HRAC meeting April 3, 2007

[admin]

Hawkeye, try to calm down with the anger. Go to the illegal immigration topic and you will find a thread titled "what would you do". Put your money where your mouth is and let us know what you would do if you were elected to office.

[admin]

calliope said:

Hey, Hawkeye, Hot Lips Here...

Your critique of me does not offend me -- I have a much thicker skin than that.

However, I will assert that you completely destroyed your own credibility by your vituperative statements.

"Scum buckets?" -- "beaten like dogs?" Inhumane and disgusting. "third world?" Completely disrespectful.

Fueling the fires of ignorant intolerance and hatred will destroy this town faster than anything else. It seems clear that this is your stance.

I would much rather be naive than be a hate-monger.

Hawkeye,

I will back up what Calliope wrote. I have also received phone calls complaining about your posts. I do not like to delete posts, but if you continue as you are, I will.

Consider this a warning.

[admin]

geo said:

Please do not censor anybody.

I want to listen to what Hawkeye and For Sale have to say. They have tapped into an undercurrent of resentment. Can't blame the illegal aliens for everything. I don't know of too many people who would give the Freehold Borough Council an A+ for results. This web site is way to "Council Friendly" and a little constructive criticism is not a bad thing.

Geo,

You should know by now that I do not like to censor. But, when I have people I respect calling me and voicing concerns, I do listen. I am not a perfect moderator.

With that said, I would not worry about the undercurrent of resentment that you point out. I believe most have that figured out.

I would not say this site is totally council friendly. Thankfully, we have one of them posting on this site and he has taken some heat for that-on and off the site. I wish more of them would join, as well as more of our residents with all view points.

I do hope that hawkeye and foursale will both continue to post, just with a bit more tact and respect.

[LS]

richardkelsey said:

Marc said:

7. Discontinue the practice of fining only one owner in a multiply owned residence. Fine each owner, thereby increasing revenue and further inconveniencing landlord(s). Similarly, in the case of overcrowding, a fine should be issued for each resident occupying the premises beyond the legal limit. PENDING LEGAL REVIEW.

Owners of the property should be jointly and severally liable. That is -- you can't collect the fine twice -- once form each (or more). However, each should be liable such that you can collect from any one -- in whole or in part.

I disagree. Two owners, two violations. Criminal conduct should not get a pass because more than one person is performing, aiding or abetting the conduct - those 3 bank robbers from last week, all 3 will get charged - you are not charging the bank robbing gang as a single entity, but each as a member of the gang - and if there are 3 property owners jeopardizing the lives of the tenants and the community at large, then all of them should be penalized.

To the extent, that Rich may be right (and I hope he isn't) - let the criminals figure it out, or work it out amongst themselves. Plus, charging all owners lets all owners be aware what is going on - if it is a husband or wife, or a partner and silent partner - I am sure that the less active property owner will be very interested to discover that they are being charged with an ordinance violation, or crime - and don't forget that some violations even come with the possibility of imprisonment.

And what was proposed was not a new law, but a practice by code enforcement - let all of them show up in court and figure out who will pay (assuming that only one can pay) - you will probably not settle for pennies on the fine if you charge 2-3 property owners instead of one. The inconvenience and possibility of being charged separately will go a long way in getting bad landlords to straighten out their acts.

[Marc LeVine]

let all of them show up in court and figure out who will pay (assuming that only one can pay) - you will probably not settle for pennies on the fine if you charge 2-3 property owners instead of one. The inconvenience and possibility of being charged separately will go a long way in getting bad landlords to straighten out their acts.

All indications point to this as being the way it will eventually come down. Good take on this one, LS.

Marc

[Marc LeVine]

Councilman LeVine is wrong. He has been beaten by the terrorists.

Never! If cancer han't beaten me, the mean spirited actions of others never will. I have been and always will be true to myself and always committed to our town.

The time for talk is not under the threats that have continued. And do not be so stupid as to believe that the illegal invaders do not understand what they are supposed to do. They Know, they do not care. And they will not until they are pushed hard. Again, negotiating with never works. They count on naive little girls like you to cave in.

