|
|
Post by concerned on Feb 8, 2008 17:10:33 GMT -5
How come this committe is so eager to stand up for everyone except for a police officer that has been nothing but exemplary to this town? Stand up for what's right and not politically convenient. Your failure to stand up is a disgrace and this committee is a farce.
|
|
bergsteiger
Full Member
War is simple, direct, and ruthless
Posts: 1,189
|
Post by bergsteiger on Feb 8, 2008 18:15:40 GMT -5
I second that motion
|
|
|
|
Post by richardkelsey on Feb 10, 2008 16:38:49 GMT -5
So you would want a government committee to take a position on the police brutality case BEFORE the Monmouth County Prosecutor has concluded his investigation.? I agree. As I stated earlier -- everyone ought to wait until the conclusion of the investigation. |
|
|
|
Post by concerned on Feb 10, 2008 21:33:18 GMT -5
if you were at the last meeting then it would be clar that they have already taken their position.
|
|
|
|
Post by Libyan Sibyl on Feb 11, 2008 10:21:08 GMT -5
Was Lisa's post a question from a post on a separate thread? Someone else used to do that all the time...
I assume that Lisa was replying to the post about the HR Committee? I did not see anyone asking teh HR COmmittee for a comment on an investigation or asking for them to determine the truth or veracity of that allegation, but rather the post was to see if the HR was consulted before the protests and complaints. I think the post was whether the committee on race relations had been consulted and if they did anything to ease tensions.
If they were not consulted, why have a committee that is bypassed every single time it is "needed"? That is not a knock on the committee, it is just a realization that people don't want to go to that committee and would rather take their problems elsewhere...
If Lisa's post was about the town council, well, I don't know if you have their position. You have the mayor saying let's see, and you have someone else condemning the police (at least, there was a good quote in the paper that makes it look like that councilperson was supporting the family and not the police).
|
|
|
|
Post by admin on Feb 11, 2008 13:37:18 GMT -5
I agree with Libby Sibby. The HRC should be involved but not in any investigatory way. They should do so with two goals in mind, to ensure transparency where it can be applied, and for that committee to take a neutral approach.
Beyond being a government board, they are all regular citizens who could use their appointments to gain community trust.
I also think they should start a big community campaign on educating people how to conduct themselves when being confronted by the police. Soooo many people do stupid things when just such confrontations occur, ultimately causing themselves more trouble that needed.
|
|
bergsteiger
Full Member
War is simple, direct, and ruthless
Posts: 1,189
|
Post by bergsteiger on Feb 11, 2008 17:59:28 GMT -5
I also think they should start a big community campaign on educating people how to conduct themselves when being confronted by the police. Soooo many people do stupid things when just such confrontations occur, ultimately causing themselves more trouble that needed. If 33-year-old Migdalia Irizzary doesn't know how to act during a routine traffic stop by now, it just may be to late for her to learn. |
|
|
|
Post by admin on Feb 12, 2008 13:37:36 GMT -5
The Bersteiger fan club grows! ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by novillero on Feb 13, 2008 7:29:25 GMT -5
It's in today's news. The group did first meet with the HRC, but apparently that didn't stop them from marching. The quotes in the paper from the march leader do not, in my opinion, make the kid sympathetic.
|
|
|
|
Post by concerned on Feb 29, 2008 16:08:59 GMT -5
The problem is that this committee had no interest in the truth, it was nothing more than an attack on the officer involved. Worse than that was the fact that these idiots from the rally were allowed any time in that meeting at all, why not wait till the facts and investigation are complete before you take a stand? Answer; they only care about making everything racial and keeping themselves in the paper. Delacy Davis? You have to be kidding!He tried this same non sense in 2001 in the borough and all involved were found not guilty on all charges! His apology for his and his groups defaming statements never came!Guess he figures he may improve to 50% success this time around.
