|
|
Post by admin on Apr 9, 2008 5:48:05 GMT -5
I have put this topic up several times but this article deserves its own thread. Here is the link for previous discussions from this site. freeholdvoice.proboards46.com/index.c.cgi?board=mayorandtowncouncil&action=display&thread=1203176887Here is the article. newstranscript.gmnews.com/news/2008/0409/Front_page/017.htmlCouncil to offer support for proposed legislation Bills in Trenton focus on hiring of illegals and residential overcrowding BY CLARE MARIE CELANO Staff Writer FREEHOLD - Members of the Borough Council were expected to approve a pair of resolutions on April 7 that support proposed state legislation which seeks to crack down on residential overcrowding and to ban the intentional hiring of illegal aliens by business operators. Officials believe the legislation, if passed by the Assembly and Senate and eventually signed into law by the governor, could have an impact on Freehold Borough. Overcrowding in rental housing has been an issue in the borough in the recent past. An influx of immigrants who are looking for affordable housing and a rise in absentee ownership of residential properties have been cited as reasons why this situation is occurring. S-164, whose primary sponsor is Sen. Anthony Bucco (R-Morris County), "would allow municipalities to adopt ordinances authorizing the issuance of summonses upon certain landlords and tenants alleged to have violated occupancy requirements resulting in overcrowding. "The bill would allow for the imposition of fines upon a culpable landlord or tenant of up to $2,500 for a first violation, $5,000 for a second violation and $10,000 for each subsequent violation. These fines would be in addition to any other fines or penalties authorized by law. The bill would require that a hearing be held before any fines could be imposed. The bill would not be applicable to seasonal rentals or to buildings with more than four residential rental units." Mayor MichaelWilson said, "We are in favor of anything that increases fines." The mayor said he believes the bill will be helpful in sending the word out to landlords who do not pay close attention to what is going on at their rental properties. The bill which addresses overcrowding clarifies existing law by distinguishing between illegal occupancy resulting in overcrowding that is caused by landlords and that which is caused by tenants. It specifies that landlords would not be obligated to pay for a tenant's relocation when the tenant's own conduct is the principal cause of the residential overcrowding. Councilman Marc Le Vine said, "We have supported Sen. Bucco's bill in the past and we will support it each and every time it is presented until it becomes New Jersey law. "Freehold Borough understands, better than any other town, what it will take to curb the illegal and offensive behaviors of non-compliant landlords and their inconsiderate tenants involved in the overcrowding of rental properties," the councilman said. He said the bill would adequately punish landlords who sometimes treat the smaller fines they receive for overcrowding as a normal cost of doing business. "Often many slumlords will divide today's lesser fines among their tenants to pay. To them we say try doing that with up to $10,000. To level the playing field a bit, this bill also gives landlords a greater ability to evict tenants who encourage and allow overcrowding at (the landlord's) properties, often unbeknownst to them," Le Vine explained.
In addition to the bill which focuses on residential overcrowding, state Senate Majority Leader Sen. Stephen Sweeney (D-Salem, Cumberland and Gloucester) has introduced legislation that seeks to punish businesses operators who knowingly hire illegal aliens.
S-1312 prohibits the employment of illegal aliens. According to the document, the bill will impose penalties on employers who knowingly or intentionally employ people who are not in the United States legally.
The bill states that "for the first violation where an employer knowingly hired unauthorized aliens, a court shall order the employer to terminate such employment, to be subject to a three-year probationary period during which the employer shall submit quarterly reports for each new hire, to file a sworn affidavit within three business days after the order has been issued or face the suspension of any business license held by the employer until such time as a signed affidavit is filed. In addition, a court may consider a number of factors surrounding the violation and order the suspension of any business license for a period not to exceed 10 business days.
"For the first violation where an employer intentionally hired unauthorized aliens, a court shall order the employer to terminate such employment; a five-year probationary period during which the employer shall submit quarterly reports for each new hire; the suspension of any business license for a minimum of 10 days after considering all the facts surrounding the violation; and the employer to file a sworn affidavit until which all licenses shall remain suspended."
