "official" FB web site. It's still a public site, started and maintained by someone who serves on a committee which mission is to spread positive perceptions. Don't you understand what Public Relations is? If not, maybe you should study up. That's what the whole basis of the committee is--the opposite of damaging the town's reputation.

Richard, no one has brought up party lines here, until you have again. You are absolutely naive if you think the way you think, based on your last post. And I know I would never want to get legal counsel from a naive attorney.

[stffgpr2003]

Let me first start by responding to Gene Kelsey's son, Richard. First of all, Richard, my last name is Le Vine, not Levine. I refer to you as Kelsey, not Kelsy, not Kalsey. The only reason I can see why you would spell it wrong is offensive and anti-semitic. Would you refer to an Irish person whose name is "O'Flaherty" as "oflaherty?"

Steven -

Don't make a federal case out of the name thing. My previous point was valid (that I somehow control you). Yours may not be. Before you start accusing anyone of anti-semitism, you best have better proof than just the spelling of a last name.

Kelsey? I thought he was Kelso!!! What does me calling him that make me - a Casual Reader? LOL!!!

There are still even people on Council and in town that spell my name Mark Levine. Get used to it - I've had this happen my whole life and I probably stopped correcting people while Nixon was still in office! On this one, I think you owe Rich an apology. Rich grew up in Freehold among plenty of Jewish people, so I doubt his misspelling was anything more than his finger's laziness.

It's tough hitting the "L" while holding down the Caps lock. Then there's that space and that annoying "V" that requires you to hold down the caps lock, again.

As for the remainder of his post, I'm sure there are far more legitimate points for you to criticize.

[admin]

Aug 14, 2008 13:33:43 GMT -5 @stffgpr2003 said:

Let me first start by responding to Gene Kelsey's son, Richard. First of all, Richard, my last name is Le Vine, not Levine. I refer to you as Kelsey, not Kelsy, not Kalsey. The only reason I can see why you would spell it wrong is offensive and anti-semitic. Would you refer to an Irish person whose name is "O'Flaherty" as "oflaherty?"

Steven -

Don't make a federal case out of the name thing. My point was valid. Yours may not be. Before you start accusing anyone of anti-semitism, you better have better proof than just the spelling of a last name.

Kelsey? I thought he was Kelso!!! What does me calling him that make me - Casual Reader? LOL!!!

There are still even people on Council and in town that spell my name Mark Levine. Get used to it - I've had this happen my whole life and I stopped correcting people while Nixon was still in office! On that one, I think you owe Rich an apology. Rich grew up in Freehold among plenty of Jewish people, so I doubt his misspelling was anything more than his finger laziness.

It's tough hitting the "L" while holding down the Caps lock. Then there's that space and that annoying "V" that requires you to hold down the caps lock, again.

As for the remainder of his post, I'm sure there are far more legitimate points to criticize.

I didn't realize there was supposed to be a space in your name! I learn something new every day.

[misterpr1981]

I see your point.

But still, that is my last name. And it shows a lack of respect to call a person by anything else.

I will apologize for referring to it as anti-semitic, but I would also like an apology from Richard for referring to me "young levine." I think I am certainly owed that.

[bergsteiger]

“I kiss boys” shirt, high school age, Shocking! Did your parents know that you were wearing that?

[stffgpr2003]

"young levine."

Steven, he already apologized to me for the inference I made from this reference.

Rich made it clear it was not his intention to tie your thoughts and actions to mine. In any case, you are still "young Le Vine"as was I to my own father and as is Sean, also, to me.

Enough with semantics and surnames. Move on with whatever other substantive points you wish to make. That's what the other readers and posters are looking for.

[misterpr1981]

Bergsteiger, let me ask you something...if a high school girl wore a shirt that said "I kiss boys," would that be seen still in a negative light? Just some food for thought.

[stffgpr2003]

“I kiss boys” shirt, high school age, Shocking! Did your parents know that you were wearing that?

LOL!!! Actually, we did. AND IT WAS PINK!!! My wife and I were there when he bought it. She was actually shopping at Rue 21 in Lancaster and he found it on the clearance rack there.

At the time, we didn't know Steven was Gay and he told us he was buying it as a joke for $2 or $3. He took alot of flack from his very heterosexual brother for buying it.

We have silly senses of humor in this family. In college, I was probably the guy most likely to saran wrap a toilet seat or fill a dorm room with crumpled up newspapers! If you ever come over for a beer - I warn you! Check under the seat for a whoopee Cushion! And, check the color of your teeth after you accept a piece of chewing gum from me.

The part I didn't know is that he got in trouble for wearing it at work.

