bergsteiger
Full Member
War is simple, direct, and ruthless
Posts: 1,189
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Post by bergsteiger on Aug 6, 2007 10:45:52 GMT -5
I’m back from my vacation in America. I’ve been away for little over a week and feeling very tired and in need of a rest. I’ve hiked 40+ miles with over 10,000 feet of elevation gain.  Brian, I agree with your decision to ban the use of multiple screen names. I find that to be annoying. I did however enjoy some of the posts from that person and wish he/she would register with one screen name so we could read more. Some of those posts were hilarious and offensive. I also like the inconvenient truth aspect of them. FR, What’s your problem? Not the sexual orientation one. ;D The problem you have with not registering?  |
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Aug 6, 2007 11:27:57 GMT -5
I’m back from my vacation in America. I’ve been away for little over a week and feeling very tired and in need of a rest. I’ve hiked 40+ miles with over 10,000 feet of elevation gain. Brian, I agree with your decision to ban the use of multiple screen names. I find that to be annoying. I did however enjoy some of the posts from that person and wish he/she would register with one screen name so we could read more. Some of those posts were hilarious and offensive. I also like the inconvenient truth aspect of them. FR, What’s your problem? Not the sexual orientation one. ;D The problem you have with not registering? I think his problem is with Manalpan and Marlboro Attitudes? ;D, but thats part of his charm! |
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Post by admin on Aug 6, 2007 14:09:15 GMT -5
I always dreaded the day I used the ban feature. On a forum like this one it is always just a matter of time.
As it is, many posts have been deleted over recent months due to inappropriate content or going way too far off topic. I always ask people to carry themselves in a manner in which they would be comfortable allowing their kids to read the site.
And of course, no matter how much we may complain and take issue with things that are going on, this is a public reflection of our town.
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Post by Marc LeVine on Aug 6, 2007 14:56:58 GMT -5
When I moderated this board, I used that (banning) feature quite often, as you might remember, especially with Immigrate Advocate, Concerned Citizen, etc. Remember that they challenged our ability to shut them down and threatened to swamp us with IP's. We won. They lost. The board was better for it in the long run - at least, for awhile. They were nothing more than baiters and flamers. That's all - no substance, just mischief and hostility. Not needed here. Every once in a while the board gets lax and posters begin to challenge the authority. It seems to come and go in cycles. And, people appreciate and respect the moderator for calming things down, from time to time, because it just makes for a better experience. And, you are right - it reflects on our town. In the long run, if handled right, the board will gain a reputation for being a positive force for good in Freehold Borough. But, ONLY if order is maintained. Not censure - just reasonable oversight. Just think about why the Wall Street Journal was being kept away from Rupert Murdoch. Because, there were fears his editorial policies would turn it into tabloid journalism. He has it now - let's see what happens. That, too, is about established credibility. Same here...if everyone sticks to the issues and is civil - you have yourself a credible board. However, if it is used as a bully pulpit or a political machine by others --- the future looks bleak. Kind of what you, personally, believe in - hate the idea, but love the author.  Marc |
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Post by admin on Aug 6, 2007 15:32:51 GMT -5
Marc.
How could you forget our old pal El Lobo? As soon as I see that name we will have a permanent ban! I do believe that Concerned Citizen is still among us and posting.
As far as the site being a positive thing, I would say it is over all. We do have good people participating.
What I would like to see is more people who are active in town participating. You know mayor, council, committee members, candidates for office, etc. I have made offers time and time again to accommodate those types of people. What are they so afraid of? Anonymous people posting? For the record, I even invited members of the LLA to participate here.
I hear that some are turned off by the perception of negativity. That is silly. All of those who disagree, or find inaccuracies here, they have the power to change it. Why so silent? Maybe things are not so inaccurate?
This site will do nothing but grow. it is a tool for people to use. To communicate outside of meetings. To make each other a bit more accessible.
There is no excuse to not take advantage.
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Post by Marc LeVine on Aug 7, 2007 9:29:58 GMT -5
Oh yes - El Lobo! The experience was so severe that I must have blocked him from my mind. LOL!!!
