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Post by Guest on Mar 24, 2007 7:56:29 GMT -5
Geo Many State UNFUNDED Mandates!!! Plus, Public schools cannot turn RESIDENTS away. Special Education, ESL, Bi-Lingual, Out of district placements costing over $40K per student...  |
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Post by LS on Mar 24, 2007 13:38:32 GMT -5
I got news for you, if Freehold was able to turn away students, the cost per student would go up, not down. The school would not spend substantially less (perhaps buy less text books but the high costing infrastructure and adminstration would still be there)and would have less children - thereby bringing up the average dollar amount.
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Post by admin on Mar 24, 2007 15:41:51 GMT -5
I got news for you, if Freehold was able to turn away students, the cost per student would go up, not down. The school would not spend substantially less (perhaps buy less text books but the high costing infrastructure and administration would still be there)and would have less children - thereby bringing up the average dollar amount. Bingo! I wonder what the cost per pupil would be if we had the number of children if the schools we are supposed to have, as opposed to the over crowding? And, what would the student to teacher ratio be then, as well? |
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Post by Phyllis on Mar 24, 2007 21:47:33 GMT -5
St. Rose turned us away, Geo, after being a part of their preschool program for two years. The way they did it was nothing less than sneaky and disgraceful. They sent their denial letters over a holiday, so a number of days passed before you were even able to leave a message. I left many phone messages. I wrote a letter asking for an explanation. I personally went to the office. I never received a reply. Even as the parent of a current student finishing out the rest of the year, they never, ever got back to me. Their way of doing business was shameful.
Seeing how they treated people convinced me that they did us a favor. But don't deny that they turn people away.
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Post by MB on Mar 25, 2007 7:30:03 GMT -5
Geo How many Autistic children go to St Rose? How Many Learning Disabled? How Many English Langugae Learners? Also what do they do when the reach the max class size? TURN YOU AWAY!!!. The Public Schools cannot turn people away!  |
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Post by Phyllis on Mar 25, 2007 14:43:05 GMT -5
Along the same lines, the church later treated me so disgracefully that their behavior followed suit.
There was the time I had a mass said at St. Rose for my deceased mother, and the priest botched the pronunciation of her name from the altar, then made a joke out of it. This was with some elderly relatives sitting next to me, having traveled from out of town. The name he had a hard time with with "Clarke." One syllable. Nothing complicated about it. To mock it from the altar is inexcusable. How do you think my mother's sister felt?
Then there was the time I went to the church office to request that my father's name be included among the deceased at the mass announcements. He had died the week before on Thanksgiving morning. The woman in the St. Rose rectory fought with me about doing it. I was absolutely appalled at her behavior. I finally told her the church was supposed to be a source of comfort, and left in tears.
My father had been a member and officer of the Knights of Columbus for 61 years. His uncle was pastor of a church and one step away from being a Bishop, and when he himself died Cardinal Spellman attended his funeral. We certainly have roots and contributions with the Catholic Church that rival the average folk.
I still tried being involved, volunteering for a couple of years as a CCD instructor. I thought it would be a good idea to try to be part of the solution. Again, things fell short in my opinion.
I could go on. I have known many people with their own stories of atrocious treatment by St. Rose, and they get away with it. Both the St. Rose school and St. Rose church have left oh, so much to be desired with me. I will never set foot in there again.
But back to the education, I also know of folks who have been turned away because of behavioral issues, which is a luxury the public schools do not have.
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Post by MB on Mar 25, 2007 19:21:25 GMT -5
Geo
So what do we do with the Austic, ELL and Learning Disabled Children??? Turn them away like St Rose too...