|
|
|
|
Post by richardkelsey on Mar 1, 2008 17:36:01 GMT -5
The problem is that this committee had no interest in the truth, it was nothing more than an attack on the officer involved. Worse than that was the fact that these idiots from the rally were allowed any time in that meeting at all, why not wait till the facts and investigation are complete before you take a stand? Answer; they only care about making everything racial and keeping themselves in the paper. Delacy Davis? You have to be kidding!He tried this same non sense in 2001 in the borough and all involved were found not guilty on all charges! His apology for his and his groups defaming statements never came!Guess he figures he may improve to 50% success this time around. It may be an odd quirk of NJ sunshine laws, with which I am not familiar. But I can tell you that in Virginia, you might have the right to come to an open meeting as an out-of-towner, but you have no right to speak at such meetings. I have to assume that the Borough is powerless to stop this -- otherwise I cannot figure out why they let any of htese out-of-towners speak at Borough Government meetings. |
|
|
|
Post by admin on Mar 1, 2008 19:02:20 GMT -5
The problem is that this committee had no interest in the truth, it was nothing more than an attack on the officer involved. Worse than that was the fact that these idiots from the rally were allowed any time in that meeting at all, why not wait till the facts and investigation are complete before you take a stand? Answer; they only care about making everything racial and keeping themselves in the paper. Delacy Davis? You have to be kidding!He tried this same non sense in 2001 in the borough and all involved were found not guilty on all charges! His apology for his and his groups defaming statements never came!Guess he figures he may improve to 50% success this time around. Concerned, I meant to get back to your post sooner. It appears that you have a very strong opinion of the HRC. Why do you feel and believe as you do? I only sat on that committee for a short period of time, but most, if not all of them, were level headed people. Reverend Parrish, the committee chair, is a level headed person. When I saw similar topics come up, he was fair minded about things. That is all we can ask from anyone. Why do you think the committee is not interested in the truth? I believe this committee should be involved and taking a community lead on this with all interests in mind. As far as Delacy Davis, he appeared on the scene way too quick, IMO, which makes me suspect of his motives and the best interest of our town. Maybe I will be wrong in that opinion, but time will tell. |
|
|
|
Post by richardkelsey on Mar 2, 2008 7:12:47 GMT -5
Richard Kelsey- I THINK THEY CALL IT FREEDOM OF SPEECH! Ahhh -- Hello -- I am a lawyer. I don't just play one on a posting board. Believe me, I undersatand "Freedom of Speech" much better than do you. Most people don't realize that the most protected speech -- political speech -- is subject to regulation -- including time, manner and place restrictions. The only point of my post was -- numerous jurisdictions properly and legally restrict out of jurisdiction residents from using public speaking times on matters in other jurisdictions. That is a proper Constitutional restriction. My only question dealt with why Freehold Borough does not do this. I suspect that NJ's sunshine laws may prevent that -- but I don't know them well enough to opine. If New Jersey's laws do not prevent the Borough from restricting public comment to Borough residents -- then its very able counsel ought to consider implementing such a policy. That would stop the Borough council and committee meetings from being used by outside agitators to generate press. |
|
|
|
Post by admin on Mar 2, 2008 17:18:48 GMT -5
Since the subject of rights has come up, I am reminded of something I always keep in mind. Just because somebody is within their rights, does not make them right.
|
|
|
|
Post by admin on Mar 2, 2008 17:21:14 GMT -5
On the subject of Delacy..
I wonder if the mayor, LeVine, Shutzer, Simms and Sue Sweetman are going to write the News Transcript and chastise Delacy the same way they did Rich. Or do they just stand up to some people?
|
|
|
|
Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Mar 2, 2008 17:44:30 GMT -5
the alturnitive...
there is a group of malcontent folks capable of becoming very loud very fast and develop a sympathetic ear from the press with a sensationalized story that may, or may not grow legs.
Lets deny these "Agitators" the opportunity for them to blow off steam during the council meeting.
