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Post by LS on Sept 7, 2007 14:20:46 GMT -5
Marc, I'm talking about the unnecessary use of force by officers...I’m talking about police brutality (in most cases perpetuated against minorities). I’m not talking about the proper enforcement of the laws.  So...who is it that you prefer to enforce our laws or should we just do away with all laws, because they are too much trouble? not sure your pic matches your discussion. I believe that the 287(g) only applies to people being arrested for a felony (and drunk driving). I am sure that there will be a long list of groups funding lawyers for illegals wrongfully arrested for heinous crimes. So the great majority of illegals in Freehold can rest easy, they will not be deported for merely being here illegally or quality of life violations... |
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Post by LS on Sept 7, 2007 14:22:41 GMT -5
I remember the story and the woman refused to get out of the way, she had to keep butting in. In Mexico, of course, she would have had a lot worse than being handcuffed... |
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Post by Marc LeVine on Sept 7, 2007 14:24:25 GMT -5
Use the word MANY instead of MOST. It makes you sound less all-knowing. I've heard of women that have been manhandled and sexually assaulted by the police. There have been many incidents with drunk drivers and even teens that have been roughed up by rogue cops. ALL of it is wrong...and it must be dealt with by training, supervision and the threat of punishment.
The bottom line is, as you say, the proper enforcement of the laws. I am positive that there is alot more proper law enforcement out there than there are isolated unfortunate incidents.
So, in a world which is not perfect - it's good to have laws, police and a way to punish criminals, including any police officers that break the law. And with these things in place...we move on tand avoid law enforcement paralysis.
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Post by Marc LeVine on Sept 7, 2007 14:30:05 GMT -5
:oOYE...I searched Google Images for a picture of Wolf. Knowing the source can I put the photo back? I don't want anything from those folks!!!!!  Marc |
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Post by Zeus on Sept 7, 2007 14:41:00 GMT -5
NO, the woman was assisting the officer, and she eventually needed to leave to pickup her 6-year old daughter, and the officer forced her to the pavement and arrested her for wanting to leave NOT for refusing to get out of the way as you say.Excerpt: The videotape shows how in a span of 25 minutes, Monica Montoya, 25, of Elizabeth was reduced from a dutiful good Samaritan to a wailing and frightened mother handcuffed in the back of a police car moments after a police officer had forced her to the pavement and arrested her. "I have to pick up my baby!" Montoya cries out from a back seat of a police car after her arrest the morning of June 20 -- an arrest that came, the tape shows, after she spent about 20 minutes helping the police with a traffic accident victim. "My baby! My baby!" "Stop it!" shouts the officer who arrested her, Harold Breuninger. Later, he yells, "Stop talking!" The tape also includes an off-camera discussion of what charges the cops should bring against the woman who, on her way from work to catch a bus to pick up her 6-year-old daughter from the child's first day at a new school, stopped to help another woman struck by a senior citizens' van. A second, so far unidentified policeman, discussing the charges with Breuninger, expresses concern about what happened at East Westfield Avenue and Chestnut Street. "It was my call and now it's totally f-----d up," the officer says. Why he says "my call" is unclear, but the tape opens with his dispatch to the scene and could be a reference to his call to the accident by headquarters. I remember the story and the woman refused to get out of the way, she had to keep butting in. In Mexico, of course, she would have had a lot worse than being handcuffed...
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Sept 7, 2007 14:43:10 GMT -5
Please do not to "feed the trolls". Zeus.. Marc, I'm talking about a hardworking mother, Good Samaritan who is arrested handcuffed (for no reason) after assisting police. blog.nj.com/njv_bob_braun/2007/07/arrested_samaritan_has_police.htmlSo...who is it that you prefer to enforce our laws or should we just do away with all laws, because they are too much trouble?
