leelye
Junior Member
Posts: 150
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Post by leelye on Jun 12, 2007 16:14:39 GMT -5
Yeah I know it's been a while since we've griped about this issue, but it really rubs me the wrong way. Was anything ever done or resolved with Foodtown over this issue or is it still status quo to call the Borough Publics Works Dept to come around and collect all these carts? I see about 3-5 on Conover Street, one on Institute St., and one on South St. not to mention 2-3 on Parker St as well. Please let me know where the Borough stands on this issue. If nothing else, Foodtown should be reimbursing the Borough for the return on their carts. I thought they (Foodtown) had a maintenance dept. to take care of the issue.
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Post by admin on Jun 12, 2007 17:11:59 GMT -5
Leelye,
Gripe all you want! You have been too quiet for too long. It is always good to have our finer residents posting.
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Post by Marc LeVine on Jun 12, 2007 17:23:07 GMT -5
It's time to revisit our results! Thank you Lee Lee. I see them, too, in your area, but am never quite sure how long they have there and who picked them up. I'll bring up discussion of the BIG PICTURE with this.
Marc
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Jun 12, 2007 18:25:03 GMT -5
This is resolved very simply in Cities where this is a very big problem. Poles are mounted framing the perimeter of the entrances of the super markets. They are spaced an inch or two narrower that the shopping cart, this prevented the shopping carts from growing legs, and requires the bi-ped shopper to invest in their personal folding shopping cart, like grand'ma used to have. Works great on those bi-ped trips to the laundry mat too. For the four wheeled shopper (Car aka Automobile) , an employee will escort the shopper to a locked removable post, allowing this shopper to bring their load to their vehical. For the supermarket owner, the ROI is their carts do not leave the premisis, and cart shinkage is resolved! or... United States Patent 4242668Abstract:A shopping cart theft prevention system which includes signal sending means and a receiver carried by the cart for receiving a cart-immobilizing or cart-mobilizing signal from the transmitter. The cart includes a frame and a sub-frame pivoted to the frame and bearing spaced cart-supporting wheels, the sub-frame being connected to the frame by a latch. The latch is opened whenever a signal is received from the transmitter by a receiver attached to the cart. Alternatively, a signal can be sent to keep the latch closed, and upon removal of the signal, the latch can be opened. The cart may carry a battery operated solenoid triggered by the radio signal. The plunger of the solenoid may comprise or activate a crossbar on the latch. Thus, when the solenoid is operated, the crossbar is moved so that the latch is open or closed, allowing the sub-frame and associated wheels to automatically swing out of operative position when open, thereby immobilizing the cart. |
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Jun 12, 2007 18:29:59 GMT -5
The Center for Prevention of Shopping Cart Abuse is an organization dedicated to preventing the pervasiveness of Shopping Cart abuse. We work on the local, the national, the international level and beyond to fight abusers who are trying to undermine fundamental pillars of society. Our site is here to help you understand this unspoken threat, to offer counsel to those who cause harm to the Cart and to sing the praises of the silver chariot of the parking lot. |
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Jun 12, 2007 18:31:07 GMT -5
Maybe.... the owner of Foodtown can copy this Editorial, post it up or pass is around
Editorial: When Enough is Enough
The World of Shopping Cart Abuse
by Chrissy Ciraolo
Arizona - Have you ever been driving home when you see an abandoned shopping cart on the side of the road? Chances are that you have. It may be from a nearby shopping center or grocery store. However, even if the shopping cart is spotted, it is a rare occasion that its witness will consider the ethical and moral wrongs of reckless abandonment and shopping cart abuse. Although the issue of shopping cart abuse seems insignificant and childish, it can in fact effect many groups of people.
Consider the consumer, for example. When a shopping cart is kidnapped from its respective store, and not returned, the consumer ends up having to pay for new shopping carts. In the same way that shoplifting can cause prices to go up, so can shopping cart theft. Not only does this burn a hole in the consumer's pockets, but it violates a basic moral principle; treat other people's property with respect. A shopping cart does not belong to a consumer, it is a borrowed tool. And when a tool is borrowed, it is expected to be returned to its owner.
