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Post by Libyan Sibyl on Nov 9, 2006 14:16:59 GMT -5
I have just heard a rumor that the Freehold Learning Center will be starting pre-k for residents.
FYI, Pre-k is not currently offered to borough residents, and most towns do not offer public funded pre-k. What is interesting is that the pre-k will be only for the ESL students. English speaking (read "American children") will not be eligible for pre-k enrollment. The biggest slap is that the schools are already overcrowded, but this class will take up space in the already overcrowded school system (at your tax dollar).
I would like to know if this is true.
I would also like to know what power/say the borough council has in this.
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Post by Marc LeVine on Nov 9, 2006 15:00:36 GMT -5
The Board of Education has the final say on school decisions.
They DO have regularly scheduled open meetings, where residents can go and voice their opinions - as strongly as they may wish to.
The Borough Council has no authority within the schools, but does appoint a liaison to keep both sides updated. I believe this year's education liaison is Councilman Kevin Kane. He replaced Kevin Coyne in that role.
Marc
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Post by Libyan Sibyl on Nov 10, 2006 9:28:34 GMT -5
NOT ONE OTHER VOICE OF OUTRAGE?
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Post by richardkelsey on Nov 10, 2006 12:51:17 GMT -5
NOT ONE OTHER VOICE OF OUTRAGE? I am outraged -- but I live 245 miles away -- and I don't have to pay for it. |
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Post by Marc LeVine on Nov 10, 2006 15:47:21 GMT -5
Why not send an email to FB School's Superintendent, Elizabeth O'Connell, through the web site at: www.fhboroschools.org/index.php?option=com_comprofiler&task=usersList&Itemid=51She will get it Monday morning. Follow that up by attending a meeting or two; bring others along to support your cause; and/ or present a signed petition opposing pre-K for the board to consider. Editorials are also helpful in such situations. Marc |
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Post by Libyan Sibyl on Nov 10, 2006 16:06:44 GMT -5
Marc, your responses make me believe two things: (1) you are not surprised; and (2) you are not upset.
Can you at least confirm this nasty rumor.
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Post by Marc LeVine on Nov 10, 2006 16:56:17 GMT -5
I'm afraid that I can not be angry at the whole world for everything I see. This serves no good purpose and is such a waste of our brief lives and good living. I am a Cancer survivor and my father lays, near death, in a coma. His brain exploded. He may never kiss his wife and grandchildren again nor enjoy another good meal that is not entering his newly installed feeding tube. I have often been angry at G-d for these things and have found it has gotten me nowhere. So, I must put all things in proper their perspective. This does no mean I will not let others know that I disagree with there actions - ANY ONE.
Increasing one's blood pressure is a much less better option than making our dissatisfaction known to others (school board) in a rational and intelligent, yet resolute manner (AND, supported by about 200+ resident's signatures on a petition). In short, I'd prefer to give someone else my bad day rather than to accept theirs.
In this particular situation, the board of education is totally accountable (to us all) and it is their legal jurisdiction to reign supreme in all school matters in Freehold Borough. Concerned residents need to let them know, directly, how they feel about their decisions or they can send that message through our council liaison, Kevin Kane. There is this kind of recourse that we all have. I suggest that you and others who agree with you avail yourselves of this right.
As for me being "upset?" Whether I am upset or not over adding a Pre-K makes little difference to anyone but, perhaps, my cardiologist, since the board of education is an autonomous body and can do as they wish with or without Council's approval.
Marc
p.s. I pay taxes, too.
p.s.s. Get a petition going...
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Post by Libyan Sibyl on Nov 10, 2006 17:29:39 GMT -5
translation:
It is not a rumor. You knew, and you are not upset.
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Post by Marc LeVine on Nov 10, 2006 17:45:09 GMT -5
You pre-suppose, my good friend. I will not use the word "assume, " because we all learned what doing that makes us, all the way back in grade school. You know...it makes an "bleep" of "u" and "me."
Read my other post on the topic of "upset." It's too painful and time consuming to rehash.
Marc
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Post by Marc LeVine on Nov 10, 2006 17:47:24 GMT -5
...
PS. I PAY TAXES TOO!!!
PSS - START A PETITION!!!
Can be any clearer than that...?
Marc
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bergsteiger
Full Member
War is simple, direct, and ruthless
Posts: 1,189
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Post by bergsteiger on Nov 11, 2006 17:10:54 GMT -5
My uncle teaches ESL for adults at night, it’s free (not to the tax payers  ). He said greater then 80% of his students speak Spanish but are illiterate in Spanish.  |
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Post by admin on Nov 11, 2006 18:23:14 GMT -5
NOT ONE OTHER VOICE OF OUTRAGE? What I am about to write is not a criticism of Marc or our other elected leaders in Freehold. I do believe they are facing an uphill battle in many ways. For years I have had outrage at the school systems, not just here, but in general. A big part of the reason is that they can not be challenged. The vote on the referendum is proof positive. The schools just have too much on their side. That is why I would not waste my time with a petition. It will fall on deaf ears. If I had any reason to believe that a petition would do good, I would help. The schools want more money, they get it. That simple. There is nothing that the tax payer can do. With the schools getting backing from Washington, Trenton, Teachers unions, the County, and a Board of Education that does not answer to anyone, it is as good as a blank check. With that said, schools are in the business of teaching the children put in front of them. It is as fact that we have a large number of illegals and non English speaking residents, specifically, residing in the boro. That is not going to change. The costs to educate these kids will be higher due to English language deficiency. The schools are going to teach these kids regardless. That is their job. Considering that the schools were recently whining about the lack of space, it is absurd that they are doing something that will now place a greater burden on that space. They will get their way, petitions or elections be d**ned. That leaves us all with two choices. Either deal with it and resign yourselves to aiding this system, or leave. If you stay in NJ you will only find more of the same nonsense coming from the schools. If you do not like this system, the only choice is to find a state which funds it's schools in a more sane and tax payer friendly manner. And in the spirit of the direction the boro schools are going, we must look at the big picture. Schools are one of the most important factors that potential residents look at when buying a house. With the current state of our schools, what are the predictions for getting more middle class Americans into our town? It is ashame that with all the current Mayor and Council are trying to do, they can not touch this one very important topic. Outrage? been there done that. Surprised? not in the least. |
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Post by Guest on Nov 12, 2006 11:15:25 GMT -5
Brian, you are a sensible person. I have to say that on this one I'm on the fence, I don't believe there is a need for Pre-K ESL instructions, children at 4/5 are a sponge and they will be speaking English within weeks (literally). However the voting against the referendum does the collective people of Freehold Borough no good. What good comes out of perpetuating the cycle of illiteracy, these very children the Borough voted against educating WILL be their residents and neighbors in the future (count on it). Wouldn’t it be to the best interest of town residents to have a well educated youth?
