Pay to Play

[Libyan Sibyl]

Will the 2008 candidates renounce pay to play? Pay to play is not limited to construction, but goes to any candidate (usually in power) that gets money through municipal appointments.

Don't think it occurs in the borough?
www.elec.state.nj.us/publicinformation.htm
At this site, you can find election filings from 1999 until present. Searches can be made by candidate, or by donor.

Marc can attest that when he ran in 1999 as a republican, the democrats were able to raise over double the amount than the republicans. How? well it seems that most donations that had to be reported (that is, over a certain amount) were from several businesses and professionals that obtain business from the borough. The Rug Mill owners have even been campaign donors in the past. This is legal, but is it proper?

I challenge the candidates to renounce any campaign contributions from companies or people that get business - or want business - from the town.

Should the council pass a ban on pay to play? Should the candidates reject money from anyone that gets business (or wants to get business) from the borough?

[richardkelsey]

Apr 11, 2008 10:55:10 GMT -5 Libyan Sibyl said:

Will the 2008 candidates renounce pay to play? Pay to play is not limited to construction, but goes to any candidate (usually in power) that gets money through municipal appointments.

Don't think it occurs in the borough?
www.elec.state.nj.us/publicinformation.htm
At this site, you can find election filings from 1999 until present. Searches can be made by candidate, or by donor.

Marc can attest that when he ran in 1999 as a republican, the democrats were able to raise over double the amount than the republicans. How? well it seems that most donations that had to be reported (that is, over a certain amount) were from several businesses and professionals that obtain business from the borough. The Rug Mill owners have even been campaign donors in the past. This is legal, but is it proper?

I challenge the candidates to renounce any campaign contributions from companies or people that get business - or want business - from the town.

Should the council pass a ban on pay to play? Should the candidates reject money from anyone that gets business (or wants to get business) from the borough?

I certainly respect your view and understand it. I know in some communities governing bodies take exactly those types of pledges.

The Commonwealth of Virginia has an interesting, and I think uniquely American way to police campaign contributions. It's simple really.

In Virginia, you can give anyone you want -- as much money as you want -- as long as you report your Name, for whom you work, and where you live.

So --- if you want to give me $1,000,000,000 to run for School Board -- you can.

The theory is that voters are not actually dumb. The theory is that people can see things that smell badly, and will act when the stench becomes unbearable. It is the essence of transparency to see who is trying to influence elections -- by how much, and possible why. Then voters can decide for themselves.

Which is better -- I know not. But, I like letting people give to whomever they want, and letting those who receive take from whomever they want. Then, I like the voters to decide what that all means. Unfortunately, no one knows better than me that most voters -- in fact close to 80%, vote solely on party lines -- and by the party with whom they more associate themselves with -- if they are independent. True independents, sole issue voters are very rare.

I have no problem with the owners of the Rub Mill contributing to any political candidate -- though they might want to contribute more to their own facility.

[novillero]

Apr 11, 2008 11:56:21 GMT -5 richardkelsey said:

...The theory is that voters are not actually dumb...

Unfortunately, I think that most politicians think the opposite. In fact, the rest of your post verifies this: voters vote along party lines regardless. We are dumb.

[richardkelsey]

Apr 11, 2008 13:27:14 GMT -5 novillero said:

Apr 11, 2008 11:56:21 GMT -5 richardkelsey said:

...The theory is that voters are not actually dumb...

Unfortunately, I think that most politicians think the opposite. In fact, the rest of your post verifies this: voters vote along party lines regardless. We are dumb.

I prefer -- "not as smart" as they think they are.


BTW -- that is completely consistent with my analysis on the Freehold 2008 election -- which I completed in the week or two after 2007. I love a contested election as much as anyone -- but trust me, Mother Theresa could not win as a member of the GOP in Freehold Borough in 2008 -- and that includes if she actually rose from the dead.

Why, it's a numbers game. Most people vote based on party lines. (even if they are not "registered" party members.")

The voting numbers overwhelmingly show democrat strength in Freehold, even in "off year" or low turnout years.

This year, you will have near record turnout. When you have record turnout in a town with a record of voting for dems -- you turnout more dems. That means you lose -- period.

Anyone who deludes themselves into believing that elections in one-party dominated towns or districts are about the quality of performance of those elected, just have no baseline understanding of politics.

Now -- can a republican win in Freehold. Sure. They need money. They need organization. They need a hot issue with an angry electorate that shows cross-over votes and depression of other party votes. (i.e. angry voters who chose not to vote) And, they need a lower turnout year where fewer causal voters vote. Casual voters equal party line voters -- and party line voters in a town with really strong party numbers in one party hurt an upset opportunity.

