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Post by LS on Jan 24, 2007 8:55:43 GMT -5
Calliope,
Didn't you know? 8% is good. (Of course, the source of this statement is the guy who was paid to create the survey.)
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Jan 24, 2007 9:20:58 GMT -5
Calliope, Didn't you know? 8% is good. (Of course, the source of this statement is the guy who was paid to create the survey.) Fact is, an 8% return rate on a marketing survey IS A GOOD response rate... DID YOU KNOW...the return rate for many of the rebates used by retailers have a return rate of less that 25%!!! Goole, check it out! Maybe the return rate would have been better if a coupon for Chickie Cheese was offered? The return rate was average ans within acceptable margins (especially for a what is now proven to be an apathetic community), now if you care to question the use of funds for the survey vs. for other more practical things needed in the district.....  ? SO here is a math problem... Survey @ $15,000 Response's Qty 239 Cost per response = $63.00 per response Response from Parents with kids in District schools.. Qty 76 Cost per response = $197.00 Net Return on Investment??? |
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Post by LS on Jan 24, 2007 9:28:26 GMT -5
SO here is a math problem... Survey @ $15,000 Response's Qty 239 Cost per response = $63.00 per response Response from Parents with kids in District schools.. Qty 76 Cost per response = $197.00 Net Return on Investment??? For answers we already knew... Priceless |
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Jan 24, 2007 9:30:35 GMT -5
"I would think that the rate of response would therefore be higher"
From FREEHOLD BORO FAMILY FUED...."2700 people surveyed about their school district....
The Number One top answer...
Survey saids.... APATHY 92%
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Post by Marc LeVine on Jan 24, 2007 9:35:14 GMT -5
Of course, 8% is excellent. Years ago, when the trade school (Union Technical Institute) I worked for sent our advertising mailers we were told to expect only a 2% return!
Sorry folks, I forgot...they were selling education, not trying to protect it.
But, the return is not the fault of the school board or the consultants they hired. It is the fault of the apathetic. I completed and mailed mine the same day it was received. Why? Because it was important to do so. Strike that. It was an obligation to do so!
Whatever happened to the Dormans, the Angillo-Bents, the Picarello's, the Rosens, the Barlems and all the other people that used to care about Education in this town? They represented better days in our schools.
OK, their kids grew up and the families moved away. But, no one replaced them...at least no one who has gotten involved as much as they all once did. So you ask, with regard to the survey, where are the parents of or current students?
So do we? You either have engaged parents in a top notch school district or you have disengaged students and educators in a dysfunctional school district. The Board of Education can only do so much. The community must support them and hold their educators to a higher standard.
Marc
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Post by LS on Jan 24, 2007 9:57:52 GMT -5
What was the goal of the survey? to try to tell them there were other more serious concerns apart from overcrowding, high taxes and the "value" of the education.
And to spend that much money to confirm what everyone knows, or in an attempt to get a different answer, is wasteful.
Look at the useless dribble from the "official" results:
"On a more positive note, Freehold residents value education overall and believe in maintaining property values." WOW!!!
How is this going to change how the school operates, or its plans for the future.
Give me a break!
p.s. 8% is not good. :-P
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Post by andrewd on Jan 24, 2007 11:48:59 GMT -5
Just so everyone knows...the survey did not cost the BOE $15,000...not even close to that.
Why did we conduct the survey? As I said on another thread, believe it or not, there are a number of members of the board who never want to mention illegal immigrants as an issue, and I am not going to get into the reasoning again here. This poll showed the whole board that it wasn't just the recent re-evaluation and property tax hikes that the community is concerned about.
8% by typical standards is good. 8% in this community is not apathetic, it's just plain pathetic. Again, as I stated elsewhere, there is no way anyone will be able to convince me that the people of this town are so busy, that they couldn't find a half hour on a weekend or some night during the week to fill out this survey. You didn't even have to pay for postage!!! In fact, I have to ask this of all of you who contribute to this site....who (aside from Marc Levine) took the time and filled out the survey? And then let me ask you, if the overwhelming majority of the registered voters in town do not care enough to take a half hour out of their lives, what are the school board, the town council, or any other governing body for that matter, supposed to do?
While I think this site is a very interesting site, and a great tool to discuss ideas...quite frankly, there aren't even enough people contributing to this site. How many contributors do we have on here? 30? 40?? Wake up folks!!! Advocacy groups like the Latino Alliance, while we love to demonize them and their members, are more organized, more motivated, and certainly more active in attaining their goals, and so they will continue to win time and time again.
