Public schools must not hold much value....

[fiberisgoodforyou]

www.businessweek.com/2000/00_40/b3701170.htm

Over time, Springsteen has become something of a patron saint to the town, quietly extending a hand when there is trouble that a famous face or a large contribution might fix. When the call goes out to the Boss, usually there is also some social agenda as well. That was the case in 1985, when 3M announced plans to downsize its Freehold plant and Springsteen lent his name to a newspaper ad protesting the decision. In 1996, Springsteen came to the aid of his alma mater he played a benefit concert in the 1,300-seat gym of St. Rose of Lima, his old Catholic School. Concert tickets, at $30 a pop, were available only to residents of Freehold, and the proceeds went to a new parish center being built to serve the town's growing Hispanic population.

[fiberisgoodforyou]

''We've been pretty sensitive to overblowing what you'd call the nostalgia of him growing up here,'' says Michael Wilson, Freehold's mayor, who calls Springsteen about issues of concern to the town a few times a year.

I suppose the loose of the music teacher , along with art, and a needed guidance counselor has fallen on deaf ears, after all its a public school, not St Rose.

[ls]

It's pretty unfair to expect one man to bail out Freehold everytime we send out a Bat Signal.

I think everyone sending their kids to public schools should have to pay extra taxes, and pay for their kids books. That would free up some money.

[andrewd]

ls said:

It's pretty unfair to expect one man to bail out Freehold everytime we send out a Bat Signal.

I think everyone sending their kids to public schools should have to pay extra taxes, and pay for their kids books. That would free up some money.

Not to sound combative, defensive, divisive, or in any other way offensive...but did you go to public schools when you were younger? Do you have children that are going to public schools? I really am just curious, because I hear this type of "solution" more often than one might think, and I am always sure to ask people that suggest this if they have had any ties to the public school system.

[admin]

andrewd said:

ls said:

It's pretty unfair to expect one man to bail out Freehold every time we send out a Bat Signal.

I think everyone sending their kids to public schools should have to pay extra taxes, and pay for their kids books. That would free up some money.

Not to sound combative, defensive, divisive, or in any other way offensive...but did you go to public schools when you were younger? Do you have children that are going to public schools? I really am just curious, because I hear this type of "solution" more often than one might think, and I am always sure to ask people that suggest this if they have had any ties to the public school system.

I'm going to sound combative.


I agree with LS, parents should pay their own way for their children.

And for those of us who went to public schools, at that age we are not given a choice. It is lame to hold it over our heads for the rest of our lives.

To sound non combative.

Andrew, you know I have no ties to public schools at this time. Even with that said, I do understand the value of them and fundamentally support them. I simply do not like how they are funded. The concept of free education is anything but. The current system is very hostile to people like me, with no children, seniors, and parents of home schooled and private schooled children.

From what I see, parents do not get the best bang for the buck in public schools. At the early ages, pre K for example, that is nothing short of tax payer subsidized day care. That is wrong. I could go off on a tangent about all of this, but I will be good. I know that we are in a town full of liberal minded individuals who think the schools will raise their kids for them ( note all the parental involvement) and others who think I should also put their little ones through Harvard.

[LS]

andrewd said:

ls said:

It's pretty unfair to expect one man to bail out Freehold everytime we send out a Bat Signal.

I think everyone sending their kids to public schools should have to pay extra taxes, and pay for their kids books. That would free up some money.

Not to sound combative, defensive, divisive, or in any other way offensive...but did you go to public schools when you were younger? Do you have children that are going to public schools? I really am just curious, because I hear this type of "solution" more often than one might think, and I am always sure to ask people that suggest this if they have had any ties to the public school system.

I guess you don't think much of the idea as you only want to set up a future assault on me (that's what people do when they answer with a personal question). That's fine, and I won't bother to answer your question either.