Getting other leaders ever to participate on this board will be difficult, for several reasons. If they come on, they must be themselves and give away all fairness to others, who are allowed to be who they are not and personally attack them. Case in point - see Phyllis DeFonzo's frustration after only a single response from Casual Reader. She's posting from her heart and mind and he acts as if visiting this board is akin to visiting the zoo and teasing the animals. And I ask you - who is Casual? We know everything about Phyllis and her civically oriented family.
I also understand that the school board attorney has advised their board members to stay away from all blogs, like this one. Many attorneys in other towns have done the same, I am told. This board is also being closely monitored by state and county law enforcement agencies. Oh yes. Of that I am sure. What we write can pose problems on many levels. Case in point - my own unfortunate situation last winter.
How did we get to where we are? Well, frankly, a good idea has gone awry. Not just on the Freehold Voice, but in many other places. Remember the recent editorials about the "disgusting" Manalapan Board? Also, see the crap on NJ.com and other local boards? Heck, I have my own trouble trying to seriously converse on some of the sports oriented message boards, including one set up for Syracuse University Football. Half the stuff posted on that one is garbage talk. Once in awhile people actually talk about the Syracuse Football program, when most other posters aren't bashing each other or talking trash about other coaches, players, teams - some negative personal stuff, too.
Want a model discussion group? Unfortunately, it's the one I belong to related to my Esophageal Cancer. There have been a few arguments on this one, from time to time. There was one involving EC survivors trying to convince terminal patients to "enjoy the time they have left." That one didn't go over to well and before long the survivors realized that they couldn't walk in another's shoes. Apologies were made and the board moved forward. Human nature, I guess. 95% of the time the posters are on topic and respective of others.
Freehold Borough is a very small town. A tiny town, in fact. People have sensitive feelings here - tied to living in a small, tight community. You think our elected officials want to be called some of the things they have been called on this board? President Bush may not care... Governor Corzine might not care.... Karcher or Beck might not even care. They don't live here. But when you get down to the people, who serve here and actually reside among us in OUR town, it's a completely different story. I know - I've talked to some others, who feel very hurt. This Council is not the mafia - just people like you and me. We all do our best. We can take constructive criticism - but not abject ridicule.
The Council and Board of Education can deal with your "disagreement" on a variety of topics. But, they shouldn't have to be made to feel like subhumans in their VOLUNTEER roles - especially from a few jerks, who see to enjoy taking pot shots at them, while hiding behind pseudo-names. This board should be dedicated to frank and intelligent discussion - not to creating a cyber-world that allows anyone to feel that they can say anything they want, because no one knows, who they really are.
I created this board and it is NOT what I wanted. I'm not ashamed to say this - because my purpose was noble from the start. That original purpose has been distorted, by some - not by all.
A local message board needs to consider the feelings of others WHO LIVE HERE AMONG THOSE WHO POST.
Isn't it better for someone to post, "Mr. Mayor, I do not think you are involved enough in improving our downtown," than to say "you, as "Mayor for Life," and the other slackers up on Council don't have a clue about what this town needs? I'm sorry, but I think the first statement deserves a response more than the second statement.
So, why am I the only council member who posts on this board - even after I had my own humiliating lesson? Because, I have hope that the board can be rescued by some, who will make much better use of it.
To walk away is to disavow the value of communications, in general. To walk away is to let the cynics, the baiter's and the flamers win, by shutting down the voices of many more responsible people that aren't posting yet. No, we ALL must be responsible for what we say and HOW we say it. I learned from my own mistake...now the rest of you need to learn from yours.
You want elected officials to appear here, then help create an environment that encourages them to participate. Take away the threat of insults and return to intelligent and focused discussion. The future of the board is in the hands of the moderators and especially, the posters. The one rule that applies is easy enough to follow - if it doesn't come off as civil - DON'T POST IT.
This is my last diatribe on this topic. You can agree with all or none of this and still be within your rights as open communicators. I will not cry or have a bad day over your remarks, because my convictions run deep and I truly believe this board - from how I intended it to be - has gone awry. The proof of this is not in who posts here - but who doesn't.