Don't get me wrong, this site is a wonderful tool, and I commend Brian for his hard work in maintaining it and all those who continue to contribute to it...but the reality is that it is vastly under-utilized by the people in this town. Over 5,000 registered voters in town and how many do we see making some comments?? 8% would be a miraculous growth spurt on here.
Since I have said it in most of my other posts, why not again here...there is a town hall meeting tonight being held by Assemblywoman Jennifer Beck at the Hightstown High School, 25 Leshin Lane at 7pm tonight. I'll be there. I invite anyone to come down if for no other reason then to tell me to go stick it up my - you know what. At least get out there and make your voice heard.
Andrew DeFonzo
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Post by Marc LeVine on Jan 24, 2007 12:24:46 GMT -5
Andrew:
Don't think that the advocates aren't responsible for this, too. They made sure they demonized PEOPLE, early on, to prevent the kind of grassroots support the forum is capable of. That's right, they even mentioned PEOPLE in the lawsuit to scare anyone, who might have been thinking of swelling its ranks. You know - divide and conquer.
In reality, Freehold Borough has a Town Council and a Board of Education to represent the residents. However, I founded PEOPLE to help make our residents more civic minded. Folks need a place to go to discuss civic matters among themselves and hash out thoughts before they bring them, to the governing bodies.
The people on this board are those, who seem to care most. But, there is a larger population out there who still don't know about the forum. Brian - why not get flyers out into the community and remind the residents that PEOPLE is about their home agendas, not the advocates or anyone else's. And, it's about much more than illegal immigration.
Remind everyone of how many great ideas have spring from this board. Let them know how many new leaders have come forward from this forum to serve on town committees (sorry, I can't mention their real names). Advise them that the Council and Board of Education monitor and contribute to this forum - ALL THE TIME. This is a good thing!
Brian, you and I set the table...now you need to invite more guests. Once upon a time there was this little, unknown group called, "The Sons of Liberty..." They made a little noise and birthed a nation. We're all just looking to save a great little town.
Marc
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Post by fedup on Jan 24, 2007 12:28:48 GMT -5
J In fact, I have to ask this of all of you who contribute to this site....who (aside from Marc Levine) took the time and filled out the survey? Ours was both filled out and mailed back out on the day it arrived. |
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Post by Marc LeVine on Jan 24, 2007 12:48:48 GMT -5
What planet are these people living on...err...what town on that planet? These people need to be voted off, immediately. If they want to be so "advocately"correct, they should go join the Peace Corp. and not represent a small town with strained resources.
True, I am sympathetic to illegal immigrants, but would never support anything that their illegal status does to harm our community or our taxpayers. Yes, I want to outreach them, and I am trying to do so, but for me it's all about TOUGH LOVE.
I want legal compliance to be the first step to their eventual legal residency. If they won't be humble, respectful and compliant with ALL our laws then we've proved the case that they do not care or belong here. This being the case, they are not worthy of EVER being granted legal status and especially, not citizenship.
The advocates will tell us that these people don't owe us anything and do not have to toe the mark or be humble. I beg to differ and believe they must go above and beyond proving to us all that they are good enough to someday be Americans. Most of these people come from failed third world societies. If they want to succeed here, they need to understand what made America great (at least, before Bush). They ran away from their own countries instead of staying home to fight for their own heritages.
Our illegal immigrants need to read a little more American History and follow OUR lead, not drag us down. In the meantime, they need to make themselves a bit more welcome by not imposing on us, their hosts.
I was watching "Cinderella Man" yesterday, and was impressed when James Braddock returned all the welfare money he was given before he returned to fighting. He realized that other people needed the help more than he did. This is what it means to be an American!
Marc
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leelye
Junior Member
Posts: 150
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Post by leelye on Jan 24, 2007 13:54:27 GMT -5
Andrew:
I did attend Monday's BOE meeting and also had filled out the survey and returned it immediately. I left after the public portion of the survey was over, my other half was struggling to keep his eyes open. Next time I'll leave him home.
Marc:
Why doesn't the Borough put the PEOPLE sight as one of the links when you go to the Borough website or would that be a conflict of interest? Or perhaps Carl Beams could post a link on his freehold.com website for this forum.