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Sept 7, 2007 14:46:06 GMT -5
Please do not to "feed the trolls".Zeus NO, the woman was assisting the officer, and she eventually needed to leave to pickup her 6-year old daughter, and the officer forced her to the pavement and arrested her for wanting to leave NOT for refusing to get out of the way as you say.Excerpt: The videotape shows how in a span of 25 minutes, Monica Montoya, 25, of Elizabeth was reduced from a dutiful good Samaritan to a wailing and frightened mother handcuffed in the back of a police car moments after a police officer had forced her to the pavement and arrested her. "I have to pick up my baby!" Montoya cries out from a back seat of a police car after her arrest the morning of June 20 -- an arrest that came, the tape shows, after she spent about 20 minutes helping the police with a traffic accident victim. "My baby! My baby!" "Stop it!" shouts the officer who arrested her, Harold Breuninger. Later, he yells, "Stop talking!" The tape also includes an off-camera discussion of what charges the cops should bring against the woman who, on her way from work to catch a bus to pick up her 6-year-old daughter from the child's first day at a new school, stopped to help another woman struck by a senior citizens' van. A second, so far unidentified policeman, discussing the charges with Breuninger, expresses concern about what happened at East Westfield Avenue and Chestnut Street. "It was my call and now it's totally f-----d up," the officer says. Why he says "my call" is unclear, but the tape opens with his dispatch to the scene and could be a reference to his call to the accident by headquarters. I remember the story and the woman refused to get out of the way, she had to keep butting in. In Mexico, of course, she would have had a lot worse than being handcuffed... [/quote]
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Post by LS on Sept 7, 2007 14:49:32 GMT -5
Zeus, I'm still not too concerned. Her matter has been highly publicized, and will avail herself of the courts. I don't think this, and the other examples, are a reason to not take advantage of 287.
In fact, I think given the history of Freehold Borough an dthe latino community, the police will be sensative to the potential hazards of abuse. I also think that the latinos in this community have been well advised of their rights.
Let's see how this develops anyway. I favor it the application and have little sympathy for illegal aliens committing felonies or driving drunk on our roadways.
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Post by Zeus on Sept 7, 2007 15:01:35 GMT -5
Drunk driving isn't a problem of "illegal Latinos" but of course you'd be hard hard-pressed to find any topic on this blog where Latinos are not blamed for every ill affecting Freehold Borough today, so why not blamed them for drunk driving also, hell I think they are responsible for our lack of progress in Iraq too. Disgraceful. www.madd.org/stats/11882Zeus, I'm still not too concerned. Her matter has been highly publicized, and will avail herself of the courts. I don't think this, and the other examples, are a reason to not take advantage of 287. In fact, I think given the history of Freehold Borough an dthe latino community, the police will be sensative to the potential hazards of abuse. I also think that the latinos in this community have been well advised of their rights. Let's see how this develops anyway. I favor it the application and have little sympathy for illegal aliens committing felonies or driving drunk on our roadways. |
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Sept 7, 2007 15:04:41 GMT -5
LS, I am familiar with this story, and what is unfortuante is there are cases, possible like this one, when inocent people bring problems onto themselves. If I remember correclty, the office gave her explicit instructions, she failed to comply. In order to maintain control of the events, the office acted as police protocol derives. Simple rule is, you listen and comply with the person wearing the shield. If you feel that you are being abused or misunderstood keep a cool head, and do not antagonize the officer. Kinda simple and it works! It's called RESPECT, and police expect that you keep this in mind, while they are doing their job. Don't freak the office out, do not challenge the offices, stay calm and polite. Again, if you are being abused or misunderstood get a lawyer AFTER you are convened from the situation. Zeus, I'm still not too concerned. Her matter has been highly publicized, and will avail herself of the courts. I don't think this, and the other examples, are a reason to not take advantage of 287. In fact, I think given the history of Freehold Borough an dthe latino community, the police will be sensative to the potential hazards of abuse. I also think that the latinos in this community have been well advised of their rights. Let's see how this develops anyway. I favor it the application and have little sympathy for illegal aliens committing felonies or driving drunk on our roadways. |
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Sept 7, 2007 15:07:08 GMT -5
Please do not to "feed the trolls".Zeus .......... Drunk driving isn't a problem of "illegal Latinos" but of course you'd be hard hard-pressed to find any topic on this blog where Latinos are not blamed for every ill affecting Freehold Borough today, so why not blamed them for drunk driving also, hell I think they are responsible for our lack of progress in Iraq too. Disgraceful. www.madd.org/stats/11882Zeus, I'm still not too concerned. Her matter has been highly publicized, and will avail herself of the courts. I don't think this, and the other examples, are a reason to not take advantage of 287. In fact, I think given the history of Freehold Borough an dthe latino community, the police will be sensative to the potential hazards of abuse. I also think that the latinos in this community have been well advised of their rights. Let's see how this develops anyway. I favor it the application and have little sympathy for illegal aliens committing felonies or driving drunk on our roadways.