Under this proposal, any second violation will order the permanent revocation of any and all of the employers' business licenses issued by the state or any political subdivision of the state.
State Sen. Robert Singer (R-Ocean, Monmouth, Burlington, Mercer) is a cosponsor of both bills. Singer is a member of the Township Committee in Lakewood, a municipality which has dealt with the same type of issues - residential overcrowding and the employment of illegal aliens- that Freehold Borough has faced over the past decade.
Singer said S-1312 targets employers who hire illegal aliens who do not pay federal and state taxes, unemployment taxes or disability taxes.
"They are able to charge less than the competition and the rest of us are picking up the tab for them," Singer said. "This bill does not go after individuals, it goes after businesses. If you hire someone, that person must present a legitimate Social Security card and there are ways now to prove that. It is the employer's responsibility to do the right thing. If they don't, it costs others thousands, for instance, if a worker gets hurt on the job."
Singer said employers who hire undocumented workers are taking jobs away from legal citizens who may need the work.
"The honest businessman is losing out here. What kind of message are we sending to them?" he asked.
Singer said employers must hire employees properly or "pay the price."
"Hire someone in the proper way, period," the senator added.
According to Le Vine, S-1312 is currently under consideration in the Senate Labor Committee. He said the passage of this bill would "go a long way in solving our state's illegal alien problem."
Le Vine said it is any mayor's and council's responsibility to encourage, monitor, communicate and support any and all state and federal legislation that seeks to protect their town's residents from unlawful abuses, which negatively affect their lives.
"In this particular case, the abuse comes at the hands of the many employers who knowingly and deliberately ignore state and federal employment laws to hire those not authorized to work in the United States. By doing so they suppress fair wages, keep jobs away from those legally entitled to accept them and very often take advantage of undocumented workers, who are not anyone's radar screen," he said.
"Allowing illegal employment to prevail only seeks to continue the status quo of a broken system feeding an underground economy comprised of greed and freedom from the legal and personal accountabilities," Le Vine said. "These are the responsibilities accepted by all honest and hard working Americas.
"The argument that employment laws can be overlooked just because people need to work, or because employers need to fill jobs nobody wants or to use tax dollars instead of profits to artificially increase wages are all very weak defenses for permitting illegal employment to flourish. If the borough supports Sen. Sweeny's legislation, it is because it is our legal and moral right to do so, along with our pledged responsibility to do what is right for America, New Jersey and Freehold Borough," the councilman added.
|
|
ka19
Junior Member
Posts: 356
|
Post by ka19 on Apr 9, 2008 10:00:55 GMT -5
Marc LeVine's quote:
"Freehold Borough understands, better than any other town, what it will take to curb the illegal and offensive behaviors of non-compliant landlords and their inconsiderate tenants involved in the overcrowding of rental properties," the councilman said.
Marc,
Freehold Boro is a gem, and I was lucky to find that out because of the perception I had going in that this was an embattled little town overrun by illegals. When a couple of friends of mine told me that they bought a house in FB, I told them they were crazy. That was before I visited them. Now, I live around the corner.
I wonder how many thousands of young couples looking to buy a home together carry the same attitudes about FB that I carried before I really saw it for myself.
Reports have estimated that there are several hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants in the state of NJ. The truth is that there are so many municipalities that have to deal with these very same problems that we are dealing with.
Nothing good comes out of constantly reinforcing the false and damaging perception that illegal immigration is an especially Freehold Boro problem. It is not. It is a problem in dozens upon dozens of municipalities, and there is an illegal immigrant presence in virtually EVERY municipality in this state.
We must continue to publicly support state efforts to deal with the problem in a meaningful way, because we know that it's the right thing to do.
However, the time has come for us to take on a different public persona from the "embattled small town overrun by illegals" thing we have going on.
If the town's objective is to attract new owner occupied property owners and new businesses, our image needs to be changed dramatically, and it starts by publicly supporting state efforts, but let the papers find another town to be the poster child of this problem. You know what I mean?