Marc when my son went through the elementary school system in the borough, I was one of a handful of parents that showed up twice a year for every single parent teacher conference along with some of the names you mentioned in a previous post. For 9 years, from K-8 it was always the same parents who took an active interest in their children's education and wanted to know of their progress in school. Granted, I did not attend a BOE meeting until this past Monday. My son has been out of the elementary schools for 6 years now.
Leelye
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Post by Marc LeVine on Jan 24, 2007 15:16:31 GMT -5
Better off if we keep a PEOPLE link off the Borough Web site. Freehold.com would be OK. but how many really go there?
The site needs to be talked up around town (a table at Kruise nights and other town events) and flyers should be dropped off around town and at residents homes.
It would also be great if the schools would allow the flyer to be sent home in student packets.
Articles in the NT and APP would attract some attention, too.
All or most those names I mentioned - add Jim Kenny, too - became board of education members having started out in the PTO. You are right, it was a solid handful of parents - but very demanding ones that seem to have made a difference at the time. But, I suppose these were different times that didn't include having to deal with as many illegal immigrant's children. Resources were more plentiful back then and the kids seemed to be more driven, by these parents, to excel in preparation for High School, college prep academics.
We need more parents like the ones I mentioned to come to our town and take a more active role in their children's education.
Marc
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Post by Guest on Jan 24, 2007 16:32:53 GMT -5
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Post by admin on Jan 24, 2007 18:27:06 GMT -5
For the record. Out of the twenty or twenty five people in attendance at the BOE meeting, at least six that I know of are PEOPLE supporters. One of which is a new person interested in helping.
And Marc, PEOPLE will be getting the name out again, which will help advertise this site. We had our first steering committee meeting in quite a while this past week and there were a multitude of excellent ideas, covering many topics, that we hope to push for throughout our town.
In advertising this site, the best thing right now is word of mouth. That is helping and every month we do get more and more people. the key is to keep the word here in Freehold. We do not want any more trolls from Farmington Long Island, or what ever that towns name is.
One last bit of info. I finally set up the email for this site. Any person who wishes to contact me, may do so at the following
brian@people-fb.com
I posted this for the benefit of those guests who do not have access to the PM feature of this site, or who do not already have my regular email.
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Jan 24, 2007 20:07:10 GMT -5
"It would also be great if the schools would allow the flyer to be sent home in student packets."
Flyers went home in the school bags about about the latino alliance!!!
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Post by fiberisgood4you on Jan 24, 2007 21:50:53 GMT -5
"the survey did not cost the BOE $15,000...not even close to that"
Opps, then my apologies! Thought that was the number published in the transcript a few months back. my mistake!
I stand to be corrected!!! So how much did "We The People" spend?
In fact, the amount is not whats important (unless y'all gave zander lots of $10K's).
Just to offer some ironic T&C, ....we poled the public about public apathy, to substantiate that there is an apathetic public, made evident through an apathetic responce!....huuaaa, follow me?
LAZY FIGFY
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Post by andrewd on Jan 30, 2007 21:09:34 GMT -5
Andrew: Don't think that the advocates aren't responsible for this, too. They made sure they demonized PEOPLE, early on, to prevent the kind of grassroots support the forum is capable of. That's right, they even mentioned PEOPLE in the lawsuit to scare anyone, who might have been thinking of swelling its ranks. You know - divide and conquer. Marc, First of all, I have to apologize, I haven't been on here in a little bit, so I am responding to this a little late. Your quote above, in my eyes, is just another solid sign of the apathy in town. In fact, I hate using that word, apathy, because I don't think it's a strong enough word for the lack of community involvement in a town that has so many different and powerful issues, positive and negative, that need to be addressed. I don't want to speak for my father (who undoubtedly was the complete opposite of apathetic), but this was one of the things he warned me about when I decided to get more involved in town and run for the school board. As I started to climb onto my soapbox and preach to him about how I was going to get people involved in the schools and make people care, he would smile (even chuckle a bit) and tell me that these were great ideas, but they'd more than likely never work. "They just don't care" he would tell me. I refused to believe him, and a part of me still does...but in just my 8+ months on the BOE, I have witnessed an election, a survey and countless meetings that are just ignored by the overwhelming majority of people in this town. There is still hope, both in me and my father (despite the fact that he has left the town for the more temperate climate of Florida). The trick, as we all know, is finding that stimulous...that item that will get people off their butts and into the fight. "If you care about something, you find the time for it" I seem to recall that coming from him at some point or another (along with "quit complaining...get off your a$$ and do something!"). I guess that's why we keep up the fight...for hopes that someday, the rest of the town will wake up and join in. And to everyone else who takes a peek at this or any of my other postings...no one is telling you to agree with me...but at least show up and be heard. Heck...I would even try deliberately aggravating people so they would come and yell at me...just so long as they show up. Andrew DeFonzo |
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Post by Marc LeVine on Jan 31, 2007 10:40:57 GMT -5
Andrew:
YOUR FATHER GAVE A d**n! But, like others, he left us. And, he deserves to enjoy his retirement!