Another way that shopping cart theft violates the principle of treating other's property with respect, is when adolescents take them for their own self indulgence. Often times a group of young adults will take a shopping cart and use it to race, smash, and destroy. Not only does this cause damage to the shopping cart itself, but it also damages whomever or whatever is in the path of this speedy cart of doom. Suppose the group of kids hit a mailbox or some form of shrubbery. The cost of repairing these will undoubtedly come from another persons pocket.
Aside from the theft and abuse of shopping carts, there is a third action that violates the principle of respect. Abandonment. After the children have had their fun, or the thief had his, the chances of the shopping cart ever making it back to its home are slim to none. Most likely the shopping cart will be left on the side of the road or in a dirty alley. There it will spend its last days wondering, “Where did I go wrong? I am just a simple shopping cart, who wanted nothing but the happiness of the people who utilized me in a safe and respectable manner”. This poor shopping cart may become the victim of car accidents, or could cause damage to the property of others.
Although shopping cart abuse awareness is extremely low, if enlightened, it is expected that others would agree with the moral and ethical wrongs of this conduct. However, due to the fact that all people who wish for their property to be respected often don't respect others, the world of shopping carts may never be safe. The only people that may disagree with the idea of respecting the property of others are those who commit the crimes. A child who takes joy rides in shopping carts obviously does not care about the well being of the shopping cart or the millions of people effected by its loss. A thief who takes and abandons a shopping cart is certainly not concerned with the status of the shopping cart or the harm it may cause.
But what can be done about this violent and disrespectful behavior? Very little. Those who believe it is acceptable to abuse a shopping cart justify their actions by stating that, “We were just having fun” or “It's just a shopping cart, it has no emotions or central nervous system, so what's the problem?” The only way to counter this destructive and disrespectful behavior is to be aware of shopping cart abuse. When you see a group of kids running a cart into a mailbox politely say, “Hey, every time you run that cart into that mailbox it cost me five dollars. Please, for the sake of humanity, stop”. More than likely the hoodlums will stop, and they might even pay you five dollars for your troubles.
It is a shame that when we see a shopping cart on the side of the road, we do not consider how or when it arrived at its current state of being. We merely pass it by, declaring it an insignificant detail. Because of the narrow scope and extreme self interest of people, a shopping cart can not be saved from this terrible fate. And in the end, much like people, a shopping cart will end up old, worn out and alone.
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leelye
Junior Member
Posts: 150
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Post by leelye on Jun 13, 2007 5:57:52 GMT -5
Leelye, Gripe all you want! You have been too quiet for too long. It is always good to have our finer residents posting. Thanks Brian  |
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leelye
Junior Member
Posts: 150
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Post by leelye on Jun 13, 2007 6:00:38 GMT -5
It's time to revisit our results! Thank you Lee Lee. I see them, too, in your area, but am never quite sure how long they have there and who picked them up. I'll bring up discussion of the BIG PICTURE with this. Marc Thanks Marc....It will really paint the Borough in a bad light when they have their tour on the 23rd.  |
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leelye
Junior Member
Posts: 150
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Post by leelye on Jun 13, 2007 6:03:34 GMT -5
Hi, Leelye! Allow me to say I've missed you! I hope you and your family are very well and happy. Anyway, I so understand your concern about the shopping carts. I used to live in Stonehurst and there were so many carts that belonged to the supermarket across the street, littering the green with bright plastic blue! Yuck! Hazards, too. Thank you Calliope....It's been an eyesore around here for far too long and should have been addressed sooner rather than later. Someone needs to be held accountable !!  |
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leelye
Junior Member
Posts: 150
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Post by leelye on Jun 13, 2007 6:07:20 GMT -5
Maybe.... the owner of Foodtown can copy this Editorial, post it up or pass is aroundEditorial: When Enough is Enough