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Post by LS on Sept 7, 2007 15:12:19 GMT -5
Zeus,
You have a serious problem. No one is blaming illegal latinos for all drunk driving. The NJ State Legislature has chosen to make drunk driving a very serious offense, and it is not viewed as a mere traffic ticket.
Hence, get caught violating this law (which is taken very seriously by this state), pay the consequences with deportation.
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Post by Zeus on Sept 7, 2007 15:29:24 GMT -5
I do, I do...(have a serious problem) but as long as I take my medication I’m harmless.... at least that’s what my doctor tell me… Look you want the Boro to implement 287g and your argument is that you don't sympathize or want illegal drunk drivers on the roads. (Neither do I) as a matter of fact I don't want any drunk drivers on our roads, no matter where they happened to have arrived into this world; but the reality is much different, and people do drive under the influence all of the time. Many of the undocumented people don't drive or even own a car so your argument here is not very convincing, so trying to use this statement, as an excuse to implement 287g, is a non sequitur. Zeus, You have a serious problem. No one is blaming illegal latinos for all drunk driving. The NJ State Legislature has chosen to make drunk driving a very serious offense, and it is not viewed as a mere traffic ticket. Hence, get caught violating this law (which is taken very seriously by this state), pay the consequences with deportation. |
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Post by LS on Sept 7, 2007 15:33:13 GMT -5
I do, I do...(have a serious problem) but as long as I take my medication I’m harmless.... at least that’s what my doctor tell me… Look you want the Boro to implement 287g and your argument is that you don't sympathize or want illegal drunk drivers on the roads. (Neither do I) as a matter of fact I don't want any drunk drivers on our roads, no matter where they happened to have arrived into this world; but the reality is much different, and people do drive under the influence all of the time. Many of the undocumented people don't drive or even own a car so your argument here is not very convincing, so trying to use this statement, as an excuse to implement 287g, is a non sequitur. Zeus, You have a serious problem. No one is blaming illegal latinos for all drunk driving. The NJ State Legislature has chosen to make drunk driving a very serious offense, and it is not viewed as a mere traffic ticket. Hence, get caught violating this law (which is taken very seriously by this state), pay the consequences with deportation. just thinning the herd. All people here illegally should all be deported. At least this gets rid of some offenders... |
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Sept 7, 2007 15:34:23 GMT -5
Zeus, You have a serious problem. ,,,,,,,, [/b] |
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Post by Marc LeVine on Sept 7, 2007 15:35:16 GMT -5
Bottom-line is that we don't want hardened criminals of any kind in our community. Whether the penalty is jail time, fines/community service or deportation it should only matter that the penalty fits the crime. Illegal immigrants with previous criminal records deserve deportation. They don't belong on our streets and the taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for their incarceration.
In the past few days we've seen some very violent attacks against Latinos in town - including one at Parker Condos. A similar incident took place on Broad Street, last weekend. If any of the muggers turn out to be illegal immigrants with previous records, the entire town benefits if they are taken off the streets and possibly deported. I'm sure the victims will agree.
We have enough homegrown criminals in th US and don't need anyone elses.
Marc
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Sept 7, 2007 15:37:08 GMT -5
Please do not to "feed the trolls". I do, I do...(have a serious problem) but as long as I take my medication I’m harmless.... at least that’s what my doctor tell me… Look you want the Boro to implement 287g and your argument is that you don't sympathize or want illegal drunk drivers on the roads. (Neither do I) as a matter of fact I don't want any drunk drivers on our roads, no matter where they happened to have arrived into this world; but the reality is much different, and people do drive under the influence all of the time. Many of the undocumented people don't drive or even own a car so your argument here is not very convincing, so trying to use this statement, as an excuse to implement 287g, is a non sequitur. Zeus, You have a serious problem. No one is blaming illegal latinos for all drunk driving. The NJ State Legislature has chosen to make drunk driving a very serious offense, and it is not viewed as a mere traffic ticket. Hence, get caught violating this law (which is taken very seriously by this state), pay the consequences with deportation.
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Sept 7, 2007 15:44:07 GMT -5
any of the muggers turn out to be illegal immigrants with previous records, the entire town benefits if they are taken off the streets and possibly deported
With false documentation, gonna be hard to look for previous records, and I doubt our PD had the capacity to run Fingerprint check though INTERPOL, or an FBI National Crime Lab, Prior to the required 24 hour release. And ....these folks all skip out on Bail release anyway.