Fortunately, you replaced Pete D. (by giving a d**n). Many others, who have also left us, haven't been replaced by other people with like minds. And, that is our greatest dilemma, I fear.
We need for people to have a stake in this community. We "old-timers" do. A few newcomers also have a similar caring for this town, but that number seems disproportionate to the numbers we have lost. And, like your dad, not all have left for the wrong reasons. People get older and their priorities change. It's just that, years ago, their children returned to the community. In 21st Century America, people are more mobile and younger people seek fame and fortune far away from their roots. That's just the way it is.
Our task is almost to create a new Freehold Borough. We can't hold onto the past, but we can adapt to the future, by making our town desirable to new people...young families...a new and brighter future. We cannot allow anyone to make us an outhouse for the wealthier communities in Western Monmouth County. We must rescue the schools; market them well; keep property values high; and create an en vogue appeal for the Borough.
It is so clear what we mus do...but it is difficult. Difficult dos no mean impossible. And, failure is just not an option. I think you and I, both, understand this. So...let's have at it!!!
Marc
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Post by Marc LeVine on Jan 31, 2007 10:44:57 GMT -5
Sorry, my keypad types in broken english! Maybe the advocates have sabotaged it!!!
Should read....
It is so clear what we must do...but it is difficult. Difficult does not mean impossible. And, failure is just not an option. I think you and I, both, understand this. So...let's have at it!!!
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Post by Phyllis on Feb 1, 2007 6:26:07 GMT -5
"But he left us."
More accurate to say his wife left you. I was the impetus behind the move, having given it all my all to try to relate in Freehold Borough.
For some reason, Marc, I always felt like the odd person out, and, having grown up in the heart of Manhattan, this is still totally foreign to me. Though I volunteered and was active in the schools and got to know a lot of people, I never felt acceptance. Starting with my block alone, we had more pool parties than you can shake a stick at, both for kids and adults. Yet I can count on one hand the number of times I've been to any neighbor's house on that block. This is over the course of 18 years.
Indeed, I was conspicuously omitted from many social events. As an example, after attending a PTO board meeting, of which I was a board member for a number of years, I later discovered that there was a social get-together planned with this group where I was the only one not included. I found out by being mistakenly copied on an email in this regard. I actually asked the PTO folks about this. Some lame excuse was tendered by a particular person who shall remain nameless -- to which my reaction was, I can only hope I don't look as stupid as these people think I am.
I was very disappointed in the diversity that's constantly touted. Again, growing up in New York, we had people of all shapes, sizes, colors and creeds. Yet there was very little interaction in FB among the adults that I could see. Again, many different religions and backgrounds exist on my block alone, yet no exchange of cultures ever took place, no invites for different holidays or traditions.
For whose who have fond a niche in FB, great. I know it's got a great history and there are many generations there. Many folks like yourself do a lot of good work. I will say, however, there are way too many egos in that small little town where there definitely shouldn't be. I think these egos get in the way of many other things that are truly important in life.
I am fortunate enough to be in a profession where I can live anywhere in the country, and finally decided that I had tired and tried and tried, but to no avail. I was not happy with the level of interaction, and decided that life is too short. I have so much more to bring to the table, and am now getting involved where it's 70 degrees in January.
Thank you for your support of Pete. Yes, indeed, FB unfortunately lost a very decent man.
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Post by Marc LeVine on Feb 1, 2007 9:30:12 GMT -5
Wow! Very interesting perspective on the town. Thank you for sharing this with us. It's very personal.
Of course, Betsy shares your NYC heritage. She, coming from Jackson Heights, Queens. I'm not sure that she can identify with the community "isolation" you experienced. She considers the Borough very much like her former home - diverse, middle-class and friendly. I could see that when I visited Jackson Heights in the 70's. Betsy feels very comfortable in Freehold Borough.