Denial would mean a "clash" of visions for down town development, with De lacy, Rev Al, Jessie Jr., and company alternating weeks in the Freehold Borough.
Pick you poison? You want your misery fast or slow? I say fast and get it done with so we can move on.
To be honest, If I was Rev Parish, why should I sit in the hot seat on this one, I'll work the clean up, form a citizen review board, what have you, nut I'd insist that Mike and Mitch take the first round of anger, thats when the flames are the hottest, at ignition.
|
|
adefonzo
Junior Member
If I can see further than some, it's because I have stood on the shoulders of giants
Posts: 308
|
Post by adefonzo on Mar 3, 2008 10:20:44 GMT -5
Richard Kelsey- I THINK THEY CALL IT FREEDOM OF SPEECH! it never ceases to amaze me how people think this phrase applies to whatever anyone wants to say or do. A little bit of study will show that there are numerous situations where you absolutely do not have "freedom of speech". I don't mean to pin this solely on you...I am just making a general comment on the idea. Although the focus has been on DeLacy Davis, the number of people who spoke at the council meeting was in the low teens and half of those were either residents or former residents of the Boro. You would have had complaints about the police, no matter what you did. I am not sure that limiting debate will yield what we are all after, which is the truth. When the truth, regardless of what that is, comes out, we all will have to accept it, make changes if necessary and move on. I have to comment on this one idea in your post... One of the biggest problems I see in today's society is that people get convicted in the court of public opinion before the "truth" is allowed to come out. And if the "truth" contradicts what the public has been led to believe, the apologies are never as loud and as blatent as the accusations. While I am not against open and honest debate over any issue, that is not what's going to lead us to the truth in this matter...I believe that's what the investigation is for. I was not at this meeting where apparently several people stood up to speak about this situation...however, in any situation such as this, when a group with a clear agenda comes in and has several people stand up to make accusations and comments about the side they are opposed to...that is not open and honest debate, and it certainly will not lead to the truth. |
|
adefonzo
Junior Member
If I can see further than some, it's because I have stood on the shoulders of giants
Posts: 308
|
Post by adefonzo on Mar 3, 2008 10:24:15 GMT -5
On the subject of Delacy.. I wonder if the mayor, LeVine, Shutzer, Simms and Sue Sweetman are going to write the News Transcript and chastise Delacy the same way they did Rich. Or do they just stand up to some people? Do you really need an answer to this question, Brian? I think we all know there will not be a peep out of anyone regarding Mr Delacy. Then again...there was not a peep out of anyone after my last article in the Transcript either...so who knows why they chose to pick on Rich?  ? |
|
|
|
Post by admin on Mar 3, 2008 13:11:20 GMT -5
On the subject of Delacy.. I wonder if the mayor, LeVine, Shutzer, Simms and Sue Sweetman are going to write the News Transcript and chastise Delacy the same way they did Rich. Or do they just stand up to some people? I got email giving me some hell for the above post. For the record, I have no problem with that, and to the person who took the time to write me, I respect that and appreciate it. Catching a bit of hell comes with the territory when running a site like this. For that reason, I will clarify a bit on this forum due to having put the post here to begin with. My first post was short and snide. But, with reasoning behind it. I have long been a bit critical of the way in which our governing body has handled outside agitators. I have been consistent in that and my post was a bit of a follow through on that. On the subject of Rich's letter, I have written on these pages, as well as privately told the council people who I know, that I can respect the fact that the mayor and council were not too happy with the letter. If I were on the receiving end, I would come out swinging too. Even with that present respect I have for them, I have also made my position clear that I thought the responses to Rich's letter were weak and driven more by emotion. I recall singling out Marc, who usually does a very good job of writing letters. I still think it was not one of his best. We have seen so many examples over the years of outsiders slamming us. Recently we had Angel Matos from the LLA write a