In fact, virtually every republican victory since Mayor Boyle, has bee a result of the right candidate, at the right time, helped by a significant issue.

Look -- if party made no difference -- several members of the Borough Council would be Republicans. But they know they cannot win that R on their chest. Even Mayor Wilson -- with the benefit of 25 plus years of service, would find it very hard to win if he switched parties and the dems ran a solid candidate against him in a large turnout year.

If I moved back to Freehold, converted to Democrat -- and was a good boy -- I could win. If I moved back to Freehold, did not convert, and ran the best campaign in the world, with money, organization, effort, and expertise -- winning would be very hard unless it were in an off year -- with a hot issue pending. Why -- because politics, sadly, is first about party, second about issues, and third about people, and Fourth about ideas. Now -- that might sound very sad, but that's reality.

You think John Corzine is the best the State has to offer? Corzine bought the dem nomination. The dems own the state, Corzine wins an a jog.

Now -- having said all that. Freehold is just small enough that an honest, hard-working, smart candidate from the minority party could win a tough election in an off year. But - he or she needs to be working hard -- round the clock.


BTW -- I am not picking on dems. Dems face the same problems in towns and jurisdictions where they are grossly outnumbered. All of which proves the original point -- which is people vote on party.

Prove me wrong. This is jsut a straight statistical prediction based on turnout and voting demographics. (Applicable only for 2008)

freeholdvoice.proboards46.com/v45index.cgi?action=display&board=republican&thread=1281&page=1

[lisas84]

Aw, Lisa! Now what did Mr. Miller do to deserve that personal attack? Seriously, that was not necessary. Let's try not to make any personal attacks against any candidate or any other individual; it opens the doors for this site to go straight down into the gutter, like Topix and others.

Your point was made very clear and well without the jibe. You often provide a refreshing, reasonable and intelligent, balancing viewpoint as well as a good sense of humor.

So, please all -- let's keep this site civil and perhaps even dignified.

[admin]

Apr 12, 2008 7:45:05 GMT -5 lisas84 said:

Aw, Lisa! Now what did Mr. Miller do to deserve that personal attack? Seriously, that was not necessary. Let's try not to make any personal attacks against any candidate or any other individual; it opens the doors for this site to go straight down into the gutter, like Topix and others.

Your point was made very clear and well without the jibe. You often provide a refreshing, reasonable and intelligent, balancing viewpoint as well as a good sense of humor.

So, please all -- let's keep this site civil and perhaps even dignified.

Good post lisa84, let us all be vigilant this year and not resort to cheap name calling or tactics. I really do not want to see the site degrade into a slugfest. There are plenty of campaign ideas that can provide us with ample discussions which are productive. I really do not want to see Ted, Geo, lachardi or Mike D degraded on any personal level and I will be watching out for that. I know that the "Republican fools" have no need to resort to low tactics. This year there is no good reason as to why the campaign is not about issues and ideas.

The pay to play is a topic well above and beyond just our little town. We need to go back to what LS asked to begin with:

I challenge the candidates to renounce any campaign contributions from companies or people that get business - or want business - from the town.

Should the council pass a ban on pay to play? Should the candidates reject money from anyone that gets business (or wants to get business) from the borough?

This topic has popped up all over the state. It is less to do with what is currently legal and more to do with open honest government and clean elections.

I think it is a worthy challenge for all of our candidates. After all, besides those crappy lawn signs, what else is there really to spend money on at the local level?

[novillero]

Apr 12, 2008 6:13:32 GMT -5 wlisa54 said:

There is a state law for "pay to play."

If LS thinks the Borough of Freehold did something wrong, then contact the attorney general as opposed to typing in a computer.

Listen closely you Republican fools. Following the state law is NOT A CRIME. Just because Miller doesn’t have enough scratch to pay for dinner, let alone a campaign, doesn’t mean that we have to change laws to make the playing field a little more even.

The Republicans run their campaign and the Democrats will run their campaign. If the Republicans pick people who don’t have the financial resources to run a campaign, then that is their problem.

perhaps the impetus to this posting was the Editorial from the APP on Thursday. Lisa, yes, tehre is a state law for "pay to play" but there is no total ban. The pay to play mentioned by LS was before any reform. the APP editorial notes that the reform has been too little.

www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080410/OPINION01/804100576/1029

Ethics reforms incomplete
Asbury Park Press editorial • April 10, 2008


Figures released this week by state election officials show that pay-to-play is alive and well in New Jersey. Firms that make contributions to political campaigns get huge returns on their investment. That's a major part of why it's so expensive to live in this state.