The World of Shopping Cart Abuse by Chrissy Ciraolo Arizona - Have you ever been driving home when you see an abandoned shopping cart on the side of the road? Chances are that you have. It may be from a nearby shopping center or grocery store. However, even if the shopping cart is spotted, it is a rare occasion that its witness will consider the ethical and moral wrongs of reckless abandonment and shopping cart abuse. Although the issue of shopping cart abuse seems insignificant and childish, it can in fact effect many groups of people. Consider the consumer, for example. When a shopping cart is kidnapped from its respective store, and not returned, the consumer ends up having to pay for new shopping carts. In the same way that shoplifting can cause prices to go up, so can shopping cart theft. Not only does this burn a hole in the consumer's pockets, but it violates a basic moral principle; treat other people's property with respect. A shopping cart does not belong to a consumer, it is a borrowed tool. And when a tool is borrowed, it is expected to be returned to its owner. Another way that shopping cart theft violates the principle of treating other's property with respect, is when adolescents take them for their own self indulgence. Often times a group of young adults will take a shopping cart and use it to race, smash, and destroy. Not only does this cause damage to the shopping cart itself, but it also damages whomever or whatever is in the path of this speedy cart of doom. Suppose the group of kids hit a mailbox or some form of shrubbery. The cost of repairing these will undoubtedly come from another persons pocket. Aside from the theft and abuse of shopping carts, there is a third action that violates the principle of respect. Abandonment. After the children have had their fun, or the thief had his, the chances of the shopping cart ever making it back to its home are slim to none. Most likely the shopping cart will be left on the side of the road or in a dirty alley. There it will spend its last days wondering, “Where did I go wrong? I am just a simple shopping cart, who wanted nothing but the happiness of the people who utilized me in a safe and respectable manner”. This poor shopping cart may become the victim of car accidents, or could cause damage to the property of others. Although shopping cart abuse awareness is extremely low, if enlightened, it is expected that others would agree with the moral and ethical wrongs of this conduct. However, due to the fact that all people who wish for their property to be respected often don't respect others, the world of shopping carts may never be safe. The only people that may disagree with the idea of respecting the property of others are those who commit the crimes. A child who takes joy rides in shopping carts obviously does not care about the well being of the shopping cart or the millions of people effected by its loss. A thief who takes and abandons a shopping cart is certainly not concerned with the status of the shopping cart or the harm it may cause. But what can be done about this violent and disrespectful behavior? Very little. Those who believe it is acceptable to abuse a shopping cart justify their actions by stating that, “We were just having fun” or “It's just a shopping cart, it has no emotions or central nervous system, so what's the problem?” The only way to counter this destructive and disrespectful behavior is to be aware of shopping cart abuse. When you see a group of kids running a cart into a mailbox politely say, “Hey, every time you run that cart into that mailbox it cost me five dollars. Please, for the sake of humanity, stop”. More than likely the hoodlums will stop, and they might even pay you five dollars for your troubles. It is a shame that when we see a shopping cart on the side of the road, we do not consider how or when it arrived at its current state of being. We merely pass it by, declaring it an insignificant detail. Because of the narrow scope and extreme self interest of people, a shopping cart can not be saved from this terrible fate. And in the end, much like people, a shopping cart will end up old, worn out and alone. FIGFY...I exhalt your investigative skills and research !! Keep up the good work !! |
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Jun 13, 2007 7:11:46 GMT -5
Bob Crane was renown for showing up at cocktail parties with his “Jiggy Train”. This consisted of him, his date and a Shopping Cart. Guests described how towards the end of a soiree he would strip naked and invite people to “ride the caboose” while he edited over the Cart. It was noted that the he never brought the same date twice This is one of the earliest known photographs documenting Mr. Crane's obsession with Shopping Carts. He was a pioneer in the field of Cart miniaturization. Here we see him in his South American teaching lab. He has always been eager to exhibit his psychopathic precepts to the next generation. In recent years Bob Crane has been careful to not allow himself to be photographed. This image was recovered from a German cult known as Über Einkaufenkarrenverführer. Mr. Crane was abroad, traveling under an alias, and documenting the cutting edge techniques used by the group for Shopping Cart torture. Computer analysis has confirmed the presence of his