Marc
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Post by Casual Reader on Aug 7, 2007 10:13:35 GMT -5
Dudes and Dudettes: I completely agree with Council Dude Levine -- He and I have worked together for years to clean up this board -- make it fun and entertaining and informative. How can the mayor and the other respected public officials post here with all the negative energy expended? I share a little bit of my life and now my girlfriend (soon to be ex??  ) and her alleged sexual preferences are a subject of ridicule. Everyone is trying to hurt each other -- so how can Mayor Mike take a chance and participate? You have taken this board and twisted and tortured it -- so it is no longer a forum for free expression. If you don't agree with someone question their sexuality or even worse call them a "Mexican." Also, there is such an undercurrent of anti-Mexican feeling here -- you don't see it because you feel it so strongly. We have become the enemy of reasonable discourse. I support Council dude Levine completely here. In the past he has been a bit off base with his tasteless remarks, but he is in the right on this issue. Casually Positive  |
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Post by admin on Aug 7, 2007 11:21:31 GMT -5
Oh yes - El Lobo! The experience was so severe that I must have blocked him from my mind. LOL!!! Getting other leaders ever to participate on this board will be difficult, for several reasons. If they come on, they must be themselves and give away all fairness to others, who are allowed to be who they are not and personally attack them. Case in point - see Phyllis DeFonzo's frustration after only a single response from Casual Reader. She's posting from her heart and mind and he acts as if visiting this board is akin to visiting the zoo and teasing the animals. And I ask you - who is Casual? We know everything about Phyllis and her civically oriented family. I also understand that the school board attorney has advised their board members to stay away from all blogs, like this one. Many attorneys in other towns have done the same, I am told. This board is also being closely monitored by state and county law enforcement agencies. Oh yes. Of that I am sure. What we write can pose problems on many levels. Case in point - my own unfortunate situation last winter. How did we get to where we are? Well, frankly, a good idea has gone awry. Not just on the Freehold Voice, but in many other places. Remember the recent editorials about the "disgusting" Manalapan Board? Also, see the crap on NJ.com and other local boards? Heck, I have my own trouble trying to seriously converse on some of the sports oriented message boards, including one set up for Syracuse University Football. Half the stuff posted on that one is garbage talk. Once in awhile people actually talk about the Syracuse Football program, when most other posters aren't bashing each other or talking trash about other coaches, players, teams - some negative personal stuff, too. Want a model discussion group? Unfortunately, it's the one I belong to related to my Esophageal Cancer. There have been a few arguments on this one, from time to time. There was one involving EC survivors trying to convince terminal patients to "enjoy the time they have left." That one didn't go over to well and before long the survivors realized that they couldn't walk in another's shoes. Apologies were made and the board moved forward. Human nature, I guess. 95% of the time the posters are on topic and respective of others. Freehold Borough is a very small town. A tiny town, in fact. People have sensitive feelings here - tied to living in a small, tight community. You think our elected officials want to be called some of the things they have been called on this board? President Bush may not care... Governor Corzine might not care.... Karcher or Beck might not even care. They don't live here. But when you get down to the people, who serve here and actually reside among us in OUR town, it's a completely different story. I know - I've talked to some others, who feel very hurt. This Council is not the mafia - just people like you and me. We all do our best. We can take constructive criticism - but not abject ridicule. The Council and Board of Education can deal with your "disagreement" on a variety of topics. But, they shouldn't have to be made to feel like subhumans in their VOLUNTEER roles - especially from a few jerks, who see to enjoy taking pot shots at them, while hiding behind pseudo-names. This board should be dedicated to frank and intelligent discussion - not to creating a cyber-world that allows anyone to feel that they can say anything they want, because no one knows, who they really are. I created this board and it is NOT what I wanted. I'm not ashamed to say this - because my purpose was noble from the start. That original purpose has been distorted, by some - not by all. A local message board needs to consider the feelings of others WHO LIVE HERE AMONG THOSE WHO POST. Isn't it better for someone to post, "Mr. Mayor, I do not think you are involved enough in improving our downtown," than to say "you, as "Mayor for Life," and the other slackers up on Council don't have a clue about what this town needs? I'm sorry, but I think the first statement deserves a response more than the second statement. So, why am I the only council member who posts on this board - even after I had my own humiliating lesson? Because, I have hope that the board can be rescued by some, who will make much better use of it. To