Data released by the state Election Law Enforcement Commission show that 669 firms that gave $15 million in political contributions received $5.17 billion in contracts from all levels of government. That's a return of $345 for every dollar donated. The rate of return will be higher when late campaign filings are included. Last year, the ratio was $500 to $1; it was about $410 initially. Either way, it's a lot of play for the pay.

The top donors are dominated by professionals such as engineers, lawyers and accountants. No surprise there. Topping the list was T&M Associates, an engineering firm based in Middletown. It reported $760,635 in contributions and $30.32 million in contracts.

The state has made some headway in slowing pay-to-play, but not nearly enough. The practice of using campaign cash to curry favor for public contracts is still deeply embedded in the political culture. Gov. Corzine should use the latest numbers to debunk the myth perpetuated by the legislative leadership that ethics reforms approved over the past few years have succeeded in changing the state's corrupt political culture.

Corzine must follow through on his campaign pledge to seek a comprehensive ban on pay-to-play that would affect campaign donations at all levels of government. The Democrats have repeatedly ignored Republicans' calls for a total ban, opting instead for watered-down legislation that fails to prohibit donors from wheeling money through county and municipal committees. The so-called "fair and open bidding" process, which allows low bidders to be bypassed for politically connected firms said to have more experience or specific expertise, also is ripe for an overhaul.

[admin]

Pay to play is largely a non partisna issue all over the state.

If the parties in our town were to make an issue of it and make it an open and public point to not engage in any pay to play, it would put our town in the news for a very positive reason.

[apple]

Apr 12, 2008 6:13:32 GMT -5 wlisa54 said:

There is a state law for "pay to play."

If LS thinks the Borough of Freehold did something wrong, then contact the attorney general as opposed to typing in a computer.

Listen closely you Republican fools. Following the state law is NOT A CRIME. Just because Miller doesn’t have enough scratch to pay for dinner, let alone a campaign, doesn’t mean that we have to change laws to make the playing field a little more even.

The Republicans run their campaign and the Democrats will run their campaign. If the Republicans pick people who don’t have the financial resources to run a campaign, then that is their problem.

"We were all Republicans in those days. The Democrats were training fire hoses on us, siccing dogs on us."
It is true that Southern Democrats, many of whom called themselves "Dixiecrats," blocked the social and political progress of black Southerners for decades. Among them was Sen. Robert C. Byrd (D-W.Va.), a former local leader in the Ku Klux Klan. Byrd has said he regrets his affiliation.
In 1960, King was arrested for trespassing during a sit-in and held in Georgia's Reidsville prison. Fearing for his son's life, Martin Luther King Sr. appealed to presidential candidate John F. Kennedy to secure his release. Robert Kennedy telephoned the judge and helped secure King's release. King, Sr. expressed his appreciation for these calls by switching his support to Kennedy. King, Sr. had been a lifelong registered Republican, and had endorsed Republican Richard Nixon. King, Jr. made no endorsement,
The younger King voted for Kennedy, and for Democrat Lyndon B. Johnson four years later.
When King was freed, his father vowed to deliver 10 million votes to the Democrat, even though Kennedy was only a reluctant supporter of civil rights. That began four decades of black people voting for liberals.
After Martin Luther King, Jr.'s death in 1968, King Sr. continued to serve as pastor of the Ebenezer Baptist Church until 1975. His wife Alberta was murdered in June 1974.

[novillero]

I don't know what the above post is trying to get at.

Pay to play is something that has been legal in this state for years. And legal or not, it smacks of impropriety. Campaign finance is something that troubles all levels of government. It is not a Freehold problem, but a problem in general. And should the democrats in town have their offices filled by republicans, it's no less or greater of a problem.

There's just got to be a better way to do things.

[admin]

[quote author=novillero board=republican thread=3211 post=13908 time=1208090826
There's just got to be a better way to do things.[/quote]

Yes, it is called third party. Imagine if we wind up with a three way race in the borough? That would be very cool.

[lisas84]

Apple,

An unusual quote -- can you cite the source for that and the historical info you posted? Also, how does your info reflect this particular thread?

Thanks!

[admin]

LS,

Either I am doing something wrong, or there is nothing to be found on that web site you provided. I have tried a couple of names and got nothing back.