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Post by admin on Jun 8, 2007 10:12:57 GMT -5
www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070606/OPINION/706060351/1030The above link is a story that appeared in the APP this past week. Being the administrator of a news based web site, I was interested in the content. This piece touches upon the effect the internet and subsequent communications have had on us all. I found it interesting that a paper considered outsourcing it's reporting duties to two indians sitting across the ocean watching live video feed. That is a reflection of our times. The above, and many other discussions, on and off of this web site have prompted me to write this little piece. The questions are, what relevance does a site like this have? What is it's role? Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I have been challenged by these questions several times this week. I will start addressing this by referring to a topic on this web site that I have stayed out of all week. freeholdvoice.proboards46.com/index.cgi?board=electedleaders&action=display&thread=1181044799That is the subject of elected leaders participating on a site like this. Andrew DeFonzo has clearly grappled with this and we have all been witness to what can happen when things go wrong from the incident in March, with Councilman LeVine. First, I will state that it is an asset to have both Andrew and Marc with us. Both have provided a great amount of information for us. Both have recognized the value that a site such as this has in reaching out to their constituents. Andrew grappled with the New ID topic. This shows how hard it can be for an elected leader to come on board. The answer is quite simple. Both on and off the BOE topic, Andrew will be watched. And that is good. That does not mean that he, or other elected leaders, should be shy about a site like this. Just the opposite. Participating is an asset for them, as well as us. They can reach out to the citizenry with the greatest of ease by being here. This is a reflection of our times. The internet age where communication and information is abundant and fast. Elected leaders and members of various committees and boards can use this site to reach more people and gain more interest. Make no mistake, though. When elected leaders like Marc and Andrew say " come to our meetings" they are right. That is the best thing any person can do and I will always back them up one hundred percent in achieving that goal. This site does offer an alternative with great value, but it is not a substitute. The bottom line, any elected leader who comes to this site is showing guts and insight. I challenge more of you to do so. There is a role here for you. I have made the offer many times that I will do what I can to accommodate you. And I will. This site may offer some challenges to the elected leaders who participate, but with some caution and wisdom, the pros are far greater than the cons. I know that many elected leaders will have rightful hesitation due to the nature of this site. After all, when you post, we know who you are and you do not always know who you are dealing with. I know that is hard. And yes, an elected leader on a site like this might have an anonyomous person taking cheap shots. We saw that this week when the Mayor attempted to get a message to us. I can only hope the mayor has a think skin and will continue to reach out to us here. If he posted on his own, that would be even better. I can not stop this thread without mentioning who this site is for first and foremost. You, the readers and participants. I will begin by referring to a post that popped up this past week. freeholdvoice.proboards46.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1180985562This was the letter from a mom. Bergstieger chimed in with:
So what’s your point? The point is clear. This is a person who has things to say. A person who cares. A person who wants and needs to be heard. This is the the target audience on this site. This is the person I really want to hear more from. This is where my challenges as an adminstrator come in. How do I get more people like Mom? On an open forum like this, you the reader/editors are what make for good reading. My favorite part of the news papers is the OP ED pages. I like not only the columnists, but the letters from the readers. That is what this site is. One great big OP ED page. And I love it. There is so much more to learn from you than from some pompous reporter or editor who wants to lead us with their own bias. And they do. I am reminded of Freehold Resident, one of our frequent participants. When he started participating on this site, he posted just news. Lots of it. One day, Bergsteiger wrote him and asked " what do you think, what are your opinions"? Ever since we haven't been able to shut Freehold Resident up. That is good! We have since found a person who views the world with different eyes than the rest of us. FR has engaged in some interesting debate with Bergsteiger and Lybian Sybil. That is the Freehold Voice. Another topic I dealt with in private discussion this week is........ What sells? As I mentioned to a friend, I can tell when the hard news hit our town by looking at the site tracker. This week we had officer scumlord which produced a record breaking thread. Past events would be the election, settlement, schools issues, and Councilman LeVine's comments. This site goes through the roof when these things occur. We always wind up with new participants and readers. It gives me a taste of what the real media go through. Sensationalism sells. It also gauges the mood of the people and what is on their minds. The difference is that there is no one person who dictates what is important and what should be on the "front page." You the readers do that. Another question I grappled with this week is why is there not more interest in the good stories. I will lead off by referring you to the following threads: freeholdvoice.proboards46.com/index.cgi?board=main&action=display&thread=1181177172freeholdvoice.proboards46.com/index.cgi?board=main&action=display&thread=1181242867freeholdvoice.proboards46.com/index.cgi?board=main&action=display&thread=1180000438freeholdvoice.proboards46.com/index.cgi?board=main&action=display&thread=1180126504All good things and all things that are relevant to our town. I really like the fact that Michael Shnoor took the time to put his Eagle Scout project on here. That is what a community board is for. Marc has capitalized on this and posted job openings. That gives us the element of a classified section on this site. When the VFW held the spaghetti dinner for the parade, tickets were sold from people reading this site. The list of good things goes on. As mentioned earlier, the hot topics are always the bad things that get people's emotions flaring. People want and need to be heard. The good things have their place too. When we forget that , we are lost. We should constantly look around at the good in our town and accentuate that at every chance. The point in this mindless rambling of mine is to reach out to those of you who have not participated, but have remained as readers. Site tracker does not lie. Neither does the amount of IP addresses I see visiting. I know there are many, many of you out ther remaining silent. This is an open forum, for all things Freehold. Both private citizens and elected leaders have no good reason to be shy about joining us and putting your views out here. This is the Freehold Voice-- you are the editor, writer, reader, and owner of this site. Use it. Brian admin
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Post by admin on Jun 8, 2007 10:39:45 GMT -5
One point I neglected to mention, that must be mentioned, is one of the failings of a forum like this. The very real possibility that errant or false information gets posted. Yes, it does happen. I will, again, refer to an example of of having elected leaders on board with us. Andrew DeFonzo has made it a point of clearing up misconceptions people have of the schools, laws, BOE etc. This illustrates the asset of having him here. As a result, Andrew has educated readers that much more.