walk away is to disavow the value of communications, in general. To walk away is to let the cynics, the baiter's and the flamers win, by shutting down the voices of many more responsible people that aren't posting yet. No, we ALL must be responsible for what we say and HOW we say it. I learned from my own mistake...now the rest of you need to learn from yours. You want elected officials to appear here, then help create an environment that encourages them to participate. Take away the threat of insults and return to intelligent and focused discussion. The future of the board is in the hands of the moderators and especially, the posters. The one rule that applies is easy enough to follow - if it doesn't come off as civil - DON'T POST IT. This is my last diatribe on this topic. You can agree with all or none of this and still be within your rights as open communicators. I will not cry or have a bad day over your remarks, because my convictions run deep and I truly believe this board - from how I intended it to be - has gone awry. The proof of this is not in who posts here - but who doesn't. Marc Marc, I suppose this board will march forward without other elected leaders. That is unfortunate. Let us look at this fairly. Short of censorship there is not much I can do to entice other people to the site. I have made offers to accommodate people. There are standards which are largely adhered to. ( Though not always perfect) If elected leaders are to listen to their lawyers, then we will never see more of them anyway. What is the purpose of this forum? The first and foremost target group is the citizenry. This is for them to learn and have an outlet. I know what you mean by other web sites being nasty. We are nowhere near that. I still stand by the assertion that this board is informative and insightful. We may highlight the ugly parts of our town at times but if we were to disallow those topics the problems would still exist. No problem solved with censorship. Having elected leaders on board is a bonus when they choose to do so. You and Andrew have both proven that value without the special accommodations I would offer any elected leader. I will again state, that elected leaders, or any other person for that matter, should not be afraid or offended by the nameless and faceless participants. Both you and Andrew have been great at reaching out to people here. As far as the crappy criticism, take it on the chin! It comes with the territory when a person sits in a leadership position. And yes, I do know what it is like. I have sat in rooms full of people looking at me for answers. Experience has taught me that the people we try to help most will often take the biggest swipes at us, especially when they do not get the answers they expect or want. It does sting! But you man up and do the right thing. At the end of the day, the participants on this site are not the ones who have tried, or want, to hurt anyone in this town, including elected leaders. Now, let us look at administrator options. 1. Aggressive Censorship. Not going to happen. People need to feel that they can come here and add something of value. If they are cut up for the wrong reasons, they will not come back. Censorship or cutting people up every step of the way defeats the open forum approach. Phyllis is an example. I responded to her both on and off of the site in order to help her deal with the sometime downfalls that can be found here. In the past I have also deleted posts that were way out of line. Several participants have been on the receiving end of that including current ones. 2. Bans. That has begun. Casual Reader will be the recipient of a ban if he continues with his past practices. 3. Do not allow unregistered guests to participate. I keep this option close to being done. I do hesitate to do so because we would also lose some of our best participants like Freehold Resident, LS, Novelliro, Zeus, Unwelcome guest, Cheryl, TNT, and a few others. Most of them have been good and I do wish they would all sign on as registered users. With that said, I may yet use this option. I hate to lose the good ones! 4. Special accommodations for special guests such as elected leaders and committee members. I can open boards for limited participation. Offer still stands. I have made this offer time and time again. There is little else I can do. What can participants do? Go back and read the guidlines for starters. Beyond that, participate in a good way. It serves no purpose when the good people are quiet. Calliope, Leelye, Geo, Compe, Phyllis and so many others are examples of people who need to speak up. |
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Post by novillero on Aug 7, 2007 11:26:14 GMT -5
Everyone is trying to hurt each other yes, including some dude that started off by calling everyone here a "knucklehead." |
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Post by Marc LeVine on Aug 7, 2007 11:33:27 GMT -5
Thank you Casual. In fact, YOU are a good one to start with. Come away from the alternate world you created for yourself and get real, too. Drop the "dude" and become the man or woman you really are. You are not the "observer omniscient" you wish to project. You are just another individual with your own set of REAL issues. Just another participant on this board. Just another character, here.
Obviously, you are pro immigrant. Fine. We need that here. And, realize that your Pro illegal immigration stance encourages rebuttal from the other side - anywhere you go. Sorry, that comes with the territory.