You are obviously in a position to answer my question as you are in position to know more, but if you don't want to respond that is also your perogative. Anyway I wasn't really asking you, I was merely putting out a proposition into cyberspace regardless of how plausible it was. In an ideal world, we would have the funding and we wouldn't have to pray that Bruce Springsteen right every Freehold wrong. We could always pray to become an Abbott district, or secretly pray that all Mexican kids leave town, or even hope that the next uncashed lottery ticket be given to the Freehold Borough Board of Education. These are all ideas, but they are not very likely. I just posed a passing thought (after answering that the Boss is not the guardian angel of the boro no matter what a newspaper reporter has written). You never know when a good idea will come along, but as you know you have to wade through some pretty bad ones first.

But in case you want to know an answer to another, yet unasked, question, I vote for the budget increases. So I am willing to spend the extra buck as I realize that their is something more at stake than a short term payout in taxes.

But let me ask you a personal question... "Not to sound combative, defensive, divisive, or in any other way offensive... but" did your parents send their children to schools that were in such dire need like Freehold's? Or would they have moved to a better performing school district, or would they have sent their kids to a private school, or would they have held their noses and sent their children to the boro elementary schools because they couldn't afford the prior two options?

[andrewd]

Hold on just a minute...

First of all, this is going to be one of those posts where I have to say that I am not in any way speaking for the Freehold Boro Board of Education or any of it's members, this is just my own thoughts and opinions.

Alright, let me get right into this...

I asked, what I thought was, a simple question of "LS" because I always like to find out someone's reasoning behind their ideas. Brian expressed his opinion on the topic and his reasoning for it, and I can fully understand and appreciate his position.

"LS", you chose not to answer the question, but rather to say this... "I guess you don't think much of the idea as you only want to set up a future assault on me (that's what people do when they answer with a personal question). That's fine, and I won't bother to answer your question either.

You are obviously in a position to answer my question as you are in position to know more ".

Well, now you have compelled me to respond. To start, I did not see a question in your post, therefore I did not "answer" anything. As you said, you were "merely putting out a proposition into cyberspace regardless of how plausible it was". For my part, I was trying to get some understanding as to why you felt that way. I apologize if you misunderstood my intentions. When I say that I am asking a question and not trying to be combative, or offensive...I mean just that, there is no hidden agenda with me. I was not trying to set up some assault on you. So while I apologize if my question was misunderstood, do not for one second presume to know what my motivation behind asking it was, because obviously, you do not.

I will answer you question though. When I went through the public schools here in Freehold Boro, there weren't 12+million illegal immigrants flooding into the country unchecked who were then having children that they knew would automatically be American citizens having been born in this country, who would then drastically overcrowd our schools. So no, my parents did not put me in a school system that was in the kind of trouble that our district (and many other districts across the nation) is in. However, I do have a sister who went through the Freehold Boro public school system just a few years ago, so she was there during the time when our district started suffering. Why did my father and stepmother choose to put her through the schools despite knowing the issues the district was facing? I do not know, and I will not presume to answer for them. I do know that my sister did very well in the Freehold Boro schools, and continues to do well now in high school.

Let's not beat around the bush. In my opinion, the single greatest problem in our schools is obviously the large number of American born students who are the children of the large illegal immigrant population that has settled here in the Boro.

Yes, unfunded state mandates hurt, flat funding from the state has hurt, the lack of our state to even be able to come up with a funding formula that works has hurt...but if we were not so overcrowded in our schools because of the children of the illegal population in our town, our financial problems would not be so dire.

But here's the rub that it seems people continue to not understand...the Board of Ed has no power to control the illegal immigrant population in our town, that's an issue for local, state and federal government (not just the federal government as so many on the local and state level would have you believe). As the Board of Ed, we have to abide by the rules established by the State of New Jersey in regards to who we have to allow into our schools and thereby educate, and the states laws on that issue are so loose it's quite frankly a joke!! But as long as the rules are in place, all we can do is follow the rules while deciding whether to fight them on the side.

Let me say this again, I do not speak for the board or any of it's members. Personally, I spend a good deal of time as a private citizen writing letters to my state senator and assembly people, the commissioner of education for the state, and many others trying to get some action on these issues...but that is all I can do - until it's time to vote for the people who are running for those positions.