Sometimes readers will even correct each other. Many times I have been corrected and that is great.
We should all guard against rumors and false information. It is one setback on a site like this, but we can overcome it.
I will end this post with the following question for discussion.
What do you think are the pro's and con's of this site?
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Post by Marc LeVine on Jun 8, 2007 12:16:08 GMT -5
I'll take the first crack at this. For me ( I know I sound like Randy Jackson on "American Idol.") the biggest PRO is that a modern, Internet forum exists for the people of Freehold Borough.
The biggest CON is that it is often disappoints. Why? There are a whole host of reasons, including but not limited to the following:
1) There are too many TOXIC anonymous posters with personal vendettas toward others - especially local officials.
2) Anger and bitterness seem to prevail over good will and optimism, routinely. The site DEFINITELY has a negativity bias.
3) Often, there is excessive "Baiting" on the site. Posters are "egg-ed" on and even patronized at times. Not everyone here is a "PEOPLE dude or dudette."
4) Moderators must encourage reasonable expression and do a better job controlling poisonous "X-pression."
5) Too much reader attention is paid to controversy and not enough is given to general information regarding local sports, things to do in town and Freehold Borough History.
6) Too many important locally elected officials and other Freehold residents who consider themselves of "higher principle" do not participate here to round out the Op-ed.
7) The site is "out there" for people to judge Freehold Borough. Double-edged sword. I'll leave it at that.
8) Too many hits/visits, too few posters. Why? See reasons 1-7.
9) Too few participants search for and post interesting articles about Freehold Borough and other helpful items.
10) Too many profess to have dogmatic answers to nefarious questions they don't understand in the first place. Everyone thinks himself a lawyer or field expert and often share incorrect information or they assumes what is not prudent or possible.
These are my opinions and the opinions of others I've heard. If the Freehold Voice is destined to become just that - it must start taking the high road in communications and leaving turn away from the "dark side." Every town has issues. Many worse than ours. The question to all is - you live here. How do you want others to view our town? When you trash your town, people look down on you as residents.
If you want better neighbors to move in next door, you have to stop selling us to the losers. Remember, Type Freehold into Google and this site appears.
Marc
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bergsteiger
Full Member
War is simple, direct, and ruthless
Posts: 1,189
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Post by bergsteiger on Jun 8, 2007 12:44:37 GMT -5
Marc,
Do you have anything positive to say? Could you try not to be so negative?
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Post by Marc LeVine on Jun 8, 2007 13:05:03 GMT -5
Nah...my doctor tried to do that when I told him that I read that I only had a 15% chance of living 5 years with cancer. He said in my case, actually, I have a 40% chance. "That's 300% better than what you originally read on the Internet," he told me. How does that relate to participation on this board?
Well...mine is only a single opinion (though with much input from others). So far, a small percentage of response, negative or otherwise.
Let's find out, in this case, if there is also a 300% improvement in positive expression. Wow! This could mean, still - perhaps, that less than 50% of the participants on the Freehold Voice share a positive outlook.
Statistics and numbers, aside, I'm positive about everything in life - including holding the belief that I will beat my Cancer and having enough faith in others to believe this board can have a positive future if we recognizes its faults and all agree to work together to correct them.
Marc
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Post by admin on Jun 8, 2007 21:51:03 GMT -5
I'll take the first crack at this. For me ( I know I sound like Randy Jackson on "American Idol.") the biggest PRO is that a modern, Internet forum exists for the people of Freehold Borough. The biggest CON is that it is often disappoints. Why? There are a whole host of reasons, including but not limited to the following: 1) There are too many TOXIC anonymous posters with personal vendettas toward others - especially local officials. 2) Anger and bitterness seem to prevail over good will and optimism, routinely. The site DEFINITELY has a negativity bias. 3) Often, there is excessive "Baiting" on the site. Posters are "egg-ed" on and even patronized at times. Not everyone here is a "PEOPLE dude or dudette." 4) Moderators must encourage reasonable expression and do a better job controlling poisonous "X-pression." 5) Too much reader attention is paid to controversy and not enough is given to general information regarding local sports, things to do in town and Freehold Borough History. 6) Too many important locally elected officials and other Freehold residents who consider themselves of "higher principle" do not participate here to round out the Op-ed. 7) The site is "out there" for people to judge Freehold Borough. Double-edged sword. I'll leave it at that. 8) Too many hits/visits, too few posters. Why? See reasons 1-7. 9) Too few participants search for and post interesting articles about Freehold Borough and other helpful items. 10) Too many profess to have dogmatic answers to nefarious questions they don't understand in the first place. Everyone thinks himself a lawyer or field expert and often share incorrect information or they assumes what is not prudent or possible. These are my opinions and the opinions of others I've heard. If the Freehold Voice is destined to become just that - it must start taking the high road in communications and leaving turn away from the "dark side." Every town has issues. Many worse than ours. The question to all is - you live here. How do you want others to view our town? When you trash your town, people look down on you as residents. If you want better neighbors to move in next door, you have to stop selling us to the losers. Remember, Type Freehold into Google and this site appears. Marc Marc, That is an interesting start. To some degree or another I did cover much of what you wrote in my initial post. Instead of picking you apart, I would rather dig a bit more. What would you do to change the tone etc? Especially without losing the open forum approach. I loath censorship, so that is not a likely approach. If anything, I have encouraged people to come here. And I have certainly tried to get diverse opinions and perspectives from our participants. I do want to offer a challange. One of the pro's to an open forum is that those who think they are above what they see, or are shy of, turned off by, or disagree with, can come on board and add their own flavor. Why not do it? |