The "time for talk" began long before the recent controversy and not under anyone's pressure. That's what the Fund for an Open Society meeting was all about. That's why I also raised money for Bicycle safety vests and distributed them.

Separate out the people from the advocates. I'm most interested in working with the people, directly. And, they will be pushed as hard as anyone living in our town and responsible to our laws.

In the end, it is up to people to comply with our laws or to accept the consequences we all do for noncompliance. I've paid a few fines, over the years, for not bundling my branches in 4' sections at the curb. Or, when my wife parked her car facing the wrong direction on our street. I didn't get any free passes, those times, and neither should anyone else who fails to acknowledge these and other more serious Borough ordinances, like overcrowding, running illegal restaurants or riding bicycles in an unsafe manner.

No, illegal immigrants shouldn't be here, in Freehold Borough. But, those that are already here should not be ignored to the point that it is acceptable for them to live in their own little world. No, not at the expense of the rest of us. We're not even talking "negotiate." We're just talking communicate. Issues like overcrowding and car jumping are non-negotiable, anyway. They must be educated to know the rules and the consequences of violating them.

On the "giving side" we will certainly protect all of our residents from bad landlords and malicious others. This is what local governments do for all those living in their towns. It's not a tax benefit either - it's just the right thing to do in a civilized society.

Fear? The only fear I have related to what happens to our town if we do not start communicating responsibilities to others and hold everyone accountable for them.

Marc

[Hawkeye]

I just got back to this topic and did not realize so many were mad at me. My deepest apologies for offending all of you over sensitive types.

Geo, I am glad to see at least one open minded person on this alleged " open " forum.

calliope, i could have some real fun with your hotlips handle, but I am sure that big bri would edit me again. Well, big C, you would be wise to not engage in your own brand of intolerance and hate that you appear so concerned about. I learned long, long ago, that when a person is irate or irrational, there is an underlying reason. Most of the time. Do you think most of us wake up angry every day seeking reasons to lash out? Not likely. I would love for you to live with me, with the worlds worst neighbors. I do blame the town government. They have earned it.

Councilman Levine, I am glad you beat the cancer, I would not wish that on the worst of the worst. From where I sit, it appears you are the strongest of the council. But, alas, you fine fellas are getting stomped to the ground by the advocates. Please correct me if I am wrong with the following. Let us go back to the rally at the council meeting. As I wrote before, I did not get in. What I know is by word of mouth and what i read in the papers. Did you really get the support from your fellow council members that you should have?

Everything i heard and understand is basically the same. The other council members all said you made a dumb statement, but they defended your right to opine. If that is in fact the gist of what occurred, you had better find some new friends. They took the cheap way out. They all should have defended you far more, and not one of you should have been on the defense. That mentality is why you are all losing. If that is the case, that is why I say you are beat. From within.

[adefonzo]

When is the next meeting for this committee? I am very interested in going, so that I can see just what it is that the committee does. I am assuming the meetings are open to the public?

If anyone has a date on the next meeting...please let me know.

[cloris]

adefonzo said:

When is the next meeting for this committee? I am very interested in going, so that I can see just what it is that the committee does. I am assuming the meetings are open to the public?

If anyone has a date on the next meeting...please let me know.

Andrew, I am glad that you posted this question under this thread. Although I do not have your answer, it is an interesting read. I see the topic of appointing a day laborer to the HRC was addressed here. Fast forward to recent thread and we now know that a Casa Freehold illegal alien who does not live here now sits on that committee.

We see the topic of rental regulation and there has been very little progress discussed any where else. What is going on? The HRC appears to be only concerned with the illegals and I see no discussion here where they addressed the home owners. That is a shame to see a one sided thread.

I just posted on another thread and I will write it again.

Ted Miller gets my vote. I can only hope he won't be so stupid.

[Libyan Sibyl]

admin said:

A couple of items that were discussed which I forgot to mention in my first post.

...

2. Frank Argote Freyre suggested that a Day Laborer be appointed to the Human Relations Committee. This idea should have been forwarded to the Mayor via Council liaison Sims.

I guess this answers some questions. Thanks CLoris for bringing this topic back to the top.