reflection on the window. You can almost hear Sergeant Schultz's slurred bellow…"Hogan!" While the wacky antics of sitcom character Colonel Hogan were always good for a belly laugh, the real life atrocities of the actor who played him, Bob Crane, are difficult to stomach. He had been presumed dead from being bludgeoned in his Scottsdale apartment in 1978. But a recent Center for Prevention of Shopping Cart Abuse investigation revealed that the actor faked his own death in order to pursue his disturbing fetish for defiling Shopping Carts. Imagine returning from a family vacation and finding a dozen Carts piled into your fish pond. Now imagine each one of the carts has been re-welded into a shape representing a famous Austrian Olympian. Rosie Carmella had not even considered it until she and her children returned to Tempe, Arizona after a week in Acapulco. “It was horrible. We were all in such good spirits from our trip,” she told us. “Then I went into the backyard…and saw them…It was when I realized one looked unmistakably like Franz Klammer that I understood how afraid we all should be.” The incident was part of a series of ritualistic abuses in the area. All of these acts are now known to be the handiwork of Bob Crane and an underground network he has built up over the years. “There was a time when finding a Shopping Cart engraved with quotes from Barberella and covered with llama dung was unusual,” says Wickenburg, Arizona sheriff Tink Donner, “but these days we just shrug and mark it off as the work of the Shadow Lords.” The Shadow Lords is the moniker taken by Bob Crane and his faithful followers. Our work uncovering their operation has driven him deeper underground. But as we have seen in the past, Bob Crane is perfectly comfortable in dark places. What could be more relaxing the lying in the grass on a sunny day with a good book? For Bob Crane having a couple Carts to kick around between chapters spices up the situation. www.shoppingcartabuse.com/ |
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Jun 13, 2007 7:37:23 GMT -5
I almost choked on my coffee with laughter, FIBER!!! I feel the need to refer to you as the Overlord of the Obscure Internet. Please don't flatter me or I will be forced to seek out the world renoun (or is it renown) BRITISH LAWN MOWER MUSEUM! Trust me, I will not be "Sheepish" (British lawn mower humour), this is not an idle threat! Am I now AKA "OOI"? |
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Post by Marc LeVine on Jun 13, 2007 8:29:36 GMT -5
I would say so...since his sex guru, John Carpenter, allegedly stabbed him to death back in 1974!
When he was alive Crane LOVED to be photographed... as a sex addict he was. Great bio movie, Autofocus, with Greg Kinear as Crane and Willem Defoe as his voyeur and video taping sex guru, Carpenter. Maria Bello plays Cranes long suffering wife. But...they left the shopping cart scene out because they couldn't get Joan Kress to make a cameo appearance in the film!!
Marc
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Jun 13, 2007 8:33:25 GMT -5
couldn't get Joan Kress to make a cameo appearance in the film!! Marc Priceless! |
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Post by Marc LeVine on Jun 13, 2007 9:01:05 GMT -5
I have to agree. It really bothers me when we seem to have a plan; move on to other items and then, have to hear about it again!! When I've followed up on this in the past, I have been told that it's insignificant stuff.
I brought this to the table in 2005. As a result of discussions with the owners, Foodtown was supposed to have bought a new truck and was going to pick up these things, on their own, a few times per week. We also researched and located an electronic system they can buy to keep these things on premise and they rejected that idea for cost.
Back in the mid 90's John Rosseel and I got an ordinance passed that fined Foodtown for pickup and storage of each cart at the Borough yard. In '05, we learned that Foodtown hadn't been charged a dime over the past few years, prior to '05. Yet, our PW guys were wasting time and resources, not to mention physical injury, loading the carts on our trucks and unloading them at the PW site. This was supposed to be taken care of. Perhaps, someone has fallen out of compliance.
It is true that if 5 people leave Foodtown, the same day, with carts headed for one particular Street, that street will have 5 carts on it for - at least - several hours, until they are picked up. The question is how long they remain and who picks them up. If the Borough does, Foodtown or anyone else NEEDS TO BE FINED. These carts cost $250 - $300 each, so I know the stores want them back.
If you drive past the new Walmart, there are tons of a carts all along the roadways - it looks horrible. I am starting to believe towns should mandate that carts not be removed from a store's premises under any circumstances.
I'll let you all know what is discussed on Council after I bring this up and YES, I reminded Joe Bellina that the Historic Tour heads up Institute and the area should look especially in good shape.