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Post by Jupiter on Jun 10, 2007 1:41:25 GMT -5
I'll take the first crack at this. For me ( I know I sound like Randy Jackson on "American Idol.") the biggest PRO is that a modern, Internet forum exists for the people of Freehold Borough. The biggest CON is that it is often disappoints. Why? There are a whole host of reasons, including but not limited to the following: 1) There are too many TOXIC anonymous posters with personal vendettas toward others - especially local officials. 2) Anger and bitterness seem to prevail over good will and optimism, routinely. The site DEFINITELY has a negativity bias. 3) Often, there is excessive "Baiting" on the site. Posters are "egg-ed" on and even patronized at times. Not everyone here is a "PEOPLE dude or dudette." 4) Moderators must encourage reasonable expression and do a better job controlling poisonous "X-pression." 5) Too much reader attention is paid to controversy and not enough is given to general information regarding local sports, things to do in town and Freehold Borough History. 6) Too many important locally elected officials and other Freehold residents who consider themselves of "higher principle" do not participate here to round out the Op-ed. 7) The site is "out there" for people to judge Freehold Borough. Double-edged sword. I'll leave it at that. 8) Too many hits/visits, too few posters. Why? See reasons 1-7. 9) Too few participants search for and post interesting articles about Freehold Borough and other helpful items. 10) Too many profess to have dogmatic answers to nefarious questions they don't understand in the first place. Everyone thinks himself a lawyer or field expert and often share incorrect information or they assumes what is not prudent or possible. These are my opinions and the opinions of others I've heard. If the Freehold Voice is destined to become just that - it must start taking the high road in communications and leaving turn away from the "dark side." Every town has issues. Many worse than ours. The question to all is - you live here. How do you want others to view our town? When you trash your town, people look down on you as residents. If you want better neighbors to move in next door, you have to stop selling us to the losers. Remember, Type Freehold into Google and this site appears. Marc You P.E.O.P.L.E are like the UNIVERSE. mostly empty, Vast and vacuous yet full of it's self. There is a lot of fixing up to do before you can sell this Boro to a savvy developer. www.children.org/parasiteAppeal.asp?sid=035E0DA5-4482-4DC0-A491-DDD5062E9101Fact is there is more retail space inventory that 4 years ago from existing stock. whats the explanations? This Blog. Our Residential Real Estate Market should be red hot, but its not, because of this Blog. You can't park an SUV in the Boro business district with out being accosted by illegal day laborers, thats the fault of this Blog. The Economy of this Boro is dieing, and thats the fault of this Blog. The Schools are from Hunger, but thats the fault of this Blod too. If you cant take the heat here Mister "City Jounal" subscriber, get out! But that too is the fault of this Blog, no reflection on you or the rest of the "higher principle" Boro elite. 1) There are too many TOXIC anonymous posters with personal vendettas toward others - especially local officials. **You have a guilty conscious, Vendetta? She's one heck of a B_itch. 2) Anger and bitterness seem to prevail over good will and optimism, routinely. The site DEFINITELY has a negativity bias. ** Optimistic living in your fancy Boro homes, You and the council need to get out to meet with the 12,000 people who live here Mayberry.3) Often, there is excessive "Baiting" on the site. Posters are "egg-ed" on and even patronized at times. Not everyone here is a "PEOPLE dude or dudette ."**This is the life of a politician. but your correct, we have the cleanest, smartest, brightest politicians in all of America, how dare they. 4) Moderators must encourage reasonable expression and do a better job controlling poisonous "X-pression." **Like the three monkeys that hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. People as smart as smart as you, we can read between the casual lines5) Too much reader attention is paid to controversy and not enough is given to general information regarding local sports, things to do in town and Freehold Borough History. ** How unexpected, though ever occur to your than most people in town don't read this site,much less, care about this site? vacuous yet full of it's self. When and where is the Crypts membership drive on Bond Street? 6) Too many important locally elected officials and other Freehold residents who consider themselves of "higher principle" do not participate here to round out the Op-ed .** How offensive, are you suggesting that there are a hand full of "Superior Beings" and the rest of the Borough belongs on "SPRINGER". I thought the locally elected officials and other Freehold residents who consider themselves of "higher principle" you reference only attend highbrow events such as the ballet or the opera, no time to blog like you do.7) The site is "out there" for people to judge Freehold Borough. Double-edged sword. I'll leave it at that. **Yet here you are regurgitating NT, the APP and City Journal. Your about as "out there" as this site, it is a reflection of you. 8) Too many hits/visits, too few posters. Why? See reasons 1-7. **See Throckmortin, see Main Street, See Bond Street. You and the council need to see Districts 1-6 without the Rose colored glasses. 9) Too few participants search for and post interesting articles about Freehold Borough and other helpful items. ** zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. 10) Too many profess to have dogmatic answers to nefarious questions they don't understand in the first place. Everyone thinks himself a lawyer or field expert and often share incorrect information or they assumes what is not prudent or possible. **Because you and the council are the smartest minds in town not the growing number of sale signs People. |
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Post by Jupiter on Jun 10, 2007 1:51:26 GMT -5
Typo, I am sure you all understand and forgive.