Then again, Betsy and and I have so many close friends that live outside of the Borough that we have never had the time to expand our social life, very much, within the town. This is not to say that we do not have nor have had some close relationships with our neighbors - we have, indeed. It's just that we have never felt the need for Freehold Borough to become our primary source of social relationships. There just aren't enough hours in the day, anyway.
Your message, here, is still a very important one for those visiting this site. Perhaps, people living here need to consider their openness and inclusiveness toward others. I always try and consider the feelings of others in all my actions. We should all be doing this to avoid hurting others. I'm sure that no one was going out of their way to hurt you. Sometimes, people just forget to think about the needs and feelings of others.
Freehold Borough obviously lost TWO very nice people to Florida.
Marc
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Post by richardkelsey on Feb 1, 2007 11:15:51 GMT -5
Just so everyone knows...the survey did not cost the BOE $15,000...not even close to that. Why did we conduct the survey? As I said on another thread, believe it or not, there are a number of members of the board who never want to mention illegal immigrants as an issue, and I am not going to get into the reasoning again here. This poll showed the whole board that it wasn't just the recent re-evaluation and property tax hikes that the community is concerned about. 8% by typical standards is good. 8% in this community is not apathetic, it's just plain pathetic. Again, as I stated elsewhere, there is no way anyone will be able to convince me that the people of this town are so busy, that they couldn't find a half hour on a weekend or some night during the week to fill out this survey. You didn't even have to pay for postage!!! In fact, I have to ask this of all of you who contribute to this site....who (aside from Marc Levine) took the time and filled out the survey? And then let me ask you, if the overwhelming majority of the registered voters in town do not care enough to take a half hour out of their lives, what are the school board, the town council, or any other governing body for that matter, supposed to do? While I think this site is a very interesting site, and a great tool to discuss ideas...quite frankly, there aren't even enough people contributing to this site. How many contributors do we have on here? 30? 40?? Wake up folks!!! Advocacy groups like the Latino Alliance, while we love to demonize them and their members, are more organized, more motivated, and certainly more active in attaining their goals, and so they will continue to win time and time again. Don't get me wrong, this site is a wonderful tool, and I commend Brian for his hard work in maintaining it and all those who continue to contribute to it...but the reality is that it is vastly under-utilized by the people in this town. Over 5,000 registered voters in town and how many do we see making some comments?? 8% would be a miraculous growth spurt on here. Since I have said it in most of my other posts, why not again here...there is a town hall meeting tonight being held by Assemblywoman Jennifer Beck at the Hightstown High School, 25 Leshin Lane at 7pm tonight. I'll be there. I invite anyone to come down if for no other reason then to tell me to go stick it up my - you know what. At least get out there and make your voice heard. Andrew DeFonzo I will say -- apathy does abound. This site is an example. My community has a community site. (we have about 2000 homes in our community.) On a given day -- about 100-125 people participate on the site. More interesting -- there is an alternative site. That's right -- community members who did not like the community run site -- started their own. That site boasts over a 1,000 members, and routinely sees dozens of threads each day -- many with 50-100 comments per thread. None of which deal with the types of issues Freehold has. The reasons for this are many -- age, demographics, occupations, etc. My guess is the biggest reason is home ownership and investment in the community. The owners are all overwhelmingly in the 28-45 age range. Active professionals who looked for a place to live and after reviewing many communities, chose ours. So they are invested int he community -- or computer age -- and committed to it. As I posted on my apathy thread -- Freehold has the opposite. It's invested citizens are leaving. Many who are not leaving are much older -- and less likely for those reasons to pick up the fight -- certainly online. Still -- more obvious, the new residents are not invested. They are renters. Many -- not some as the APP claims -- are here illegally, and they feel no attachment to or investment in the community. I certainly am not knocking this site -- it is critically important to those who have chosen to make a stand. Seriously though, the evidence of the community killing cancer -- apathy -- abounds in both the survey and the lack of real action. As people continue to study the problem, the town continues to drain out it's long term residents. With respect to the BOE -- if you have a single member of that Board who believes illegal