[misterpr1981]

LOL!!!!! You a**!!

Just for the record, it was a BLACK teeshirt that I bought in Hot Topic in the mall, that was supposed to be for gay guys, since the words were in rainbow. Now, at 26, I wouldn't wear something so lame, but in high school, it was pretty funny! No one cared...my high school was so diverse and open anyway.

The funny part is that they're STILL working at the same supermarket, and I now own my own PR firm. :-D The best revenge is doing well in life.

[richardkelsey]

Aug 14, 2008 13:06:10 GMT -5 misterpr1981 said:

Let me first start by responding to Gene Kelsey's son, Richard. First of all, Richard, my last name is Le Vine, not Levine. I refer to you as Kelsey, not Kelsy, not Kalsey. Why is it okay to change my last name, but no one else's? Would you refer to an Irish person whose name is "O'Flaherty" as "oflaherty?"

Moving on....the committee's mission statement shouldn't extend to all facets of the individual's life? Well, funny you say this, considering you expect the mayor and council to do the same. You only judge them by their roles in the government, and treat them as that's their only role.

Richard, you're obviously a poor businessman, as you should know that when you are hired by a company, anything you do outside of that realm that somehow demeans the integrity of that specific company, is grounds for dismissal. For example, back when I used to work in retail, when I was still in HS, I wore a shirt out that said "I Kiss Boys." Because someone I worked with at this supermarket saw me wearing it out and reported me for it, I almost got in trouble. I told them I'm allowed to wear whatever I'd like on my own time, and was given the lecture that I am a representative of this company and if I do something to demean its reputation, I can be disciplined. Now, this was probably homophobic, since a statement saying that I kiss guys isn't offensive at all, nor should be, but this was the same kind of talk I've heard other people go through. You are always representing the company or organization you work for, ESPECIALLY when you legally take an oath of office. This isn't a case of wearing a stupid shirt or dressing a certain way...this is actually making a conscious effort to go against the mission statement that one chose to abide by. A direct conflict of interest. If you don't understand this, Richard, you are not meant to be in business.

It does not matter if it's not the "official" FB web site. It's still a public site, started and maintained by someone who serves on a committee which mission is to spread positive perceptions. Don't you understand what Public Relations is? If not, maybe you should study up. That's what the whole basis of the committee is--the opposite of damaging the town's reputation.

Richard, no one has brought up party lines here, until you have again. You are absolutely naive if you think the way you think, based on your last post. And I know I would never want to get legal counsel from a naive attorney.

You are awfully young to carry such a large chip on your shoulder.

No -- I am not attacking you by mistakenly mistyping your name -- Mr. conspiracy man. Maybe ExxonMobil put me up to it. ;D

I see we are back to attacking my legal credentials. When you reach my level of education, experience, and reputation in the field, your comments will have more impact. Of course, if your were there, you would be experienced enough to refrain from such comments.

Now we are onto how horrible a businessman I am? You just moved out of your dad's house and all the sudden you are Bill Gates are you?

Now -- moving on to your attempt to make a substantive analogy. There is no comparison -- none -- to a volunteer committee person's obligations and their right to outside free speech as opposed to the limitations of conduct companies can put on employees as a condition of employment. If you don't understand the difference, then no words I write here are likely to help clarify that for you.

I find it interesting that you keep using the word naive to describe me. Let's examine the facts. I am almost 42 -- I have run many businesses. I am currently the President and COO of a IT security and software company specializing in computer forensics, litigation support, and cyber-fraud. I have a law degree. I have represented fortune 500 hundered companies in multi-million dollar cases as counsel. I have advised numerous campaigns, including at the Governor's level. I own my own home, I have 3 wonderful kids, I have run for office, I have been printed by numerous publications on inumerable issues. I have appeared on TV and radio as a guest and expert speaker. I have appeared at numerous panels as the same. I am the elected head of my law Alumni Association Board. When I graduated law school, I was elected by my fellow classmates to give the address. I have national awards for writing, and a sterling reputation in multiple industries and government circles as a result of my experience and, I hope, my considered judgment.

You just moved out of your parents house and you are in your 20's.

Who is niave we are left to wonder?

Now -- Mr. Le Vine -- we can continue this pissing contest as long as you want. You won't win becaue I am old, and I have to pee often.

However, If you want to impress me, or any other reader for that matter -- you can try to convince people why this site's efforts to use public shame and scorn by exposing woeful conditions of properties is bad for Freehold Borough and fails the overall mission of trying to improve, in the long run, the image of Freehold. Using concrete factual examples and logic, rather than attacking the personal character of the site's primary moderator, would be a great start.