Fact is there is more EMPTY retail space inventory that 4 years ago from existing stock. whats the explanations? This Blog.
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Jun 10, 2007 9:16:55 GMT -5
OK My 2 cents.... Marc asks about why there is not much "Good News" being delivered here? People today do not read papers, or watch the news for good news, every one is aware of this! We have all been trained to look for fascinating stories that titillate and sensationalized.....Remember March 6th! A lot of what your asking for should be on the Boros web site, Good News, Family Event, Sponsored events, Community Yard Sales, Youth Activities, Fellowship Activities, Community Fundraisers, Volunteerism Opportunities, Weather. The Boros web site is Minimal at best! I have looked at the counties web site, and the Municipal Web sites linked in through it, I'll assign this project to our emerging PR committee This Boro needs a "Communication” Office! If there is a drive to reinvent this fine "Diminutive Gotham ", there must be an effort to better manage our image concurrent to redevelopment! With an effective Communications Office in place, the craziness of this site will be laughed off as such. Every community has this issue, look at what gets posted about Manalapan for gods sake, what you read here about the Boro is NOTHING by comparison! Our council and Boro leadership needs not to have Rose Colored Glasses as mentioned a few posts back, they need to articulate a vision, and Boro Mission statement on the Boro’s web site. The Press Release Marc Mentioned about the Adoption of Rental Board Advisory Recommendations is an example of the lack of such a Communications Office, these necessary mentions become habitual, not an "OPPS"- Gaff moment. The Shoor Deplama Development Study result should be on the Boros web site, along with the Graphic rendering of our “FREEHOLD OF THE FUTURE”. What you read on this site is uncontrollable, (unbalanced if you prefer), some times sorted, and some times inaccurate truths. I have been meaning to ask, who has paid for the URL www.people-fb.com, and what name, person or entity, is it register under. Who OWNES THIS SITE? Is is a benevolent gift from the WEB GODS? That is who gets to control the content here! The pretense of this site is first amendment freedom of speech! That’s what you see here like it or not. If not, then the WEB GODS need to change the rules and post a new disclaimer that all comments must conform to the ruling FB Voice Polit Bureau. This leads to why Marc is correctly concerned. THIS SITE mostly, has become a focal “Dirty Laundry” posted by unregistered POSTERS, and the rules need to change in order to prevent Malicious content postings, Baiting, Taunting, Irresponsible and baseless verbiage. Anyone can read all of the posts, there is nothing to hide here. Moving forward, I would not object too, ...... anyone can post here, but you must register! Marc is concerned that the “Drive By” anonymous posters are less responsible, and bring done the quality of the dialogue here. This is controllable but not unpreventable. |
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Post by unwelcome guest on Jun 10, 2007 9:21:31 GMT -5
A few brief comments in response to the missive from the patron deity of law and social order (or are you the planet Jupiter? Please say you are, because that would just be so freaking cool!):
Some of that retail space has been vacant for over 10 years. To blame a blog message board rather than the people tasked with marketing our downtown (not just as a place to eat dinner or stagger around drunk looking at antique cars, but as a place to do business) is ridiculous. Use the Google, find the website for RiverCenter in Red Bank, than find the FCP site. Read the content on those sites, especially the minutes of the various committees. Compare what you find, objectively. Then, come back and "explanations" to us who is incompetent, clueless and ultimately, responsible for the shambles that is Historic Freehold Center.
Because residential real estate elsewhere in Monmouth County is red hot? </snark>
I park downtown on a regular basis -- in an SUV -- and have never "been accosted" by day laborers. I have, however, found someone I presume was a day laborer --his English skills were not good non-existant, so I couldn't ask what his profession was -- trying to enter my house through the front door one evening. Using your logic, should I blame that on this blog message board, rather than on the proliferation of slumlord owned rentals in my neighborhood?
Sorry, can't pin that on on this blog message board, either.
The economy of Freehold Borough has been slowly dying since Karaghusian closed the rug mill. The slight up-tick in the early '90s (our "glory days", to insert a gratuitious Brooooce reference) was a byproduct of increased traffic through town from (1) the Mall (which has no food service of note - Ruby Tuesday and a food court? What were they thinking? However, the new lifestyle expansion will be the coup de grace for our little downtown! Cheesecake Factory! Yum!) and (2) the immense number of residential units built west of town - you know, the houses that are occupied by the people who actually hire the day laborers that live here in town? All roads lead to and through FB, or at least they seem to until you learn the "backstreets" (YES! Broooce again!), then there is no point in coming anywhere near town unless it is for a $12 chocolate martini, or a couple of guys to spread mulch for $12 an hour.
I don't know what this means, but it sure does make me laugh.
It's "Crips", son, not "Crypts"... if you are going to dress someone down, it's a lot more effective if you actually know what you are talking about.
And just what IS your point? On one hand, you blame this blog message board for every ill circumstance ever visited on FB, and on the other hand, you say it is wrong to encourage talk about the good and positive aspects of the town when we could be discussing street gang "membership drives"... or is your twisted "point" that it would somehow benefit the town to ignore the good, and focus entirely on the bad ('cause that would be a real help to the flagging real estate market, and give a real boost the the business community!)
Again, I don't know what you are trying to say, but your incoherent rage is pure comedy gold.
This town has bigger demons to struggle with than a low-visitation, lower-participation blog message board.