I want to see more quotes from councilpeople concerning downtown and American Hotel news, the good school system and the great neighborhoods.
|
|
|
|
Post by stffgpr2003 on Apr 9, 2008 10:35:40 GMT -5
...and you will. Unfortunately, we cannot turn a blind eye to some of the issues that effect our town. Illegal immigration has had more of an impact here and in Lakewood than in many of our surrounding towns. To your point, though, the Mayor and Council acknowledged that it's the federal government's overall responsibility to address illegal immigration, some time ago. The Council also seems to feel that the State and County may have roles to play in helping to improve the situation - ergo recent actions to publicly request and support their efforts. The town must also continue to address property maintenance issues, which happen to involve many of our absentee landlords and their irresponsible and often inconsiderate tenants. We can not go soft on those that violate our ordinances (it's not everybody, just many). Bad publicity for violators is a necessary deterrent that has been shown to help curb their behaviors here and in other towns. The public also wants to know that things are getting done to improve the situation. With the Neighborhood Pride Committee in action, the Borough will now add more positive reinforcement and neighborhood peer pressure to the quality of life equation. This will help to improve all of our streets and community life in Freehold Borough. It's in everyone's interest - landlords, tenants and occupied homeowners to clean up and fix up their properties. It can be a pleasant experience and help can be offered to this end. And, most important, we should all have a little fun and share a little camaraderie making Freehold Borough an even better place to live and raise a family. Barkalow Avenue challenges Kiawah Avenue to a talent contest! How about that? LOL!!!! In supporting the State's efforts to curb illegal immigration and deal with bad landlords and tenants, the council was doing exactly what you recommend. The Mayor has also asked the county to request 287g for itself, because he feels that it is the best place to run that program from, rather than have the Borough do it. The Community Information Committee is still rather new and is gearing up to positively promote the town. They have some great ideas and some talented people to pull it off. I love the Borough and think it is a great place to live. I grew up around town, my grandparents lived here and I moved into town in 1981. My sons went to school here and I have been happy to serve on committees and be active on the council. There are many good things taking place around town and we expect there to be many exciting announcements forthcoming about our great town. I hope to be making many of those announcements and sharing plenty of good news in the future. Your positive outlook is noted and appreciated. Let's hope it is also contagious. THANK YOU!!! Marc  |
|
|
|
Post by novillero on Apr 9, 2008 10:49:40 GMT -5
A thought about publicity of violaters: it's a double edged sword. You may shame someone, but you are also advertising problems within the borough and reinforcing negative perceptions. Instead of thinking, "code enforcement is on the ball," many people may think, "wow, more overcrowding in Freehold, will it ever stop?"
With that said, any story about a Borough violation should have a portion of the story devoted to how the problem has been abated, and that things are getting much better. Headlines should reflect the good news, instead of a sensationalistic headline. But, those things are up to the Transcript on how it's stories are worded and what it's headlines will read.
Are there numbers, stats, etc that are readily available that can be shared regarding the quality of life problems?
|
|
|
|
Post by lisas84 on Apr 9, 2008 10:51:35 GMT -5
KA 19,
Your post is exactly the reason I am so happy to have invited you to our next Community Information Committee meeting.
I absolutely agree with Marc about your positive outlook. Positive energy and volunteerism devoted to this town, in my opinion, will help ensure its thriving success. We all must work together in our unique individual ways.