Thanks,
Marc
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Post by admin on Jun 13, 2007 15:41:31 GMT -5
Marc, This all falls under the "Broken Windows" concept. Exept here in FB it is the "Shopping Cart" concept  |
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Post by Marc LeVine on Jun 13, 2007 16:00:30 GMT -5
Wasn't that your mistress that Bob Crane was shown pushing in that shopping cart photo that Fiber posted? Ooooh...sorry Mrs Sullivan.  |
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Post by admin on Jun 13, 2007 16:04:22 GMT -5
Wasn't that your mistress that Bob Crane was shown pushing in that shopping cart photo that Fiber posted? Ooooh...sorry Mrs Sullivan. [glow=red,2,300]OUCH![/glow] |
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leelye
Junior Member
Posts: 150
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Post by leelye on Jun 13, 2007 16:14:39 GMT -5
Apparently this turned into a hysterical post thanks to FIGFY et al. LOL
Bob Crane met his demise on June 29th, 1978 for the record.
Hopefully the Borough won't ignore this blight AKA Broken Window concept and the proper party will be held accountable from this moment forward. Also I hope it doesn't stop with the bus tour but continues to be enforced.
Thanks,
Leelye
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Jun 13, 2007 17:49:53 GMT -5
Wasn't that your mistress that Bob Crane was shown pushing in that shopping cart photo that Fiber posted? Ooooh...sorry Mrs Sullivan. Don't be fooled by the Blond Mistress PEOPLE, Brian was after the Shopping cart! He's been hanging with those "Shadow Lords" gang that Marc's not talking about! |
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Jun 13, 2007 18:33:53 GMT -5
Apparently this turned into a hysterical post thanks to FIGFY et al. LOL Bob Crane met his demise on June 29th, 1978 for the record. Hopefully the Borough won't ignore this blight AKA Broken Window concept and the proper party will be held accountable from this moment forward. Also I hope it doesn't stop with the bus tour but continues to be enforced. Thanks, Leelye ON A SERIOUS NOTE..Shopping carts strewn up and down streets is an offensive eyesore, like my mother taught me, when your finish with "it" put "it" back where you found "it"!~ It is a shameful sign of a lack of civility by the offenders! If the property owner was issues a summons (if there was an identifiable code violation), this practice would end quickly! How many years has this been endured? |
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Post by Marc LeVine on Jun 18, 2007 8:50:39 GMT -5
I have requested that Joe Bellina place the Shopping Cart issue on this evening's workshop agenda. You are encouraged to attend the meeting and discuss the matter during the public portion, tonight.
It seems like the old ordinance may need some amending, per Mr. Bellina. Foodtown is working the system and avoiding fines by picking up the carts from public works ahead of the three days they have to do so. Our guys still have to handle them on the streets and risk injury each time they pick some up. My own opinion is that there be an initial fine every time we pick one up and after the first day, the clock starts to run. How else you you incentivize the Foodtown folks to take them off our streets immediately or find ways to contain them in their parking lot. All the stuff the Fiber posted last week was already researched and presented to Foodtown almost three years ago.
Fiber and I may be right on the money, but Foodtown obviously doesn't want to spend any of it! As I mentioned before, I get very annoyed when we have to revisit something that was supposed to have been out to bed before...
Marc
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Post by LS on Jun 18, 2007 10:15:19 GMT -5
It is unfortunate that the business gets fined for the wrongdoing of its customers. Excessive fines... they are going to be costly for the business and the alternative is an expensive system costing the business money. Could coming down hard on the business cost us tax revenue and local jobs?
Why not have code enforcement sit outside the store for a week and fine offenders on the spot as they are walking away with carts? That would send the message to the offenders.
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Post by Bob Crane on Jun 18, 2007 11:20:21 GMT -5
where and when?
you should know that the "Shadow Lords" will be out in force tonight, and will seek out legal representation to help preserve our right to assemble our shopping carts without this pending harrasment.
This Boro's history on shopping cart matters is appauling and I will ask for this Mayor, and Mr. LeVine to step down, or the heat will be turned up!!!
There is a large number of Homeless Pathmark Shopping carts too that are ready to back us up, IN NUMBERS!
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Post by Marc LeVine on Jun 18, 2007 11:35:51 GMT -5
When you go into business, you accept whatever the social fallout and associated costs that come with the territory. Just like our landlords also need to. Why do those not associated with the business need to be inconvenienced or annoyed by it? Especially, when the business owner has other legitimate options and even requirements to satisfy.