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Post by unwelcome guest on Jun 10, 2007 9:52:29 GMT -5
A lot of what your asking for should be on the Boros web site, Good News, Family Event, Sponsored events, Community Yard Sales, Youth Activities, Fellowship Activities, Community Fundraisers, Volunteerism Opportunities, Weather. The Boros web site is Minimal at best! I have looked at the counties web site, and the Municipal Web sites linked in through it, I'll assign this project to our emerging PR committee Websites cost money, good websites cost lots of money. Maintaining them also costs money. If the Borough Council added ongoing webmastering and development costs to the municipal budget, what do you suppose would happen? If the Borough Council added a Communications Office, where do you suppose the money to staff and run it would come from? Has the final Vision Study ever been issued? Is there a marketing plan? All I've seen in the papers is that $25K was spent to have Schoor DaPalma cofirm that yes indeedy our downtown sucks very badly, we should declare much of the town to be "an area in need of rehabilitation," and we need New! Design! Guidelines! (from Schoor DePalma, natch) to replace the existing design guidelines from Beyer Blinder Bell that the FCP paid umpty-ump dollars for wayback when. "some times inaccurate truths"? You should be a politician. If it weighs on you so much, why don't you just do a whois lookup? |
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Jun 10, 2007 9:58:03 GMT -5
unwelcome guest ...A few brief comments in response to the missive from the patron deity of law and social order (or are you the planet Jupiter?MISSIVE??? Do you mean Massive or Submissive? OK, OK it took a few reading but I got it...MESSAGE. U Cooo lill "B"  "Some of that retail space has been vacant for over 10 years."Thats comforting, is that the fault of FCP or the Council, Jupiter, The Illegal Aliens, The Palestinians, Iraq, Vladimir Putin, Martians....Your point is what? BTW, you mean there are landlords that let their property stay vacant for a decade at a time....I'm confused, is this OK with you? Exactly what location is this please? "come back and "explanations" to us " You mean "Explain" to us, Like they say about your glass house, your are as bad a Jupiter!~ You are complaining about the conditions, and accepting the conditions around FB, thats odd. Are you saying you enjoy a $12 Chocolate Martini, and the company of a $12 an hour Day Laborer?
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Jun 10, 2007 10:30:17 GMT -5
Geee Unwelcomed, how does this Boro pay for the Planning Board, and Zoning Board, I guess those funds are available from the same pool a Communications Office can be funded from.
SO "what do you (I) suppose would happen", we'd have a great focal point to attract investors and visitors. You seem to know about Technology, you should know that a good Website drives revenue. Don't you want this Boro to drive revenue without raising properly tax of the home owner. An investment in good PR, Marketing and through a WEB presents can be a great investment with a promising ROI.
When you look for a vacation spot, do you not so "Web Reconnaissance" first? Property investors and developers do the same!
This is why we have Slumlord, our Web presents gice no reason for a 2nd look! You will not understand this much needed concept that heslp attract investment.
BTW...Not many municipalities would tolerate store fronts staying empty for 10 years like you depicted. These issues get corrected QUICKLY not left to linger, because it has a domino effect, as does the right kind of redevelopment too!
Good Web Marketing does not need to cost $100K! You just need to think and look out side of the BOX!
ANYWAY, I will not E-bate you, enjoy your day!
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Post by unwelcome guest on Jun 10, 2007 10:31:19 GMT -5
"Some of that retail space has been vacant for over 10 years."Thats comforting, is that the fault of FCP or the Council, Jupiter, The Illegal Aliens, The Palestinians, Iraq, Vladimir Putin, Martians....Your point is what? BTW, you mean there are landlords that let their property stay vacant for a decade at a time....I'm confused, is this OK with you? Exactly what location is this please? Find out for yourself. Go downtown, inventory the vacant space, and ask when it was last occupied. I did, and I don't owe you anything further if you are too lazy to do the work yourself. I will tell you that if the FCP did the job they are funded to do - as I said before, to market the downtown not just to visitors, but to potential business owners - no landlord would be willing to let their property lie fallow for a decade. But in FB, as it stands today, what difference does it make either way? Poor dear literal (and semi literate) fiberperson, I was mocking Jupiter. (See, you took all the fun out if it. <Insert boo-hoo face emoticon>) I accept none of it, and did what I was able to, to change it, until I was disabused of the notion by the FB powers that be and those in their employ. I merely think that the Gaseous One was being harsh in his/its condemnation of this blog message board, which really has little or no effect on anything that happens here in little FB, good or bad. (Mr. LeVine's faux pas excepted.) In words you might be able to comprehend, I was DEFENDING this board and its participants. Clearly I was mistaken in my defense, and accept your correction. I live in the Borough (for the moment, at least) and enjoy neither. Nor, for that matter, do i enjoy the company of the village idiot. In your words, you've earned an IGGY! |
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Jun 10, 2007 10:38:11 GMT -5
Jupiter -- the largest mass of gaseousness in the galaxy. So aptly named. Jupiter is known as the "gas giant" in astronomy. Perhaps you were being a bit tongue in cheek, blaming FB's woes on this site. But if this site is, as you deem, "vast and vacuous" like the universe to which you so ironically compare (pot, kettle; kettle, pot), you fail miserably to see that this is merely a forum for dialogue, hopefully meaningful, to arrive at potential solutions to existing challenges. When true colors reveal themselves, people learn to ignore the lunatic ravings of a dysfunctional ego. By the way, that was not a typo you pointed out, in editorial parlance, it was an omission. There are numerous typos in your rant. Not enough coffee here for me to read ALL THAT on a Sunday AM, can't believe YOU did!!! I'll just say DITTO TY Calli. I am getting to the point where just because it's posted, I don;t have to read it.... Like the Polo and Cricket results on the APP sports sections just more content to fill pages! Where's my JOE? (Chocolate Martini sounded good too!) |
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Jun 10, 2007 10:51:19 GMT -5
Boo Hoo.... But we have hardly gotten to become best chumms,... I am torn being iggy'd and your leaving too...how sad for me...such a loss  (two, three, four...) OK I'm over it now, OMG for a few moments I felt immense emptiness. An emptyness more vast than Jupiters Gas!!! I WILL BE STRONG!  |
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Jun 10, 2007 11:10:01 GMT -5
UG The Baiter..."Some of that retail space has been vacant for over 10 years."....