For example -- you might argue that every additional public display that casts Freehold in a poor light is bad for the Borough and only serves to reinforce a negative image. (Putting aside the question we would then have to ask about why we have a negative image and who is to blame.)

I might counter that I agree that focusing solely on the bad things in Freehold could have a negative impact -- however, it is clear that the site itself focuses on many positive aspects of the Borough. (indeed the home page carries pictures of our beautiful hometown. )Thus, in its totality, we must examine why the Hall of Shame exists --- and look to see if it works as a tool to force remediation of certain issues through pressure and exposure. I might cite, as an example, the recent surprise and speedy fixing of the broken brick sidewalk that took place, coincidentally, after the site drew attention to the issue.

If we did that type of discussion -- we might get at the merits of the debate. But that assumes that we both want to discuss the merits of the debate. Maybe one or both of us just wants to shout the other down, discredit him or her, or create diversions from real debate.

I am happy to debate the merits of the Hall of Shame. I'll let you decide.

[misterpr1981]

I'm not even reading or responding to this longwinded diatrible. You're too much, Richard!!! HA HA!

[bergsteiger]

Aug 14, 2008 13:50:35 GMT -5 misterpr1981 said:

Bergsteiger, let me ask you something...if a high school girl wore a shirt that said "I kiss boys," would that be seen still in a negative light? Just some food for thought.

Now that you put it that way, I guess it's fine for a high school boy to wear.

[ka19]

Aug 14, 2008 14:19:56 GMT -5 bergsteiger said:

Aug 14, 2008 13:50:35 GMT -5 misterpr1981 said:

Bergsteiger, let me ask you something...if a high school girl wore a shirt that said "I kiss boys," would that be seen still in a negative light? Just some food for thought.

Now that you put it that way, I guess it's fine for a high school boy to wear.

Berg,

You "guess it's fine"? Who are you kidding? I saw you in the store wearing a halter top that said "I kiss boys." And you looked fabulous!

[bergsteiger]

Aug 14, 2008 14:28:23 GMT -5 ka19 said:

Aug 14, 2008 14:19:56 GMT -5 bergsteiger said:

Now that you put it that way, I guess it's fine for a high school boy to wear.

Berg,

You "guess it's fine"? Who are you kidding? I saw you in the store wearing a halter top that said "I kiss boys." And you looked fabulous!

You promised not to tell anyone

[admin]

[quote author=novillero board=anythingfreeholdborough thread=3719 post=16732 time=1218727053 [/quote]

Steve does have a point, sort of. However, there are very positive pages too. There is one called Boro Pride. The homepage also has some nice pics scrolling across it. There is also a page tracking the progress of the American Hotel (p.s. update that page too. Doors are up and look nice - also they pics should be dated...)

The Hall of Shame page does have a "disclaimer" of sorts. So, I do not think Brian is just focusing on the bad. There is a lot of good shown on the site. I think his Hall of Shame is really aimed at trying to get those things fixed, and not just pretending that they are not there.

I do think he needs to update that Hall of Shame page to show the fixed bricks.

Lastly, if he can only find 3 things to put on a hall of shame page, that's not too bad. He could have probably posted several other photos... Anyway, the police station picture is not exactly a horrible sight to behold. The gas station, however, is pretty ugly as evidenced through the pics posted. The bricks are minor... but the pic needs to be updated...[/quote]


To get back on topic....

Novillero, thanks for the reminder about the sidewalk. There is now a picture to reflect the positive change. All of those bikes that don't belong on sidewalks will have a better place to ride.

I also added some pics of the American Hotel. It is coming along very nicely. The new pics are at the bottom of that page, it is becoming a chore to flip around all of those pictures.

So right there we have two good positive pr things being shown off. Will the Debbie downers give credit for that? Nah, we will just hear more complaints. Those left wing malcontents are like that. ;D

But, of course being the malcontent that I am, there is also a new topic on the Hall of Shame page. I would like to dedicate that new topic to MisterPr1981 because he is such an inspiration. I cannot do that, though. I dedicate the new topic to Carl Steinberg who has been rightfully vocal in calling for the clean up of Throckmorton. People entering our town via that road are exposed to some of the worst PR that our town could have, worse than this or any other site could ever match.

In the near future I will also be adding quite a bit to the links pages.

www.people-fb.com

[misterpr1981]

Brian, aside from the separate discussion about "Conflict of Interest" and the CIC Committee, I have another concern with the Hall of Shame. My concern is that it's not really ethical, or just right, to point blame on the town or certain places around town (that are featured in the HOS) when you aren't privy to information on why these places look the way they are.