Fiber and I both, for example, know what options are out there for supermarkets and retailers and what the most responsible business owners are doing to rectify the shopping cart problem. Back in '05 we provided Foodtown with financial data that showed them how an electronic shopping cart containment system pays for itself. They, however, chose not to choose that option and here we are AGAIN today.
LS, the full council will address the issue later tonight and, I'm sure, we will ALL come up with a workable solution for Foodtown. Problem is, as I stated earlier - I HATE REVISITING ISSUES THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN RESOLVED THE FIRST TIME AROUND. Sometimes, being too lenient gets you less than desirable results.
Marc
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Post by Frank Sutton on Jun 18, 2007 12:19:17 GMT -5
You may remember me as Gomer Pyle's drill Sergeant and sworn enemy of Bob Crane, that shameless video voyeur. Well, Col. Hogan may outrank me on TV, but not in the world of morality and decency. I fully support the Mayor and Councilman LeVine in the "Battle for Institute Street." This is a War on Shopping Carts and we all know war is hell. Follow my good friend on this one (click on link) and take up arms against the imperial and capitalistic food giant, who thoughtlessly has provoked this unnecessary war and must now pay its hefty price! www.youtube.com/watch?v=K92OVFeGgIESgt Carter |
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leelye
Junior Member
Posts: 150
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Post by leelye on Jun 18, 2007 15:52:19 GMT -5
I have requested that Joe Bellina place the Shopping Cart issue on this evening's workshop agenda. You are encouraged to attend the meeting and discuss the matter during the public portion, tonight. It seems like the old ordinance may need some amending, per Mr. Bellina. Foodtown is working the system and avoiding fines by picking up the carts from public works ahead of the three days they have to do so. Our guys still have to handle them on the streets and risk injury each time they pick some up. My own opinion is that there be an initial fine every time we pick one up and after the first day, the clock starts to run. How else you you incentivize the Foodtown folks to take them off our streets immediately or find ways to contain them in their parking lot. All the stuff the Fiber posted last week was already researched and presented to Foodtown almost three years ago. Fiber and I may be right on the money, but Foodtown obviously doesn't want to spend any of it! As I mentioned before, I get very annoyed when we have to revisit something that was supposed to have been out to bed before... Marc Marc, Unfortunately I won't be able to make tonight's workshop meeting due to a prior commitment....But there has been a cart in of 72 South Street for the past week that has gone unnoticed. Most of these places are rentals !! Leelye |
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Post by Gomer Smile on Jun 18, 2007 21:13:40 GMT -5
You may remember me as Gomer Pyle's drill Sergeant and sworn enemy of Bob Crane, that shameless video voyeur. Well, Col. Hogan may outrank me on TV, but not in the world of morality and decency. I fully support the Mayor and Councilman LeVine in the "Battle for Institute Street." This is a War on Shopping Carts and we all know war is hell. Follow my good friend on this one (click on link) and take up arms against the imperial and capitalistic food giant, who thoughtlessly has provoked this unnecessary war and must cast now pay its hefty price! www.youtube.com/watch?v=K92OVFeGgIESgt Carter Shazayam and Gollllly Sargent! I saw all those chopping carts, and I have one thing to say to that man, Mr Crane....for shame, for shame, for shame!!! Sgt. Carter was on a date with Luanne Poovey at food town, and I was hiding in a shopping singing "Ooooh myyy papaaaaa. To me you are so wonderfullllll" Its moments like these that make me and Rock continue the fight against Mr Craine and his "Shadow Lords" of Shopping Carts. |
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Post by Marc LeVine on Jun 19, 2007 8:06:01 GMT -5
Looks as if we are moving towards fining shopping cart owners $25 for every cart we pick up + additional storage fees for every day we keep them at the public works yard. An ordinance amendment is planned for the next regular meeting. Perhaps, this will do the trick in getting the owners to find a solid "business solution" to the problem.
Marc
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Post by LS on Jun 19, 2007 14:44:47 GMT -5
I look at the replies in this thread as the seriousness that this issue deserves. The Council seems to be bending over backwards to do anything bu trying to punish the people that are creating the nusiance.
The broken windows concept is great, but I think we should be fighting the ghetto concept first. Then we can work on broken windows.
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