immigration is not the central driving problem in the town -- and cost center for the school -- the individual is incompetent and ought not serve -- Period. It is one thing to say you are powerless -- which is a defeatist attitude -- it is another to deny the origin of the problem. Some of us saw that problem 11 years ago. That's right -- 11 years ago I served on the Citizens Advisory Committee to study the growing school population. I identified the problem there 11 years ago. I spoke up and talked about it -- and some people thought I was crazy then. In the mandate of the state -- which had eliminated any local control -- we were forced to conclude that expansion was the only option at that time. Unfortunately -- not even I could ever have imagined that what we saw was only a precursor to the massive influx of illegal aliens and the unprecedented growth of school age kids -- in a town with no large tracks of undeveloped land. Anyway -- I digress. 8 percent is "an acceptable sample" size if one is doing a poll. That is true. Those numbers give a high degree of accuracy if extrapolated out across the population. Of course, having only 8% participation rate might make a good sample -- but it is not a good indicator of community engagement. It is quite the opposite. The fact that fewer homes with school age children participated is consistent with my earlier thread suggesting that many current parents have no attachment. After this entire fire drill -- the state will mandate the expenditure any way -- spitting in the voters' eyes. |
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Post by Marc LeVine on Feb 1, 2007 11:39:44 GMT -5
In retrospect, it might have been much better to take the town's voter registration lists and conduct this as a phone survey. Not only would similar data have been received, but the "flavor" of the comments could also have been ascertained. A few CANDID reactions would tell alot more about public sentiment.
Actually, it might still be a worthwhile exercise to build onto the results from the mailing.
Marc
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Post by Marc LeVine on Feb 1, 2007 12:29:20 GMT -5
This is why I have posted, in past threads, that Freehold Borough will need to remake itself for the 21st century.
If we succeed in reducing rentals in the community (there are some early signs that this may be happening), homeowners will have to replace them. And... they will have to be people, who prefer our semi-urban lifestyle and who are also interested in living in our older homes. ...Not just our more desirable "Victorians," but also those showing interest in our more nondescript, older homes (like mine) on streets like Barkalow, Institute, Wayne and Kiawah.
Freehold Borough's early to mid 20th century homes often require modern upgrades and repairs, of which the cost of doing so, is usually out of reach of the "starter home" set. And, that particular crowd is often less interested in living in an "entry level" community for the long haul.
Getting the train here will help us attract more of the North Jersey-New York City working class. But, this can be several more years down the road, if ever, at all. And, there isn't a heck of alot of professional jobs left in the area to make Freehold a place for those kind of people to live. We've recently lost Bell Labs and we're soon to lose Fort Monmouth with all of its high tech contractors. The effects of these two losses are surely being felt in FB, already.
Until we fix our schools and curtail the illegal immigration influx, it will be difficult to draw in 25-40 year olds, still raising pre-teens.
Perhaps, we should be attracting more of the 40-60 year old demographic. These people have already raised their children and come from an era that has taught them to treasure our older homes. While they are still at the height of their earning potential, empty nest syndrome encourages them to downsize, (some) without giving consideration to 55 and over communities. At least, not yet.
Once again, the gay demographic is one that should be looked upon as a good match for a new Freehold Borough. They are re-birthing Asbury Park and have done wonders in Ocean Grove, New Hope (PA) and Lambertville. Better upkeep of homes and business district investments make them a good population to cultivate. And, they don't impact on the schools!
Of course, hanging onto our existing residents; senior citzen homeowners and our heritage families is also VERY important to keep the community's sense of community and its history, intact.
We have to start thinking about strategically marketing Freehold Borough to those, who are most likely to want to live here and help improve our town. I am hoping that we soon begin to advance the town's PR and outreach to Realtors and to the general population through several media channels (I have such a proposal on the table for the next council workshop). Now, is the time to plan for the future of Freehold Borough. Because the future is happening in FB, right now. We can't afford to miss it.
We can either create a (bit) more upscale Freehold Borough for the successful to live in. Or, we can let the illegal immigrants create a poor town that mainly services their needs and invites even more of them to come here.