"FIGFY-Question" ..."Exactly what location is this please?"
"UG-Answer"..."Find out for yourself. Go downtown, inventory the vacant space, and ask when it was last occupied."
This is a fine example of the Negative BS Marc is questioning with his "The biggest CON" top ten post.
If you make a point then MAKE THE POINT RESPONSIBLY AND SUPPORT IT WITH FINDINGS AND FACTS!
With out being forthcoming, you might as well go take Jupiter's gas!
Further, this explains Brian's article about traditional News Media, and Blogs, Message Boards, Posts etc. An editor will not (should not) commit any content to print, broadcast ect., to public exposure without knowing the facts are the facts! UG, will you share your facts (not your source) that support your statements?
Brian, If UG will not or can not, the maybe you need to show some responsibility and "manage" the post in question?
Thank you UG! Good job this morning!
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Post by unwelcome guest on Jun 10, 2007 12:02:16 GMT -5
UG The Baiter..."Some of that retail space has been vacant for over 10 years.".... " FIGFY-Question" ..."Exactly what location is this please?" " UG-Answer"..."Find out for yourself. Go downtown, inventory the vacant space, and ask when it was last occupied." This is a fine example of the Negative BS Marc is questioning with his " The biggest CON" top ten post. If you make a point then MAKE THE POINT RESPONSIBLY AND SUPPORT IT WITH FINDINGS AND FACTS! With out being forthcoming, you can might as well go take Jupiter's gas! Further, this explains Brian's article about traditional News Media, and Blogs, Message Boards, Posts etc. An editor will not (should not) commit any content to print, broadcast ect., to public exposure without knowing the facts are the facts! UG, will you share your facts (not your source) that support your statements? Brian, If UG will not or can not, the maybe you need to show some responsibility and "manage" the post in question? Thank you UG! Good job this morning! Yes, Brian, please, do "manage" delete all my posts. I don't provide "information on demand" for those who are too lazy to do even the tiniest bit of legwork for themselves. Since obviously my refusal to comply is so offensive I must be "managed," everything I have ever posted is surely tainted by the same non-compliance with your good friend fiberisfullofit's rules of participation. |
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Jun 10, 2007 13:28:04 GMT -5
UG The Baiter..."Some of that retail space has been vacant for over 10 years.".... " FIGFY-Question" ..."Exactly what location is this please?" " UG-Answer"..."Find out for yourself. Go downtown, inventory the vacant space, and ask when it was last occupied." This is a fine example of the Negative BS Marc is questioning with his " The biggest CON" top ten post. If you make a point then MAKE THE POINT RESPONSIBLY AND SUPPORT IT WITH FINDINGS AND FACTS! With out being forthcoming, you can might as well go take Jupiter's gas! Further, this explains Brian's article about traditional News Media, and Blogs, Message Boards, Posts etc. An editor will not (should not) commit any content to print, broadcast ect., to public exposure without knowing the facts are the facts! UG, will you share your facts (not your source) that support your statements? Brian, If UG will not or can not, the maybe you need to show some responsibility and "manage" the post in question? Thank you UG! Good job this morning! Yes, Brian, please, do "manage" delete all my posts. I don't provide "information on demand" for those who are too lazy to do even the tiniest bit of legwork for themselves. Since obviously my refusal to comply is so offensive I must be "managed," everything I have ever posted is surely tainted by the same non-compliance with your good friend fiberisfullofit's rules of participation. Some of that retail space has been vacant for over 10 years.".... "FIGFY-Question" ..."Exactly what location is this please?" "UG-Answer"..."Find out for yourself. Go downtown, inventory the vacant space, and ask when it was last occupied." So we can presume that there is not a store front left vacant for 10 years...since the address you have so painstakingly identified, is left as a mystery? For me to know and you to find out....  You are a character. BTW, care to register for this site, you have been here frequently, might as well! You take this all so personal, and I was so looking forward to being iggy'd! |
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Post by admin on Jun 11, 2007 8:40:01 GMT -5
Fiber and UG,
You have effectively demonstrated some of the failings that an open forum like this can have. You have gone off topic and allowed yourselves to bait and incite eachother into a slugfest.
The ironic part, both of you, and Jupiter, have all sprinkled in some good points in your posts.
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Post by Marc LeVine on Jun 11, 2007 9:02:24 GMT -5
Read Jupiter...case closed.
Actually, I expected some of the people with the "posting styles" to which I alluded, to strike back at my criticisms. That's OK. They can't help themselves. But when you mention, "tone," you hit the nail on the head. We all know there are better ways of getting points across - in more civil ways - than some of the posters wish to on this board. Fortunately, this is not the case for everyone.
Some of those who post here take no prisoners in their commentary. In a single post regarding their disagreement (any) thay can make our town sound like it's the bowels of hell and will try to convince others that the council, the FCP, etc. are the Devil's servants. Often, the main point they are trying to make gets lost in the insanity of their message. We know things are never as bad as they may say...but it sure as heck scares off those not as familiar with situations as the better informed and less negative folks.