Before I go too far off on this rant, let me get something else out there...

It is my opinion that as a society, we have an obligation to offer a public education to the children that are going to be responsible for taking our country into the future, and that means that tax dollars have to come out of our paychecks to pay for it.

I have never had a fire in my house, should I have to pay taxes for a fire department I don't use? I don't agree with the Mayor of our town on a great deal of issues, should I not have to pay taxes for the small amount of money he gets to be the Mayor? I don't have an issue with black bears in this state, should I have to contribute to the money our state is spending on protecting the black bear population?? I in no way contributed to the financial problems this state is facing regarding the debt it owes to pensions for public employees, should my tax dollars go to help them repair a system that they broke??

As the saying goes, the only thing certain in life is death and taxes. What I have never understood is why people choose to continuously take it on the local school board? I guess I could understand it if I lived in an Abbott district, my schools were spending $20,000+ a year per student, and they were still failing to meet state minimums, then the district "misplaces" $500,000 without any sort of concern about it...but here in Freehold Boro, we're pinching a quarter till the Eagle screams, getting more "bang for our buck" than I'll bet at least 95% of the schools in this state, and still we are viewed as the cause of the local taxpayers problems.

Look, I understand everyone's frustrated, but we have to channel the frustration at the right people. Constant attacks that I see on this website against the school board and administration, in my own opinion, are for the most part greatly unjustified. But, that's the advantage to living in this country...you can say whatever you want. But if you are really concerned and want to find a solution, try working with the board instead of against it.

Agree with me or disagree with me...that is your prerogative. But whether you believe it or not, I am doing all I can to try and make things better...I could certainly use more help if anyone is interested in putting in the effort.

[LS]

I think we agree, and disagree and at points are arguing in different directions. I believe you misunderstand where I am coming from. I was talking specific to Freehold Borough, specific to our particular funding problem.

I also think society has a role to play in education. But we have a specific problem. Given that we are overcrowded and underfunded (and can't do much about that), my thought was to get more money in the system somehow. There are 2 options on getting money: (1) directly from some government; or (2) directly from the private community.

We have a moral duty to educate and a constitutional mandate to do so.

But what does education include? We have just decided that it does not necessarily include music and art, and is being cut in other ways. Obviously, we are looking to cut expenses. Does education mean supplying text books? Can you eduacte without a book? Are we constitutionally bound to supply each and every text book?

And can education be done in another way? I don't know. The other day on 60 Minutes, the question was posed: what if every kid had a laptop?

www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/20/60minutes/main2830058.shtml

These laptops cost $176 (but needed to be bought in minimum lots of 250,000). Putting aside the minimum lot problem, are there substitutes for textbooks that could provide adequate education, or even a better education?

Or, what back to my proposal, putting the burden of expenses on parents. Could this conceivably be done? If a kid needs gym shorts, the parents buy them (and gym is a mandatory class). Why not having parents buy the textbooks? Or some hybrid formula with subsidies based on parental income?

In my opinion, some of your rhetorical questions regarding black bears, fire department, etc. are not the same issue. Other taxpayers in this state are not helping our education system (in any significant way). And I am sure that if state funding was cut on controlling black bears, deer populations, etc, the county or municipal governments would have to find a way to step up to the plate and get the money from the residents that have those immediate problems. AND that is what I am proposing. In my opinion, we are in a very bad state of affairs on the issue of child education in the Boro (I am not concerned about kids in other towns), and something needs to be done. I am not trying to punish people for having kids in school, but when the money isn't coming from a budget, and we are looking to a guardian angel as a realistic soultion (it isn't realistic), why shouldn't the people that have these real problems reach a bit further into their own pockets to ensure their own children's education. (Again, we know that the townspeople have voted it down, so the pool for donations is getting smaller and smaller)

By the way, sometimes home owners are charged the fees for calling out the fire department, or ambulance fees, especially if it was a situation where the homeowner caused the fire through some illegality.