Civil debate becomes the order of the day. By virtue of the "illegal" reference, you can not be considered holier than thou, either. As I see your position, intelligent discussion might lead to a draw with others, at very best. Be willing to accept this reality as those on the "con side" also need to. The larger issue requires federal, lawful closure not necessarily the popular "submission" or "surrender" you seem to imply in some of your posts. Neither side needs to roll over, just meet close to the middle on a legal and social plains.
Casual, I can only think of a single "tasteless" remark I have made on this site - a human error in judgment. However, I've seen several from you, over the past year, including your constant mocking of Freehold Borough's destiny. What you think to portray as balanced levels of diversity actually comes across more as the flaunted threat of total illegal immigrant (in this case Latino) domination of this town.
This is inflammatory and divisive, because it overwhelms the current political will driven by the majority of legal residents, who want this town to share in the growth and prosperity of Western Monmouth County without becoming it's shanty town and laborer's quarters. Freehold Borough should not need to become known, primarily, as a Latino immigrant town to satisfy your pro immigrant views, but there is certainly nothing wrong with being a town with Latino immigrants (along with other enthnicites) - like Red Bank. It seems to be working well, there, better than in some of the less desirable North Jersey towns that have lost their universal appeal to blight and lack of
mass attractions.
Marc
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Aug 7, 2007 12:44:24 GMT -5
Perhaps the Boro would care to have a BORO sponsored Blog associated with the Boro's web site, a Blog or BB that they CAN sensor, paint Rosie colored images of Their Freehold.
As far as the "This board is also being closely monitored by state and county law enforcement agencies"...And? Good for them! Nothing better to do with tax payer money and time! Maybe because an aggressive outside advocacy group twisted a few POSTS made by a councilmen, or due to a perverse accusation that the “People-Voice” is a "Hate Group" promoting Racism, waged by a zealot lobby organization who maintains their own ProBoards BB that disallows any public viewing, or general participation by "Non-Paying Member".
Perhaps a Swarming incident needs to be more discreetly addressed, or is viewed as inappropriate and that posters are incapable of maintaining an "Intelligent Dialog" on these darker Boro issues on site.
These are threads, discussion of current events happening on our home town, where many of us have chosen to invest in homes and raising families, some of us talk with neighbors across a the fence we share, other come here for the same effect.
These are the topics of the day. There are people who feel more comfortable with a “post” here, then speaking up at a school Board meeting, or a Council Meeting.
There are folks who are not inclined to go to a school Board meeting, or a Council Meeting. If what is posted seem sot be alarming, this board too should serve as a catalyst and motivation, to those people to go get in front of our Governing Bodies, question the validity, and make intelligent decision about the state of affairs we live with.
Again, I have stated, supply the facts with your posts. I do not believe anything I read without the fact. Most, if not all viewers and poster of this site are highly intelligent people and know the BS from the reality.
We know a baiter when we read one, and we can chose to ignore, rather than call more attention which exactly what is happening. All of the talk of Banning, Negativity etc call more attention than simply ignoring it!
PS., any one not know who I am at this point? I love my handle; people stop me in the street and say "Hi Fiber", or say "FIGFY" with a warm embrace.
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Post by Marc LeVine on Aug 7, 2007 13:39:00 GMT -5
Thank you Fiber! My point exactly!! No one could have said it any better than you, especially the part after the last comma.
This is the exactly the kind of stuff that keeps some of the people we want here away and it unfairly demonizes the council.
Or, should we just ignore your words - as you say in your last post - "rather than call more attention (to them), which exactly what is happening. All of the talk of Banning, Negativity etc call more attention than simply ignoring it!"