Marc
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Post by admin on Feb 1, 2007 17:06:53 GMT -5
Just so everyone knows...the survey did not cost the BOE $15,000...not even close to that. Why did we conduct the survey? As I said on another thread, believe it or not, there are a number of members of the board who never want to mention illegal immigrants as an issue, and I am not going to get into the reasoning again here. This poll showed the whole board that it wasn't just the recent re-evaluation and property tax hikes that the community is concerned about. 8% by typical standards is good. 8% in this community is not apathetic, it's just plain pathetic. Again, as I stated elsewhere, there is no way anyone will be able to convince me that the people of this town are so busy, that they couldn't find a half hour on a weekend or some night during the week to fill out this survey. You didn't even have to pay for postage!!! In fact, I have to ask this of all of you who contribute to this site....who (aside from Marc Levine) took the time and filled out the survey? And then let me ask you, if the overwhelming majority of the registered voters in town do not care enough to take a half hour out of their lives, what are the school board, the town council, or any other governing body for that matter, supposed to do? While I think this site is a very interesting site, and a great tool to discuss ideas...quite frankly, there aren't even enough people contributing to this site. How many contributors do we have on here? 30? 40?? Wake up folks!!! Advocacy groups like the Latino Alliance, while we love to demonize them and their members, are more organized, more motivated, and certainly more active in attaining their goals, and so they will continue to win time and time again. Don't get me wrong, this site is a wonderful tool, and I commend Brian for his hard work in maintaining it and all those who continue to contribute to it...but the reality is that it is vastly under-utilized by the people in this town. Over 5,000 registered voters in town and how many do we see making some comments?? 8% would be a miraculous growth spurt on here. Since I have said it in most of my other posts, why not again here...there is a town hall meeting tonight being held by Assemblywoman Jennifer Beck at the Hightstown High School, 25 Leshin Lane at 7pm tonight. I'll be there. I invite anyone to come down if for no other reason then to tell me to go stick it up my - you know what. At least get out there and make your voice heard. Andrew DeFonzo I will say -- apathy does abound. This site is an example. My community has a community site. (we have about 2000 homes in our community.) On a given day -- about 100-125 people participate on the site. More interesting -- there is an alternative site. That's right -- community members who did not like the community run site -- started their own. That site boasts over a 1,000 members, and routinely sees dozens of threads each day -- many with 50-100 comments per thread. None of which deal with the types of issues Freehold has. The reasons for this are many -- age, demographics, occupations, etc. My guess is the biggest reason is home ownership and investment in the community. The owners are all overwhelmingly in the 28-45 age range. Active professionals who looked for a place to live and after reviewing many communities, chose ours. So they are invested int he community -- or computer age -- and committed to it. As I posted on my apathy thread -- Freehold has the opposite. It's invested citizens are leaving. Many who are not leaving are much older -- and less likely for those reasons to pick up the fight -- certainly on line. Still -- more obvious, the new residents are not invested. They are renters. Many -- not some as the APP claims -- are here illegally, and they feel no attachment to or investment in the community. I certainly am not knocking this site -- it is critically important to those who have chosen to make a stand. Seriously though, the evidence of the community killing cancer -- apathy -- abounds in both the survey and the lack of real action. As people continue to study the problem, the town continues to drain out it's long term residents. With respect to the BOE -- if you have a single member of that Board who believes illegal immigration is not the central driving problem in the town -- and cost center for the school -- the individual is incompetent and ought not serve -- Period. It is one thing to say you are powerless -- which is a defeatist attitude -- it is another to deny the origin of the problem. Some of us saw that problem 11 years ago. That's right -- 11 years ago I served on the Citizens Advisory Committee to study the growing school population. I identified the problem there 11 years ago. I spoke up and talked about it -- and some people thought I was crazy then. In the mandate of the state -- which had eliminated any local control -- we were forced to conclude that expansion was the only option at that time. Unfortunately -- not even I could ever have imagined that what we saw was only a precursor to the massive influx of illegal aliens and the unprecedented growth of school age kids -- in a town with no large tracks of undeveloped land. Anyway -- I digress. 8 percent is "an acceptable sample" size if one is doing a poll. That is true. Those numbers give a high degree of accuracy if extrapolated out across the population. Of course, having only 8% participation rate might make a good sample -- but it is not a good indicator of community engagement. It is quite the opposite. The fact that fewer homes with school age children participated is consistent with my earlier thread suggesting that many current parents have no attachment. After this entire fire drill -- the state will mandate the expenditure any way -- spitting in the voters' eyes. Richard, I have to address your statements on apathy and this board. Please do not let this board be an indicator of what is still in our town. The participation is what it is due to decisions that I am responsible for. Intentionally, I have not advertised this site. I have counted on word of mouth to gain interest. The reason is purely for the purpose of keeping this a Freehold site above all else. The result is that the site has grown slowly, but surely. And of course it is great to have former Freehold residents like you and Pete and Phillis Defonzo checking in and writing. On the plus side, this site has generated ideas and helped get a few more people involved in this town. The momentum is there, it is just slow. Again, if this site appears slow, the blame is mine. My desire is quality over quantity. |
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Post by Phyllis on Feb 2, 2007 8:49:12 GMT -5
Thank you, Marc, for your very kind words.