And... these posters will defend themselves by conecting what they write to the mood of their frustration. Others might just call it - evidence of bad attitudes. Delete the unfair condemnations of our town and the stinging insults to others and you STILL can have sufficient disagreement based on the facts or at least, rational perceptions. By the way, it's much more credible this way, don't you think?
It's troubling to see other remarks such as helpful and interesting information passed off as "zzzzzzzz." Or that this board isn't the appropriate place for that kind of stuff. And why not? Have some people sunk so low that good news and pleasant thoughts are a bad thing?
Take my comments as you will, everyone. I offered them objectively and with good thought and input included. No, the Freehold Voice does not have to change. It can go on as it is and continue to exclude the voices of many who would otherwise post if they felt it to be worthwhile.
Marc
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Post by Marc LeVine on Jun 11, 2007 10:38:36 GMT -5
Ahhhh.. exactly my point in the subsequent post. Good stuff from a nice young Borough resident. Not only did the Freehold Voice provide him with another good local outlet for his charitable work, but also a place to get positive feedback from posters on his Boy Scout efforts. Does knowing that impressionable youngsters may be reading the board from time to time change your thoughts about what may be included here?
I'm for letting them see that there can be open disagreements with government and constructive criticisms about our town, but not for viewing some of the trash talking that often appears here from time to time.
Marc
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Post by Marc LeVine on Jun 11, 2007 10:48:37 GMT -5
In fact, the Borough will soon have a PR Committee made up of several local PR professionals and other media specialist that will help "get the word out" on various topics, whether they be related to the work of our many committees and commssions or other important information for the public, including our residents. They will also work closely with the FCP to enhance the town's image for future visitors, storeowners and even homebuyers interested in relocating here.
This new committee was reported in the Asbury Park Press a few months ago and will probablty be approved by Council at the next meeting.
The Committee folks are volunteering their time to do the work and there are several interested folks coming on board with great backgrounds.
Marc
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Post by Jupiter on Jun 11, 2007 13:27:35 GMT -5
Read Jupiter...case closed. Actually, I expected some of the people with the "posting styles" to which I alluded, to strike back at my criticisms. That's OK. They can't help themselves. But when you mention, "tone," you hit the nail on the head. We all know there are better ways of getting points across - in more civil ways - than some of the posters wish to on this board. Fortunately, this is not the case for everyone. Some of those who post here take no prisoners in their commentary. In a single post regarding their disagreement (any) thay can make our town sound like it's the bowels of hell and will try to convince others that the council, the FCP, etc. are the Devil's servants. Often, the main point they are trying to make gets lost in the insanity of their message. We know things are never as bad as they may say...but it sure as heck scares off those not as familiar with situations as the better informed and less negative folks. And... these posters will defend themselves by conecting what they write to the mood of their frustration. Others might just call it - evidence of bad attitudes. Delete the unfair condemnations of our town and the stinging insults to others and you STILL can have sufficient disagreement based on the facts or at least, rational perceptions. By the way, it's much more credible this way, don't you think? It's troubling to see other remarks such as helpful and interesting information passed off as "zzzzzzzz." Or that this board isn't the appropriate place for that kind of stuff. And why not? Have some people sunk so low that good news and pleasant thoughts are a bad thing? Take my comments as you will, everyone. I offered them objectively and with good thought and input included. No, the Freehold Voice does not have to change. It can go on as it is and continue to exclude the voices of many who would otherwise post if they felt it to be worthwhile. Marc No, Read Councilmen LeVine, case closed |
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Post by Jupiter on Jun 11, 2007 13:52:50 GMT -5
Fiber and UG, You have effectively demonstrated some of the failings that an open forum like this can have. You have gone off topic and allowed yourselves to bait and incite each other into a slugfest. The ironic part, both of you, and Jupiter, have all sprinkled in some good points in your posts. 1st, do not group me in with these 2. 2nd, when the truth is presented here, heads go deeper into the sand, all that is posted becomes more of a non-admistion to anything being wrong with your Boro. So, Schools about over, I am taking my kids, mother and family out of this Gaseous Council creation. You all can dig out of the mess you created, as another fine freeholder family escapes before Casa Freehold and Mayor By Absentia Frank put icing on the pinata. You need to listen to Rich K. better!, He's the only sane poster here. Not because hes long gone. He just has good common sense, and does not make excuses. So please excuse me, the moving trucks are about to leave with out me, have a taco on me. |
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Post by admin on Jun 11, 2007 14:14:23 GMT -5
Fiber and UG, You have effectively demonstrated some of the failings that an open forum like this can have. You have gone off topic and allowed yourselves to bait and incite each other into a slugfest. The ironic part, both of you, and Jupiter, have all sprinkled in some good points in your posts. 1st, do not group me in with these 2. 2nd, when the truth is presented here, heads go deeper into the sand, all that is posted becomes more of a non-admistion to anything being wrong with your Boro. So, Schools about over, I am taking my kids, mother and family out of this Gaseous Council creation. You all can dig out of the mess you created, as another fine freeholder family escapes before Casa Freehold and Mayor By Absentia Frank put icing on the pinata. You need to listen to Rich K. better!, He's the only sane poster here. Not because hes long gone. He just has good common sense, and does not make excuses. So please excuse me, the moving trucks are about to leave with out me, have a taco on me. Again, you are off topic Nobody has their heads in the sand on this site. Instead of throwing out cheep accusations, go to the appropriate threads and state what the governing body has done wrong, as well as solutions. The two people you don't want to be grouped in with are clearly as frustrated about this town as you are. You are right about Rich K. Moving? Good luck to you and I don't blame you. Just do yourself a favor and get out of New Joisy. I know many people are moving and I will never criticize them for it. Having grown up at the shore, I watched first hand as Asbury Park and Long Branch both went in the toilet. And yes, FB is following suit. |
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Post by Freehold Resident on Jun 11, 2007 14:23:37 GMT -5
Jupiter -
You almost had me until the moving out part. It's always easier to run for cover than for the Council. You like Rich K? I do, too. But, have you ever taken his challenge - "What would you do?"