For example, my best friend's father owned the Exxon Station in town for a long time. I don't know if he has any dealings with it anymore, but let's just say for the sake of argument that this area was embroiled in a lawsuit with the state or county and because of that, no construction would be able to commence until the lawsuit ended. This would basically mean there would be nothing the town could do. In this case, is it right to still point blame on the town for something they have no judicial power over? Just a question I pose to you. I'm curious to see how you answer.

[misterpr1981]

Wow, a few fixed bricks..........He's a real Cory Booker.....

Now, getting back to my ORIGINAL question, before another mal tried shifting the topic away......

[admin]

Aug 14, 2008 18:02:28 GMT -5 misterpr1981 said:

Brian, aside from the separate discussion about "Conflict of Interest" and the CIC Committee, I have another concern with the Hall of Shame. My concern is that it's not really ethical, or just right, to point blame on the town or certain places around town (that are featured in the HOS) when you aren't privy to information on why these places look the way they are.

For example, my best friend's father owned the Exxon Station in town for a long time. I don't know if he has any dealings with it anymore, but let's just say for the sake of argument that this area was embroiled in a lawsuit with the state or county and because of that, no construction would be able to commence until the lawsuit ended. This would basically mean there would be nothing the town could do. In this case, is it right to still point blame on the town for something they have no judicial power over? Just a question I pose to you. I'm curious to see how you answer.

I think you are reading too much into things and being very defensive. Lets look at this.....

The text from the Exxon photos says:


These photos are of the former Exxon station. It is considered an eye sore that has sat abandoned for too long as it greets visitors to our town. This will remain in the Hall of shame until the property is better kept up.


Looking at the above, there is no reference to the governing body, let alone any blame aimed at them. Actually, there is no blame found in that text! The sweet justice in this is that without any blame or hostility having been cast at any, there are actions being taken behind the scenes to cure our urban blight.

And on this issue, I am aware of more than you realize.

The bricks....


The picture below was taken at Throckmorton Street and is found between Rita's Ice and a memorial on Throckmorton. The condition of this sidewalk has been like this for quite some time and needs to be fixed. This photo will be removed from the Hall of Shame when it is fixed.



Within a few weeks of this picture being posted, the town did fix the problem. The tree causing the problem was removed and the brick sidewalk was repaired.



Click on this box to go to discussions on the message board

I think this is where you really owe me an apology, Steve. No, I won't be holding my breath. The first part of the text was what was originally put up. This is an issue that is a municipal issue. I did not even mention the governing body or the municipal workers! Not until the second paragraph where the town took positive action and gave them credit for getting it done. IF anything, that approach I took makes the town look good!


Bennett /Hudson street school?


The picture on the right is of the former police station/school on Hudson/Bennett Street. This deserves to be in the Hall of Shame because it has been abandoned since 2003 when the police department moved to another location.



The property has been sold to a private person which did give us a bit of good news The sale of the building enabled the governing body to give the schools a one time shot in the arm of a few hundred thousand dollars.



Due to the length of time this building has been abandoned, this will stay in the hall of Shame until the building is better kept up and used for productive purposes in our town.


Again, very little directed at the town. Certainly nothing partisan or d**ning there.

And our favorite muster zone.....


Below are photos of the muster zone on Throckmorton Street. Of all things, this belongs in the Hall of Shame. Besides the obvious run down look of the area, it is also symbolic of the very real and negative consequences our town has dealt with pertaining to illegal immigration. This is the fault of government at all levels, federal, state, and local. The challenge here is directed at our governing body in the borough. What will you do to make things better? These pictures paint a bad picture.

Please read this carefully, young Le Vine. You will notice a non partisan mention of all levels of government. That is what illegal immigration is, government failure. The only mention of our local governing body is simply a challenge. An open, friendly challenge.

If I had wanted to use that page for hostile purposes, it would have been easy enough to take some real swings at the governing body. I easily could have listed their many mistakes from the past, as well as the present, in how they have handled themselves on this issue. I did not, though, did I? What you see is matter of fact and neutral.

Whether you like it or not, Steve, that issue has defined our town for too long. Whether they like it or not, the governing body has to pull their heads out of the sand and deal with this issue.

So there you go, Steve-O dude, your reality check of the day.

[novillero]

Aug 14, 2008 13:58:22 GMT -5 misterpr1981 said:

LOL!!!!! You a**!!

By the way, did you just call your dad an a-s-s on a public forum?

Not very nice. Remember that the Fourth Commandment (which my father always points out) was put before the Commandment of "Thou shall not kill."