Marc
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Aug 7, 2007 14:26:21 GMT -5
Thank you Fiber! My point exactly!! No one could have said it any better than you, especially the part after the last comma. This is the exactly the kind of stuff that keeps some of the people we want here away and it unfairly demonizes the council. Or, should we just ignore your words - as you say in your last post - "rather than call more attention (to them), which exactly what is happening. All of the talk of Banning, Negativity etc call more attention than simply ignoring it!" Marc Touche,...." Demonize", Villanize, verbal Prise de fer!  |
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adefonzo
Junior Member
If I can see further than some, it's because I have stood on the shoulders of giants
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Post by adefonzo on Aug 7, 2007 14:34:12 GMT -5
For some reason...I feel compelled to put in my two cents on this thread... First of all, I hope the administrators of the site will see fit to let me keep my 2 identities on here, as I am trying to help people realize that there is a difference between what I say as an elected official, and what I say as simply a resident of Freehold Boro...state of New Jersey...United States of America. Or perhaps, it's just that, being a Gemini, I have dual personalities Anyway...while I agree with the concept of intelligent conversation over anonymous mud-slinging, as an "elected official" who has only been in his position for a year and several months, I have already come to appreciate and understand that people in our town are, for lack of a better term, pi$$ed off at how things have been developing for a number of years now. There are people who have been shouting at the top of their lungs for years about the different issues that continue to affect our small town, only to be ignored or shunned away by elected officials (some who are still in their positions) and others who "had the power to do something". So now, to ask some of them to "be reasonable", "sit down and discuss the issue peacefully and calmly" is understandably beyond their ability or desire...that's just human nature. Sometimes you have to let them vent, let them get it off their chest, and then when they've done that, you can work with them towards achieving a common goal. Granted, there are those that show up on here just to continuously bash, but there are others who are simply frustrated at years of no actions being taken...and in my opinion, many of them have earned the right to throw stones at those who they feel have not done their jobs as elected officials. Let's not forget also the many sorted tales of people who have spoken out against some elected officials, only to have code enforcers, or other authority figures knocking on their doors as some twisted form of retaliation. Sure, some of the stories undoubtedly have been blown out of proportion...but some have not. So when the people see these types of retaliations, they feel safe in bashing anonimously...and I can't necessarily blame them either. But here's the flip side... If the people on this site want to quote the Constitution and "freedom of speech" you have to realize that it pertains to everyone...even elected leaders. This is where I have gotten myself into trouble on occasion, and I am certain it will happen again. This is why I have 2 ids on this site, though it sometimes bothers me a great deal that I should have to do so. Basically, I have as much right to talk about anything I want as anyone else on here, or anywhere else out there. If I want to come on here and spew a bunch of nonsense about people who eat turkey on Thanksgiving, I have a right to do that as a citizen of the United States. The people, like those who went after Marc for his comments on this site, who yell and scream about elected leaders and what they say seem to forget one simple fact...if what they are saying is so terrible and so hurtful and so racist and so bigoted...VOTE THEM OUT OF OFFICE. Back when Marc had his little skirmish, I told everyone that would listen that those people who were attacking him were more than likely making him a stronger candidate should he decide to run again for Town Council, because all they were doing was drawing a line in the sand and trying to force people to choose sides...not a good idea when the majority of the voting public don't agree with what you are spewing. All too often, elected leaders are afraid to come onto a site like this because they are afraid that something they may say will be either taken out of context or somehow slanted to make them sound like a mean spirited person, or a racist, or some other negative connotation. I don't agree with their thinking, but it's their own choice to make. For myself, I choose to come on here from time to time and speak my mind...if I say something that offends you, you have every right to disagree with me. You can even vote against me if I choose to run for the school board again, you can even get a whole group of people together to vote against me, or call me whatever name you may choose... but you are never going to silence me...so know that now. |
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Post by Casual Reader on Aug 7, 2007 14:53:05 GMT -5
Brian Dude:
Let me see if I understand this -- you are going to ban one of the original and founding fathers of the PEOPLE Board for poking fun at the debates that take place here??
What past practices are you talking about?
You mean the ones where I defend immigrants?
You mean the ones where I tease people who feel the world is coming to an end because another Mexican store opens up on Main Street?
Are you going to ban Bergstool when he makes pejorative remarks about "illegals?" How about FIGGY when he blames immigrants for Global Warming?
This is why people do not take PEOPLE seriously -- You are now threatening to silence a dissident voice...
Gulag ala Brian...
How do you sleep at night?
Casually Oppressed
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Aug 7, 2007 14:55:23 GMT -5
How about FIGGY when he blames immigrants for Global Warming? Casually Oppressed Honestly, ..................I like tropical weather! |
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Post by Marc LeVine on Aug 7, 2007 15:00:16 GMT -5
Andrew has had some good posts today. There's some strong medicine mixed with a little sugar, which is tactful. And, yet there is also some embedded disagreement and thought provoking criticism. Well done - this time around. I hope others follow suit, in this manner.