F R
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Post by LS on Jun 11, 2007 14:48:30 GMT -5
Jupiter - You almost had me until the moving out part. It's always easier to run for cover than for the Council. You like Rich K? I do, too. But, have you ever taken his challenge - "What would you do?" F R FR, and others, You can't criticize someone for moving. Here's why? For many people, they have 2 prized possessions located in this town: (1) their house; and (2) their family. (Don't forget that many other people would move but don't have the resources or ability to simply pick up and leave. I would wager that is the case in most circumstances.) People move, right or wrong, because they perceive the town as having problems that cannot be changed in the near future. We can venture to guess that these perceived problems affect the quality of education and the value of their property. The cause of these are varied, but there is no magic formula for either. Running for town hall is not an option as most people that opt for moving (1) do not want to wait to see if their property value will go lower; and (2) do not want their children in what they see as sub-par educational system. What you propose is that they put the interest of their family aside in order to seek a benefit for the whole community. That is a risk that most people in flight do not feel that they have the luxury of having. The rats may leave the sinking ship fist, but for good reason. |
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Post by admin on Jun 14, 2007 5:01:11 GMT -5
And yet another interesting piece about the internet and sites like this one. It is almost as if Mr. Rosman read this thread. newstranscript.gmnews.com/news/2007/0613/Front_Page/077.htmlIn the News Connecting the world with fact and fiction Mark Rosman I love the Internet. No, wait a second, I hate the Internet. Oh, the heck with it. I can't make up my mind about the Internet. Is the Internet the best thing to happen to mankind; a way of joining the world together; linking nations and people, news and information? Or is the Internet the worst possible development ever to come out of a technogeek's mind; a window on the mind of every moron with a keyboard and a modem? For me the jury is still out, and depending on the day of the week I can go with the "best idea ever" or the "worst idea ever" answer. I read Internet message boards daily as part of my job as the managing editor of a newspaper to see if anything being posted on them bears some local examination by a reporter. Back in July 1982 when I started working as a reporter with the News Transcript, I could not have imagined the day when messages posted online would serve as the inspiration for a news story. It has happened, however, and that is amazing to me. The world has changed, and this newspaper has changed with it. Our articles are posted on our Internet Web site (www.gmnews.com) and read by people all over the country, if not the world. Within the past few weeks some of our staff writers and editors have started to record their columns on our Web site, so that people can download them as podcasts. I happen to enjoy recording my columns because it brings me back to my original work in communications - radio - and the feeling one gets from speaking directly to a listener. However, not all is happy in cyberspace. Reading some of the postings on message boards is like making one's way through a minefield of stupidity. Can't anyone who posts a message online spell correctly? Can't the dolts who post questions about the things that they have "heard" are going on in their town figure out they can get the answer to their questions by calling a local official or going to a public meeting and asking if what they "heard" is true? And if the brainiacs who post messages online are so certain they have all the answers and have the facts straight, why don't they use the real names of people they write about and state their accusations about these individuals straight up? Why is there all of this dancing around with initials and pet names and allusions to acts that people have allegedly committed? Oh, that's right, because even anonymous posters can be traced and held accountable for what they say. I have no problem with the new breed of Internet newshounds, but I would suggest that if they want to be taken seriously, they should adhere to the established guidelines that newspapers, radio and television have followed for years - that rumor and innuendo, and allegations with no basis in fact are not the way to shine a light on real improprieties. I find the Internet message boards full of coincidences, as well. For example, I had a telephone call from a public figure a few weeks ago who asked me why the News Transcript had not been sending a reporter to Newark every day to cover the federal trial of Frank Abate, the former executive director of the Western Monmouth Utilities Authority. He questioned my news judgment (said I had none) and told me a local daily newspaper found the trial to be newsworthy enough to send a reporter to Newark each day. No kidding! A daily newspaper covering daily news? Amazing. (For the record - we do not cover trials because I do not have a reporter I can pull off a regular beat to write just one story a week. The outcome of the Abate trial was reported in the News Transcript with information provided by the U.S. Attorney's Office). Here's the coincidence. Just a day or two after I received that phone call what message do I see on an Internet message board? You guessed right. A posting from an anonymous individual asking how come the News Transcript did not believe the Abate trial was newsworthy enough to send a reporter to cover and noting that the local daily newspaper did just that. Whoa, doctor! I can't prove who wrote that message board note, but I sure have my suspicions. I love the Internet, no, wait, I hate the Internet. Mark Rosman is the managing editor of the News Transcript.
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bergsteiger
Full Member
War is simple, direct, and ruthless
Posts: 1,189
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Post by bergsteiger on Jun 14, 2007 6:59:23 GMT -5
Brian, If you didn’t post that News Transcript editorial, I never would have read it. What a hack that paper is. The News Transcript will go the way of the dinosaur along with the rest of GM News. With so much Liberal Bias and Ideological slant the Transcript makes for a good litter box liner. The People site is more informative not to mention more entertaining then Mark Rosman’s blather will ever be. Hey Rosman, Next time you come to this site dancing around with a pet name trolling for ideas, from the looks of your mug shot, DickWithEars could be a fit for you.  |
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