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Mar 25, 2007 21:25:24 GMT -5
 Teachers are underpaid,to start...I know, one may argue that public school teachers are overpaid, and the union, Simply the labor cost is not to scale as with a public schools! |
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Mar 25, 2007 21:30:00 GMT -5
www.irishecho.com/newspaper/story.cfm?id=17064One glaring difference between public and private schools is teacher pay. While some might expect public school teachers to fare poorly in this department, New York City teachers actually make some of the highest salaries in the nation. New York City public schoolteachers get a base pay of $39,900 to start out. Because of a requirement within the Department of Education that all public schoolteachers must have a master's degree or at least be working towards one, the salary increases with credits earned. As they are private entities, there is so set pay scale for Catholic schoolteachers in the New York Archdiocese or Brooklyn and Queens diocese. Still, it is markedly less than what public teachers make. Though the Federation of Catholic Teachers recently agreed to a contractual pay hike with the Archdiocese, average starting pay was a paltry $26,000 for freshman parochial teachers. The union, which represents 3,200 Catholic schoolteachers, struck a deal that calls for wage hikes of 4 percent the first year, and 3 percent and 5 percent the following years. Health insurance, a major sticking point, was also ironed out. Last year, the fight was so fierce at one point that teachers staged sickout at area Catholic schools, leaving parents with a headache and nowhere to turn. Even with the hike, salary difference is even more marked at the upper levels. Because most parochial teachers are lay and are not required to have advanced degrees, salaries rarely top out over $40,000. Compared to the over $80,000 a public school teacher can make after 22 years of service, the difference is clear, though the choice to teach in a Catholic school is worth the lost income for some. Some teachers find that it is worth the pay cut for the stability and environment synonymous with Catholic schools. Still, Internet message boards are full of teacher's gripes, one from recently vetted public school teachers who left the parochial school system and asked if the only way a teacher can work in a Catholic school is if they are married and make dual incomes. The public school salary ladder is due in no small part due to the powerful union at work for teachers. The United Federation of Teachers is currently locked in battle with city administration over the fight for a contract. City teachers have been working without one since May 2003.
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Post by LS on Mar 26, 2007 8:33:31 GMT -5
Geo How many Autistic children go to St Rose? How Many Learning Disabled? How Many English Langugae Learners? Also what do they do when the reach the max class size? TURN YOU AWAY!!!. The Public Schools cannot turn people away! Although I think these sentiments are correct (rhetorically I ask what is learning disabled? it can be defined by a matter of degrees), I don't think that was the point of the argument. Do you think that autistic kids, learning disabled and english language learners double the cost of tuition. It is also well known that Catholic school teachers make a lot less than their public school counterparts. So yes, there are valid points to the lower tuition, but that is not the rest of the story. Again, I think you also have to put Freehold Boro into proper perspective: if the number of kids were reduced in each class from 26 per class to 19 per class, the amount it cost to teach each student would rise. Obviously, Catholic schools are at an advantage to minimize class size. They make the choice of not overcrowding classes; they also have the option of turning away students, but I don't think they cherrypick the best students - that is definitely not the case. They also do not have the most up-to-date technology and are working with older equipment. But there is a lesson to be learned somewhere in there - capping salaries, doing the most with the least and administration. I don't think that anyone could argue differently. As to Geo's son, isn't it the case that he has the very same perception that the rest of society has? My wife and I contemplated trying our hands at public school education for the same reasons: tons of vacation and sick days, great benefits, pretty good salary, and the teaching is repetitive - you can be lazy(meaning after you do it a few times, you have it down pat - i.e., if you want to; but it also means that a highschool math teacher has courses that repeat several times during the day. There are only so many math classes being taught in any school. And, you as the teacher, are in control of your own workload. No doubt some teachers assign themselves more work than others.) |
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Post by richardkelsey on Mar 26, 2007 10:25:24 GMT -5
St. Rose turned us away, Geo, after being a part of their preschool program for two years. The way they did it was nothing less than sneaky and disgraceful. They sent their denial letters over a holiday, so a number of days passed before you were even able to leave a message. I left many phone messages. I wrote a letter asking for an explanation. I personally went to the office. I never received a reply. Even as the parent of a current student finishing out the rest of the year, they never, ever got back to me. Their way of doing business was shameful. Seeing how they treated people convinced me that they did us a favor. But don't deny that they turn people away. St. Rose turned my brother's children away. (probably 12-13 years ago.) I kid you not -- our family probably put more kids through that school than just about any family -- ever. He was a Borough resident -- lifelong -- a graduate of the school, and a communicant of the Church. At that time he was told -- actually told -- that because he did not use the envelope system, they could not be sure he was practicing. Of course, we applied sufficient pressure that they were going to admit them -- but to my brother's credit, he told them to pound sand. Anyway -- his kids went and are going through the Borough Schools. They have all done and are doing well. |
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Post by guest on May 1, 2007 18:20:24 GMT -5
I wonder if the cost of St. Rose has something to do with the fact that they don't have to comply with the multitude of unfunded mandates from the federal and state government that public schools are required to comply with in order to qualify for aid. NCLB comes to mind.
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Post by admin on May 2, 2007 7:59:50 GMT -5
I wonder if the cost of St. Rose has something to do with the fact that they don't have to comply with the multitude of unfunded mandates from the federal and state government that public schools are required to comply with in order to qualify for aid. NCLB comes to mind. Maybe ST. Rose can run our schools. Anyway, there is a good piece in the APP today. www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070502/OPINION/705020359/1030 |
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