|
|
ka19
Junior Member
Posts: 356
|
Post by ka19 on Apr 9, 2008 11:00:21 GMT -5
A thought about publicity of violaters: it's a double edged sword. You may shame someone, but you are also advertising problems within the borough and reinforcing negative perceptions. Instead of thinking, "code enforcement is on the ball," many people may think, "wow, more overcrowding in Freehold, will it ever stop?" With that said, any story about a Borough violation should have a portion of the story devoted to how the problem has been abated, and that things are getting much better. Headlines should reflect the good news, instead of a sensationalistic headline. But, those things are up to the Transcript on how it's stories are worded and what it's headlines will read. Are there numbers, stats, etc that are readily available that can be shared regarding the quality of life problems? To Marc, thanks for your reply. I like what the Mayor and Council is doing, although we all can agree that everything in life can always be improved. My point is that if we must publicly acknowledge that there is a problem, we must take that opportunity to put much greater emphasis on all the efforts and positive results that have come about. This way, the audience is left with a feeling that we are up and coming, rather than mired in trouble. Novillero post, which I quoted above, hit the nail on the head. |
|
ka19
Junior Member
Posts: 356
|
Post by ka19 on Apr 9, 2008 11:02:08 GMT -5
KA 19, Your post is exactly the reason I am so happy to have invited you to our next Community Information Committee meeting. I absolutely agree with Marc about your positive outlook. Positive energy and volunteerism devoted to this town, in my opinion, will help ensure its thriving success. We all must work together in our unique individual ways. Thanks. And I agree with all that we need more positive energy in this town. |
|
|
|
Post by stffgpr2003 on Apr 9, 2008 12:15:11 GMT -5
Novillero -
Remember that publicizing the names of code enforcement violators in the local newspapers was one of the Rental Advisory Committee's 14 recommendations.
The recommendation was generally well received when it was made, last year. But, you are right about the news needing some balance to encourage more positive and acceptable behaviors from others, while also highlighting the progress being made. It would be nice if most articles could end in as much of an upbeat manner, as possible.
Perhaps, the CIC can assist the town with some recommendations that may accomplish this. After all, that committee was created to communicate a favorable impression of the town....to stimulate interest in the Borough...to attract businesses, families and visitors to the town. We need to give them plenty of good words to share. They also seem pretty good at finding good news, by the way!
Fortunately, Clare Celano, at the News Transcript, is usually open to helpful suggestions regarding her news stories. I have personally found Kim Predham at the Asbury Park Press to be a fairly good listener is usaully willing to seek out the thoughts and impressions of many prior to publishing her news stories.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, Novillero. I'm all for positiveness in the news and I also want our residents to know that this shouldn't come at the expense of leaving out what they think they need to know and want to know or whatver helps the system work better.
Marc
|
|
|
|
Post by stffgpr2003 on Apr 9, 2008 12:28:50 GMT -5
Sorry. I needed to answer your question. This is public information and there have been monthly reports detailing the progress for the past few years. We have new code enforcement software that can produce even better reports.
The local Press has always gotten copies of these reports and decided what was newsworthy. Generally, when they have done their stories, in the past, they have asked for data updates and have tried to include relevent info from our stats to support the writing.
Marc
|
|
|
|
Post by admin on Apr 10, 2008 7:54:19 GMT -5
Marc LeVine's quote: "Freehold Borough understands, better than any other town, what it will take to curb the illegal and offensive behaviors of non-compliant landlords and their inconsiderate tenants involved in the overcrowding of rental properties," the councilman said. Marc, Freehold Boro is a gem, and I was lucky to find that out because of the perception I had going in that this was an embattled little town overrun by illegals. When a couple of friends of mine told me that they bought a house in FB, I told them they were crazy. That was before I visited them. Now, I live around the corner. I wonder how many thousands of young couples looking to buy a home together carry the same attitudes about FB that I carried before I really saw it for myself. Reports have estimated that there are several hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants in the state of NJ. The truth is that there are so many municipalities that have to deal with these very same problems that we are dealing with. Nothing good comes out of constantly reinforcing the false and damaging perception that illegal immigration is an especially Freehold Boro problem. It is not. It is a problem in dozens upon dozens of municipalities, and there is an illegal immigrant presence in virtually EVERY municipality in this state. We must continue to publicly support state efforts to deal with the problem in a meaningful way, because we know that it's the right thing to do. However, the time has come for us to take on a different public persona from the "embattled small town overrun by illegals" thing we have going on. If the town's objective is to attract new owner occupied property owners and new businesses, our image needs to be