But we at least, need to start somewhere!
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Post by Zeus on Sept 7, 2007 15:49:56 GMT -5
Fiber, are you making fun of my disability? ;D Zeus, You have a serious problem. ,,,,,,,, [/b][/quote] |
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Post by richardkelsey on Sept 7, 2007 16:37:08 GMT -5
Oh...and Rich...Sorry, but I just don't see the family resemblance:   call me Iron Rich Kelsey. LOL |
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Post by richardkelsey on Oct 1, 2007 16:06:37 GMT -5
Again, forgive me Esteemed Esquire -- but, to reiterate, I do not possess the factual knowledge of the past, however, I am a keenly discerning of human nature. I seem to sense that you have major sour grapes with this mayor somehow. Such vitriol from a Virginian! A phrase stands out to me that supports my discernment: "the 25-ton-nuclear bomb I am holding." I respect your keen intelligence and professional status, without a doubt. But that phrase I used above sounds more than vaguely threatening. Anything with a threatening tone is typically derived from a feeling of directed and purposeful anger, which is usually caused by a slight, a rejection, sense of lost entitlement, personal or professional betrayal. Just my pop psych 101. Disagreement on issues and handling of issues is one thing, and to me, is actually healthy in the sense that it fosters innovative solutions. But i sense much more. Forgive me if I am way off base. Again, just discernment from reading. Cheers. Remember this thread? Seems that 25 ton nuclear bomb has not yet exploded -- but it is clearly leaking radiation. So here is a simple question. Has the Mayor knowingly appointed an illegal alien to the Human relations Commission? Simple Question 2: Did Council members approve that appointment knowing the individual was an illegal alien? (if he is?) I was chided pretty harshly on this thread for showing frustration over what I perceived as actions taken by this mayor and council inconsistent with harsh rhetoric. The voters of Freehold have a right to know -- has the borough appointed an illegal alien to a committee? If we can't even answer that -- that alone is a problem. IMHO |
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Post by admin on Oct 1, 2007 16:45:18 GMT -5
Rich,
Forgive Calliope for the chiding she gave you. She is a good hearted person and at times I do not think she understands the gravity of the illegal invasion.
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Post by novillero on Oct 1, 2007 18:36:49 GMT -5
The voters of Freehold have a right to know -- has the borough appointed an illegal alien to a committee? If we can't even answer that -- that alone is a problem. IMHO Under whose recommendation? Just FR's or was another person's hand involved? Are these committee positions at the mayor's sole discretion or upon the advice and consent of the council? Where did the council members stand on this decision? If so, which may be up for re-election? Why can't we get an answer? It has been well published that these pages are read by the council. As the saying goes, sometimes silence speaks louder than words |
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Post by novillero on Oct 2, 2007 17:13:35 GMT -5
bump
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Post by Libyan Sibyl on Oct 3, 2007 6:55:21 GMT -5
Yes, I would like an answer to the questions too.
Is Juan Reyes illegally here? Is Juan Reyes a member of Casa Freehold? Is Juan Reyes a resident of Howell?
Let's not hide this thread.
So, to put it as someone wisely said,
[glow=red,2,300]bump[/glow]
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Post by admin on Oct 3, 2007 17:03:15 GMT -5
Yes, I would like an answer to the questions too. Is Juan Reyes illegally here? Is Juan Reyes a member of Casa Freehold? Is Juan Reyes a resident of Howell? Let's not hide this thread. So, to put it as someone wisely said, [glow=red,2,300] bump[/glow] I hope you are not holding your breath, we will not be getting any answers. To Marc, I am not seeking any answers from you and do not want you in the line of fire on this one. Just because you have the courage and insight to participate on this site does not mean you have to answer for everything. Inevitably, if you answer, you will become the target of the ire our participants have and that is not fair to you when you are but one voice on the seven member governing body. Brian |
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Post by novillero on Oct 4, 2007 12:13:03 GMT -5
The voters of Freehold have a right to know -- has the borough appointed an illegal alien to a committee? If we can't even answer that -- that alone is a problem. IMHO Under whose recommendation? Just FR's or was another person's hand involved? Are these committee positions at the mayor's sole discretion or upon the advice and consent of the council? Where did the council members stand on this decision? If so, which may be up for re-election? Why can't we get an answer? It has been well published that these pages are read by the council. As the saying goes, sometimes silence speaks louder than words Geo, well this whole topic of Mr Reyes is a realatively new topic. I don't think that this is bringing up something from last year, but something just learned about that happened a month or two ago. I think that the appointment of someone who is allegedly illegal in this country; or allegedly a member of Casa Freehold (or some such similar organization); or even the appointment of someone from out of town - these are legitimate topics. As R. Kelsey, said above, The voters of Freehold have a right to know -- has the borough appointed an illegal alien to a committee?