Phyllis
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Post by Marc LeVine on Feb 2, 2007 10:30:55 GMT -5
Yes, Brian... thanks to you, the Freehold Voice is becoming our own version of RADIO FREE EUROPE for our former "lost souls" in Virginia, Florida and other non-Freehold Borough locations. Where else can they go to get the latest news about their former home town? It's like having Bob Hope and Brooke Shields visiting Guam on Christmas Day, all over again!!!
I wonder if former Freehold Borough residents living in even more remote places like Freehold Township are being reached by your "wave length." Laz???
Marc
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Post by richardkelsey on Feb 2, 2007 10:35:07 GMT -5
I will say -- apathy does abound. This site is an example. My community has a community site. (we have about 2000 homes in our community.) On a given day -- about 100-125 people participate on the site. More interesting -- there is an alternative site. That's right -- community members who did not like the community run site -- started their own. That site boasts over a 1,000 members, and routinely sees dozens of threads each day -- many with 50-100 comments per thread. None of which deal with the types of issues Freehold has. The reasons for this are many -- age, demographics, occupations, etc. My guess is the biggest reason is home ownership and investment in the community. The owners are all overwhelmingly in the 28-45 age range. Active professionals who looked for a place to live and after reviewing many communities, chose ours. So they are invested int he community -- or computer age -- and committed to it. As I posted on my apathy thread -- Freehold has the opposite. It's invested citizens are leaving. Many who are not leaving are much older -- and less likely for those reasons to pick up the fight -- certainly on line. Still -- more obvious, the new residents are not invested. They are renters. Many -- not some as the APP claims -- are here illegally, and they feel no attachment to or investment in the community. I certainly am not knocking this site -- it is critically important to those who have chosen to make a stand. Seriously though, the evidence of the community killing cancer -- apathy -- abounds in both the survey and the lack of real action. As people continue to study the problem, the town continues to drain out it's long term residents. With respect to the BOE -- if you have a single member of that Board who believes illegal immigration is not the central driving problem in the town -- and cost center for the school -- the individual is incompetent and ought not serve -- Period. It is one thing to say you are powerless -- which is a defeatist attitude -- it is another to deny the origin of the problem. Some of us saw that problem 11 years ago. That's right -- 11 years ago I served on the Citizens Advisory Committee to study the growing school population. I identified the problem there 11 years ago. I spoke up and talked about it -- and some people thought I was crazy then. In the mandate of the state -- which had eliminated any local control -- we were forced to conclude that expansion was the only option at that time. Unfortunately -- not even I could ever have imagined that what we saw was only a precursor to the massive influx of illegal aliens and the unprecedented growth of school age kids -- in a town with no large tracks of undeveloped land. Anyway -- I digress. 8 percent is "an acceptable sample" size if one is doing a poll. That is true. Those numbers give a high degree of accuracy if extrapolated out across the population. Of course, having only 8% participation rate might make a good sample -- but it is not a good indicator of community engagement. It is quite the opposite. The fact that fewer homes with school age children participated is consistent with my earlier thread suggesting that many current parents have no attachment. After this entire fire drill -- the state will mandate the expenditure any way -- spitting in the voters' eyes. Richard, I have to address your statements on apathy and this board. Please do not let this board be an indicator of what is still in our town. The participation is what it is due to decisions that I am responsible for. Intentionally, I have not advertised this site. I have counted on word of mouth to gain interest. The reason is purely for the purpose of keeping this a Freehold site above all else. The result is that the site has grown slowly, but surely. And of course it is great to have former Freehold residents like you and Pete and Phillis Defonzo checking in and writing. On the plus side, this site has generated ideas and helped get a few more people involved in this town. The momentum is there, it is just slow. Again, if this site appears slow, the blame is mine. My desire is quality over quantity. You folks on this site are literally the front line. I am enormously proud of your efforts, contributions, and desire to effect change. Keep up the good work. |
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