changed dramatically, and it starts by publicly supporting state efforts, but let the papers find another town to be the poster child of this problem. You know what I mean? I want to see more quotes from councilpeople concerning downtown and American Hotel news, the good school system and the great neighborhoods. ka19, What a fantastic response on this thread! The discussions here have become very good and shows us all that double edged sword that Novillero referred to. You are very right to write about the goodness in this town. People need to see it and realize that there is more to this town than that one certain topic which dominates everywhere. On the other side, we did not ask for the illegal immigration issue in this town. It found its way to us and at this point in time, after many years of dealing with it, no person in their right mind can say that illegal immigration has been good for us. I write that less against the actual illegal aliens and more against he numbers, economics and very hostile, intolerant and hateful supporters of the illegal immigrant movement. ( See the recent letters in the NT). Every good person in this town has to be able and willing to look our problems in the eye and face them down. That is especially true of our elected leaders. The problems are not going to go way. I applaud the governong body for the resolution and for any activism they may engage in. That is the right thing to do. When it comes to dealing with illegal immigration, we have much work ahead to off set the negative consequenses and the negative perceptions our town now has. Part of those solutions are via positive initiatives which at times may not even have anything to do with that one certain issue. For this town to move forward, it also requires people who are willing to step to the plate and do the right things to redifine our town to what it deserves. The CIC and the community pride committee are tow such endeavors. I personally have no use for people who are constantly negative and cannot see the good in this town and its people. Those who do not see the good will never push this town in the right direction. |
|
|
|
Post by quidproquo on Apr 10, 2008 9:16:45 GMT -5
"After all, that committee was created to communicate a favorable impression of the town....to stimulate interest in the Borough...to attract businesses, families and visitors to the town. We need to give them plenty of good words to share. "
In Foodtown last night I over heard two older gentleman engaged in town talk. One man claimed the Kruse Night calamity is a deliberate diversion. He explained about a larger municipality vexation, the growing organized crime group rooted behind a convenience store on Park Ave selling drugs, prostitution and so on.
The other fellow went on to say that at least three guns have been taken off the street by our police too.
If the councilman denies this information then please delete this post and ban me.
|
|
|
|
Post by stffgpr2003 on Apr 10, 2008 9:19:00 GMT -5
Brian & KA19:
Yes, this discussion has been very good. But, it is not without the need for some further clarification, which Brian's reply indicates may be needed.
The original newspaper quote that kicked off Ka19's astute commentary may be slightly confused. I can understand why this is.
On Monday night the town council supported two unrelated pieces of legislation that were tied together in Clare Celano's article. The quote KA19 referred to relates to the towns "experience" with code enforcement issues and is not related to the employment verification issue and IT'S direct tie to illegal immigration (though the bill's sponsors are only after the employers that hire illegally). It's just that these two very different bills hit Trenton at about the same time. They just happened to be supported by our town, on the same night.
The employment verification issue is one that many wish the State of New Jersey will eventually pass and aggressively enforce, statewide. It will address illegal hiring in EVERY New Jersey town (not just Freehold Borough). And, it will apply to every New Jersey employer from Cape May to Mahwah.
Perhaps, if many states adopt this sort of legislation (Arizona already has), it will force the federal government to seek legal uniformity throughout the nation and take back control of their immigration issue by speeding up national immigration reform and its related enforcement.
The overcrowding bill will deal with another issue, statewide. But, it is a separate issue and it is a municipal issue. Yes. Should Bucco's bill pass muster, it will be very useful in towns, which have had more of their share of landlord and tenant abuse. No, Freehold Borough is not the only town with such code enforcement issues. However, this is not considered an anti-illegal immigration measure. It is not that. It does not matter who is involved in overcrowding, only that it is proved that overcrowding is taking place.
Overcrowding is a safety issue. It is only a problem because a large handful of bad landlords and some inconsiderate tenants allow it to be. While there may be many illegal immigrants involved in overcrowding as tenants, the focus here is on the significant number of bad landlords and those inconsiderate tenants that are engaged in this illegal and unsafe practice.
NOT every landlord is a bad landlord, by the way. Not every landlord in Freehold Borough has received a violation for overcrowding, either. In fact, if all the bad landlords left town and were replaced by good landlords, our housing stock would probably remain the same, though with fewer violations. Same for the bad tenants. For every bad tenant, there are at least, five good ones that respect the law and value their neighbor's good quality of life.