If we can't even answer that -- that alone is a problem. IMHO Even more than that, the answers to the questions are also rather simple. perhaps nothing more would have come of it. But I think the silence is quite peculiar. More peculiar is the victim mentality going on here. Don't the consituents have a right to know??? |
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Post by richardkelsey on Oct 4, 2007 13:27:33 GMT -5
Thank you for that advice, Brian. In fact, I will take it. I'm not sure I like the tone or direction the site is currently taking. Not your fault. Call it a "seasonal disorder." We saw this last year, too. Fiber is running...his supporters are here...the gallows have been placed and a lynch mob and posse have ridden into town. Thus, there is a definate "mob" mentality here - no longer just an exchange of ideas and information. You are right. I am but one voice on council and I take that charge very seriously. I know what I have to do and I do it to the best of my ability. So...I'm going to go back and do "my job" and take a break from my participation on this site. I will do that until things calm down, again, and the few people who actually post here return to their senses and can - once again - discuss issues in a more rational and reasonable manner. You can't solve real problems when you are too busy headhunting. If you wish to criticize me for opting out, for awhile, that is your right. If you don't know me and my views pretty well by now, this is not the time of year for me to further open my soul for scrutiny. Of course, I am still always available to any and all of you in person, over the telephone or by email. See you all in November, Marc The Machine at work! LOL They won't let you post any more until the election is over, right? |
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Post by stffgpr2003 on Oct 4, 2007 14:19:29 GMT -5
Common, Rich. You know me better than that. I call my own shots. Always have. Always will.  |
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Post by admin on Oct 4, 2007 18:50:34 GMT -5
Thank you for that advice, Brian. In fact, I will take it. I'm not sure I like the tone or direction the site is currently taking. Not your fault. Call it a "seasonal disorder." We saw this last year, too. Fiber is running...his supporters are here...the gallows have been placed and a lynch mob and posse have ridden into town. Thus, there is a definate "mob" mentality here - no longer just an exchange of ideas and information. You are right. I am but one voice on council and I take that charge very seriously. I know what I have to do and I do it to the best of my ability. So...I'm going to go back and do "my job" and take a break from my participation on this site. I will do that until things calm down, again, and the few people who actually post here return to their senses and can - once again - discuss issues in a more rational and reasonable manner. You can't solve real problems when you are too busy headhunting. If you wish to criticize me for opting out, for awhile, that is your right. If you don't know me and my views pretty well by now, this is not the time of year for me to further open my soul for scrutiny. Of course, I am still always available to any and all of you in person, over the telephone or by email. See you all in November, Marc I resent the reference to a lynch mob mentality. That is a degrading statement to make toward people with legitimate views. Would you rather the posse ride out of town? Every time one leaves we wind up with another rental property. Is that the goal of the council? I hardly think so. At times many of us have circled the wagons to help you, even when we disagree with you. To call people a lynch mob now is tasteless. We are still in one town, right? We are still in this together, right? It is not wise to allow partisanship to divide us. Either way, it is sad that you, Calliope, and MRPR have all opted to not write with us here. All three of you have provided balance and differing view points than some of the other participants. All three of you are friends, as well as Fiber. It is a shame that the left leaning participants are fleeing the site instead of continuing the dialog. We may have that GOP site I keep hearing about yet. As far as the Juan Reyes issue, that is not an election gimmick of something that popped up due to the election. It is more a matter of timing than anything. LS did some research and came up with some very good questions. That had nothing to do with seasonal disorder. As far as Fiber, haven't you noticed that for quite some time he has been quiet on this site? I know that he is NOT using this site for his election bid. Of course the people here are going to be comfortable with supporting him. He has been with us and shared his ideas for quite some time, well before he ran. The other candidates can not say that. They have CHOSEN to remain silent and not take advantage of this forum which can allow them to reach out to people- and Yes, we do have a few hundred readers. See you in November, Marc. We will miss having you here. |
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