Andrew - we can use all the IDs we want on this site, but as pubilc officials we ARE culpable, as long as we don't say that what we wrote was not us. You and I may be willing to take this kind of chance from time to time -but, we're no less responsible. The real rule is that we never speak for our governing bodies.
Finally, why do I post today? Well...there is an opening for movement in the right direction on this board. If I can help turn it around, I'd be mighty happy. If not, it may be best to move on and commuicate the "ancient" way - by email, phone or in person. I think if positive change takes hold others may join Andrew and me. At least, they will not have any valid excuse not to.
The other reason I am posting...OK...the company firewall was taken down over the weekend and a different technology will be applied. The one that was being used was too restrictive and not without its technical flaws. There will be a new firewall up by the coming weekend. As for the tracking software? That may still be in place, so I will limit my participation, accordingly.
Marc
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Post by Marc LeVine on Aug 7, 2007 15:06:50 GMT -5
I say give Casual another chance. We ALL know what we need to do to improve this board. Let's see how many swallow that pill versus spit it back in our faces. What do you say? By the way, I only counted one "dude" in his entire post. He actually sounded like a real person and made sense. Let's see if the transformation is complete. If you ban him, we'll never know... Marc |
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Post by admin on Aug 7, 2007 15:15:23 GMT -5
Andrew has had some good posts today. There's some strong medicine mixed with a little sugar, which is tactful. And, yet there is also some embedded disagreement and thought provoking criticism. Well done - this time around. I hope others follow suit, in this manner. Andrew - we can use all the IDs we want on this site, but as public officials we ARE culpable, as long as we don't say that what we wrote was not us. You and I may be willing to take this kind of chance from time to time -but, we're no less responsible. The real rule is that we never speak for our governing bodies. Finally, why do I post today? Well...there is an opening for movement in the right direction on this board. If I can help turn it around, I'd be mighty happy. If not, it may be best to move on and communicate the "ancient" way - by email, phone or in person. I think if positive change takes hold others may join Andrew and me. At least, they will not have any valid excuse not to. The other reason I am posting...OK...the company firewall was taken down over the weekend and a different technology will be applied. The one that was being used was too restrictive and not without its technical flaws. There will be a new firewall up by the coming weekend. As for the tracking software? That may still be in place, so I will limit my participation, accordingly. Marc To feed off of what you have said, Andrew has carried himself well on this site and he gets it. There are ups and downs on a forum like this and he has no problem with navigating them. There is not big bad chance here, Marc. For anybody to look at your little March incident and use THAT as an example of why they should not participate is ridiculous. We all know how phony the whiners are who came down from New York and Newark to put you in your place. Getting back to you and Andrew, the people here will get to know you a little better by being here. We can't say the same for many of your comrades who sit with you on your governing bodies. At the end of meetings many do not take the time to get to know people, Meeting over, let's go home now. Aren't we all friends and neighbor's first? Quit thinking like politicians. We don't need them any where. just be concerned residents. just because you sit on an elected board does not mean that you have no opinions. Just the opposite, you need to get them out there. For the record, I tried to reach out to all three of the candidates for council. Not one has replied. |
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Post by admin on Aug 7, 2007 15:24:09 GMT -5
Brian Dude: Let me see if I understand this -- you are going to ban one of the original and founding fathers of the PEOPLE Board for poking fun at the debates that take place here?? What past practices are you talking about? You mean the ones where I defend immigrants? You mean the ones where I tease people who feel the world is coming to an end because another Mexican store opens up on Main Street? Are you going to ban Bergstool when he makes pejorative remarks about "illegals?" How about FIGGY when he blames immigrants for Global Warming? This is why people do not take PEOPLE seriously -- You are now threatening to silence a dissident voice... Gulag ala Brian... How do you sleep at night? Casually Oppressed Casual, You know better than to think that I would ban anyone for a point of view. I have never done that. Defend illegals all you want! You are entitled. Take some lessons from Zeus. She is respectable and gets her opposing opinions across with respect. ( Although like most of us does have a not so good moment or two) The reason why I have to handle a person like you and Bergstieger differently is purely due to the status each of you have on this site. I can reach out to him and tell him to can it via private messages found in this site. I can not do it for you and I am not going to continue to air grievances with you on every other thread as to your conduct. Bottom line, registered users do get preference. They are more credible even when I delete their posts. If you recall, you came back to the site with another name. Under that name you were merely putting out alternate points of view. You were doing well until you became the Casual baiter and brought every thread you touched off topic. That will end. |
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Post by admin on Aug 7, 2007 15:25:11 GMT -5
How about FIGGY when he blames immigrants for Global Warming? Casually Oppressed Honestly, ..................I like tropical weather! If you like tropical weather, go to mexico, there is nobody left down there. I hear it is quiet. |
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Post by Freehold Resident on Aug 7, 2007 15:39:34 GMT -5
I have seen this type of "in-fighting" on message boards time and time again.