It would be nice to see many rental properties turned back into owner occupied homes in our towns. Many towns want this because it helps create a greater sense of community. When people own homes; live in them; and feel as if they have a stake in their home community, they take a more active part in their hometown's well being. Their property usually shows more attention to upkeep and their homes "smile" with neighborhood pride. After all, it's the resident's primary residence, rather than a mere piece of income property. Or for some, just a cash cow to be milked.
I hope you see my point. Still...there is the need for good PR for our town and that is a goal of the Mayor and Council.
Marc
|
|
|
|
Post by novillero on Apr 10, 2008 9:25:58 GMT -5
" After all, that committee was created to communicate a favorable impression of the town....to stimulate interest in the Borough...to attract businesses, families and visitors to the town. We need to give them plenty of good words to share. " In Foodtown last night I over heard two older gentleman engaged in town talk. One man claimed the Kruse Night calamity is a deliberate diversion. He explained about a larger municipality vexation, the growing organized crime group rooted behind a convenience store on Park Ave selling drugs, prostitution and so on. The other fellow went on to say that at least three guns have been taken off the street by our police too. If the councilman denies this information then please delete this post and ban me. Okay, I'll accept everything you said as fact. But here is what I don't get: Kruize Night is a deliberate diversion? Could you elaborate more? A diversion from the other issues? How? Please connect the dots a little bit more for me as I don't understand the inter-relationship. MODIFICATION TO POST: perhaps we should move this to a separate thread as it is not related to the Bucco/Sweeney Bill or overcrowding. |
|
|
|
Post by stffgpr2003 on Apr 10, 2008 9:44:25 GMT -5
Quidproquo.
With all due respect, I think your post - itself - is more of a diversion than the ridiculous claim that the substantive discussion about Kruize Night has any other purpose than to decide if the event is still right for our town. And, if it can be modified to address the many organizational issues that concern our residents, visitors and business people.
Hearsay is often the product of active imaginations. It's better confined to the frozen food section of the local supermarket than given over to offering up a thawed sense of truth.
Marc
|
|
|
|
Post by quidproquo on Apr 10, 2008 9:51:35 GMT -5
there is the need for good PR for our town and that is a goal of the Mayor and Council.
The Kruse Night calamity is not great PR. 7 housing violation out of 1900 rental units is not great PR. Forget PR and simply get things done. Stores left vacant in Downtown for a year. The Exxon Station on Spring and Main is now a blighted building on the e. Main Street gateway to Downtown. The developer started excavation over a year ago and stopped cold. How did this happen. They must be waiting for steel. The other Gateway to Downtown on Throckmorton andw. Main St. is lined with vagrant Day laborers covering the street. PR can be a wonderful bonus. Without truth in advertising you get a rotten reputation. PR needs substance to support it. Please let there be substance is all I recomend. Here is a good model to simulate www.redbankgreen.com/redbankgreen/2008/week6/index.html
|
|
|
|
Post by admin on Apr 10, 2008 9:56:19 GMT -5
" After all, that committee was created to communicate a favorable impression of the town....to stimulate interest in the Borough...to attract businesses, families and visitors to the town. We need to give them plenty of good words to share. " In Foodtown last night I over heard two older gentleman engaged in town talk. One man claimed the Kruse Night calamity is a deliberate diversion. He explained about a larger municipality vexation, the growing organized crime group rooted behind a convenience store on Park Ave selling drugs, prostitution and so on. The other fellow went on to say that at least three guns have been taken off the street by our police too. If the councilman denies this information then please delete this post and ban me. Okay, I'll accept everything you said as fact. But here is what I don't get: Kruize Night is a deliberate diversion? Could you elaborate more? A diversion from the other issues? How? Please connect the dots a little bit more for me as I don't understand the inter-relationship. MODIFICATION TO POST: perhaps we should move this to a separate thread as it is not related to the Bucco/Sweeney Bill or overcrowding. As Novillero rightfully modified and pointed out, lets keep this thread on topic, Bucco/Sweenye legislation as well as the resolution the governing body passed. these other topics are good, but belong elsewhere on the site. |
|
ka19
Junior Member
Posts: 356
|
Post by ka19 on Apr 10, 2008 10:06:57 GMT -5
Marc,
Thank for the reply. We are on the same page.