letter denouncing us for thinking of 287g. His letter was wide open for any who wanted to discredit his reasoning. I believe one of our elected leaders should have done that with the same vigor in which they went after Rich. None of them did. The above is one example. There have been several other examples through out the years. For me it comes down to how I believe things should be handled. In the case of Rich's letter, that was taken too personal. On the other hand we have had groups outright try to hurt our town. There is a difference. IMO, Rich has tried to help this town. The other groups in question are just that, in question, due to their motive and agenda. I believe it is crucial for those in the public spotlight to squash their personal responses and instead concentrate on defending this town every step of the way and at every chance. IMO, that is the high road. When in the spot light, as public officials are, they are bound to get smacked upside the head on occasion. That comes with the territory. Yes, they are human and it hurts, but the greater good of the town is what they are there for. That is public service. All of the above supports my question- why such fierce opposition to Rich and not the others? It appears lopsided, although I am sure not intentional. Getting back to HRC, this is why I want to see them take the lead, not some dude from one of the oranges. The HRC are the people we know and should put more faith into. They are the ones we should support and look to. I am glad that there were town residents at the council meeting as was reported by another participant. They should be there. People should question the police, just in a healthy and productive way. Above all, we should also reserve ourselves and allow the system to work. I hope all of the above clarifies my stance a bit better. My first post was off the cuff and not one of my best. For me it is a matter of how I think things should be handled. If anyone else wants to give me hell, feel free. |
|
|
|
Post by novillero on Mar 3, 2008 14:05:51 GMT -5
that's funny. Marc or the mayor e-mails you to control your posts. If they have a reaction to one of your posts, why don't they let everyone know?
|
|
|
|
Post by richardkelsey on Mar 3, 2008 14:35:06 GMT -5
On the subject of Delacy.. I wonder if the mayor, LeVine, Shutzer, Simms and Sue Sweetman are going to write the News Transcript and chastise Delacy the same way they did Rich. Mr. Delacy is without credibility on this issue, so why waste time pointing out that which is self-evident. As for me, I wear the attacks as a badge of honor. |
|
|
|
Post by admin on Mar 3, 2008 15:36:04 GMT -5
that's funny. Marc or the mayor e-mails you to control your posts. If they have a reaction to one of your posts, why don't they let everyone know? Wrong on both counts! And are you saying that Borough Hall controls my posts?  |
|
|
|
Post by novillero on Mar 3, 2008 17:35:05 GMT -5
that's funny. Marc or the mayor e-mails you to control your posts. If they have a reaction to one of your posts, why don't they let everyone know? Wrong on both counts! And are you saying that Borough Hall controls my posts? Okay, inserts the words "try to" after the words "you to." So if they did not e-mail you, it must've been Shutzer, Simms or Sue Sweetman as they were the people you mentioned. And, um, what were we talking about again? |
|
|
|
Post by concerned on Jun 3, 2008 19:43:11 GMT -5
Did I misss the huge outcry from our precious relations committee over the murder in town?Course not....What a joke.
|
|
|
|
Post by lisas84 on Jun 4, 2008 7:50:24 GMT -5
What are you talking about, Concerned? What do you mean by "precious" relations committee? You're concerned and I'm confused.
|
|
|
|
Post by concerned on Jun 22, 2008 17:46:42 GMT -5
Lisa, by precious I mean useless...You had members of that committee making public statements like my personal favorite"I've been a reverend here for a long time and white people don't get stopped in this town.." following the outcry over the police brutality complaint that has now turned out to be totally fraudulent on her part. PS.-rumor has it he was cleared by the county and his own department, guess thats still a secret though.The apology to him and his family will never come from these members, it doesnt get your name in the headlines.That's why I refer to them as precious, because they really believe they are for all people and it's clearly only minorities that get their support, they are fragile and precious.
|
|
|
|
Post by lisas84 on Jun 23, 2008 7:58:33 GMT -5
Hi, Concerned!
Where ya been? Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.
|
|