The way it seems to cycle is that "internet darwinism" takes effect and the people causing the problems either get banned or leave and disappear, making room for new people to come.
Those people start off discussing issues, then start fighting over time and the cycle repeats.
That is exactly what will happen on this board and I'm already seeing it happening. The more you fuel it, the faster it will take effect.
You think THIS fighting is bad? You should see what names get thrown around on a Tori Amos message board!!!! She doesn't take s*it and neither do her fans!!
FR
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Post by novillero on Aug 7, 2007 15:42:04 GMT -5
Honestly, ..................I like tropical weather! If you like tropical weather, go to mexico, there is nobody left down there. I hear it is quiet. or go to Sevilla and a flamenco show? |
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Aug 7, 2007 15:43:59 GMT -5
If you like tropical weather, go to mexico, there is nobody left down there. I hear it is quiet. or go to Sevilla and a flamenco show? better still, lets open a Tappas Bar here, with Live Flamenco |
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Post by novillero on Aug 7, 2007 16:03:19 GMT -5
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Post by Casual Reader on Aug 7, 2007 16:05:33 GMT -5
Brian dude:
what you see as "baiting" I call social satire -- I hope you don't edit this out.
I sense the heart and mind of a tyrant beginning to emerge. Perhaps your title should be moderator/despot?
Or how about moderator/book burner?
Or how about moderator/manipulator?
I can see why Mayor Mike doesn't make appearances -- you are threatening to censor debate.
Casually Dissenting
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Post by Freehold Resident on Aug 7, 2007 16:11:50 GMT -5
Casual--
Are you a George W. Bush supporter or supporter of someone else? Who?
Just curious who your ideological beliefs align with?
FR
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Aug 7, 2007 16:27:04 GMT -5
Brian dude: social satire -- Casually Dissenting OMG How semi correct you are for a change, I was think more along the lines of Playful Sarcasms however. What concerns "some" is that this site is confusing to decipher to the nubies among us, and the "Readers" who pass through. Perhaps a simple per message Posters Rating System like a movie rating system can be implemented, rather than banning posters. So, I would ask for a trial period to see how this works out. People Site Posters rating system This post is Rated "S" for Serious Content This post is Rated "C" for Casual Social Satire This Post is Rated "F" for Playful Fiber Sarcasms This Post is Rated "SCS" for Serious Council Spin This Post is Rated "I" for Illegal Alien related Material This Post is Rated "D" for Democratic Propaganda This Post is Rated "R" for Republican Propaganda This Post is Rated "M" for Mysterious "Guest-Guest" This Post is Rated "Z" For Zeus, totally Authoritative and Factual This Post is rated "AR" for Angry Rant Any other suggestions? PLZ |
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Post by novillero on Aug 7, 2007 16:31:45 GMT -5
Brian dude: what you see as "baiting" I call social satire -- I hope you don't edit this out. I sense the heart and mind of a tyrant beginning to emerge. Perhaps your title should be moderator/despot? Or how about moderator/book burner? Or how about moderator/manipulator? I can see why Mayor Mike doesn't make appearances -- you are threatening to censor debate. Casually Dissenting ban him for hyperbole and only let him back until he admits he never went to Seville. |
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bergsteiger
Full Member
War is simple, direct, and ruthless
Posts: 1,189
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Post by bergsteiger on Aug 8, 2007 8:01:05 GMT -5
I have to stick up for CR and say let him stay so long as he uses one name. Better yet make him sign up as a member. Every board needs a court jester.
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) and her alleged sexual preferences are a subject of ridicule.