Quid,
Funny that you linked the Red Bank Green site. I was just browsing that site this morning in an effort to compare Red Bank to FB. Red Bank is a good town to keep an eye on, as the towns have a lot in common.
FWIW, Red Bank has its own illegal immigrant population that rivals our own. Also, Red Bank has a higher crime rate than FB. Red Bank was struggling to change its persona, but was successful in doing so over the past 15 years.
Interestingly, the mayor of Red Bank who helped to drive its revitalization was Ed McKenna, who is a law parter of Kerry Higgins. Kerry, of course, is the Freehold Borough attorney.
|
|
|
|
Post by quidproquo on Apr 10, 2008 10:10:04 GMT -5
Your post is not a denial.
Please remember that if the councilman denies this information then please delete my post and ban me.
Saying the FCP is squarely responsible for dropping the ball on Cruise night is an unbelievable streach.
The Admins motto about Sane and Real is a powerful statment, don't lose site of REAL.
I have to run now.
|
|
|
|
Post by lisas84 on Apr 10, 2008 10:24:53 GMT -5
QuidProQuo -- You will not be deleted nor banned if you simplyl follow the rules and be civil is all.
You are correct in your statement that PR does need substance and I'm optimistic FB is abundant in substance. Good point!
|
|
|
|
Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Apr 10, 2008 13:05:22 GMT -5
QuidProQuo -- You will not be deleted nor banned if you simplyl follow the rules and be civil is all. You are correct in your statement that PR does need substance and I'm optimistic FB is abundant in substance. Good point! simplyl  SHAME ON YOU,... OF ALL PEOPLE!!!  |
|
|
|
Post by quidproquo on Apr 15, 2008 0:31:32 GMT -5
Still no denial, tell me I am a crazy fibber troll, and ban me " After all, that committee was created to communicate a favorable impression of the town....to stimulate interest in the Borough...to attract businesses, families and visitors to the town. We need to give them plenty of good words to share. " In Foodtown last night I over heard two older gentleman engaged in town talk. One man claimed the Kruse Night calamity is a deliberate diversion. He explained about a larger municipality vexation, the growing organized crime group rooted behind a convenience store on Park Ave selling drugs, prostitution and so on. The other fellow went on to say that at least three guns have been taken off the street by our police too. If the councilman denies this information then please delete this post and ban me. |
|
|
|
Post by admin on Apr 15, 2008 5:31:26 GMT -5
Still no denial, tell me I am a crazy fibber troll, and ban me " After all, that committee was created to communicate a favorable impression of the town....to stimulate interest in the Borough...to attract businesses, families and visitors to the town. We need to give them plenty of good words to share. " In Foodtown last night I over heard two older gentleman engaged in town talk. One man claimed the Kruse Night calamity is a deliberate diversion. He explained about a larger municipality vexation, the growing organized crime group rooted behind a convenience store on Park Ave selling drugs, prostitution and so on. The other fellow went on to say that at least three guns have been taken off the street by our police too. If the councilman denies this information then please delete this post and ban me. The bigger question is what does your unfounded accusations have to do with the council supporting Bucco/Sweeney legislation? Novillero asked what specific diversion are you talking about? If you have a good topic of interest, start a thread on it for discussion instead of muddling up this one. |
|
|
|
Post by novillero on Apr 15, 2008 11:23:34 GMT -5
Brian, I agree. I am no supporter of organized crime or prostitution behind convenience stores. It is not an illegitimate discussion, but deserves its own thread - just as this discussion deserves its own thread.
Quidproquo. Please address this elsewhere with some further details so it can be discussed.
|
|
SHAME ON YOU,... OF ALL PEOPLE!!! 