Pay a little now, or a LOT later, this is the real choice for Freehold residents!
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Post by admin on Nov 12, 2006 18:26:32 GMT -5
Brian, you are a sensible person. I have to say that on this one I'm on the fence, I don't believe there is a need for Pre-K ESL instructions, children at 4/5 are a sponge and they will be speaking English within weeks (literally). However the voting against the referendum does the collective people of Freehold Borough no good. What good comes out of perpetuating the cycle of illiteracy, these very children the Borough voted against educating WILL be their residents and neighbors in the future (count on it). Wouldn’t it be to the best interest of town residents to have a well educated youth? Pay a little now, or a LOT later, this is the real choice for Freehold residents! Hello guest! I understand your concerns, but I have to differ on a point or two. I do not believe that anybody is voting agaist schools or trying to perpetuate illiteracy. I believe the vote against the referendum was for a couple of reasons. The first being the system itself. The way the school taxes are collected are a huge burden on many people, and not distributed fairly. This is not just a Freehold issue, but a state wide one. People are just fed up with the status quo. Consider that vote on the mood of the people. They are tired of being taxed. Many are leaving this state in droves, especially retirees. Keep in mind that the vast majority of Freehold residents are middle/working class people. Not poor people who recieve subsidies. Not wealthy people who can often pay some more. Regular people on tight budgets. I write that in context of the reevaluation. Many of us got hit HARD. For the schools to ask for more was just too much, too soon. It comes down to basic economics. Again, the vote is not against education, but the system that supports it. This system is not friendly to any but the educrats. |
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Post by Guest on Nov 12, 2006 18:56:31 GMT -5
Brian, I too understand that the taxes collected is a huge burden, and I particularly share with you the profound inefficiencies of our educational system, Freehold Borough been no exception. However, by voting against the referendum we hurt the children of Freehold Borough directly, whether the vote was to prove a point or to just plainly deny education to our children, it has the same effect.
I understand that the people of Freehold Borough are lower and middle/middle class, and that the tax hikes due to the last year’s reassessment was, in fact, a huge burden on the wallets of Freehold Borough residents. However I still think that we MUST put the education of our children first. How many of us would worry about the debt we will incur if our daughter/son was accepted to Yale or Harvard or Princeton? Not many because we would know that the benefits of the education would far outwait its burden.
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Post by Libyan Sibyl on Nov 13, 2006 10:01:13 GMT -5
Start a petition. I may not have to. What does the borough council say about this? and what has the borough council liason said to the Board of Ed?
We still have not confirmed the rumor.
Does anyone have an answer that does not involved any of Marc's medical conditions?
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Post by Libyan Sibyl on Nov 13, 2006 10:46:02 GMT -5
Anyway, if I started a petition and went door-to-door, Freehold Resident or Marc's neighbor might call the cops on me.
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Post by Marc LeVine on Nov 13, 2006 10:59:45 GMT -5
Sibyl:
Your last remark was very unnecessary.
The issue you brought up, originally, WILL be discussed on Council, you can be sure of that. We will hear what Kevin Kane has to share about this as the liason. We will act in the best interests of all, based on what we are able to do. Again, these things I am sure of.
Why not come to tonight's council meeting and start the ball rolling? It is a workshop, but it does have a time for public comments. Bring it up before everyone.
Marc
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Post by Marc LeVine on Nov 13, 2006 11:04:04 GMT -5
This was the comment I was responding to. I can deal with the dig on the No-Knock Ordinance.
Marc
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Post by Marc LeVine on Nov 13, 2006 11:23:26 GMT -5
Brian:
Yes, that referendum really damaged the public's will. I understand that. However, I can't accept that unfortunate situation as an end to democracy. What has been learned from that situation that needs to be applied, now, and ahead of a future situation?
Why give up so easily? If you want to create change, you need a complete effort made up of many activities.
A petition, like a protest, is part of freedom of speech. Petitions are permanent records of public dissatisfaction, supported by greater numbers that should interest the media. Petitions can be forwarded to legislators and to others to make a point. Granted they are not "end alls" for every situation, but they are part of our right to dissent. We shouldn't be so cynical so as to devolve into having to suffer in the dark or make hopelessness a preferred choice.
As a first step, this whole concern (about Per-K) should be brought up at tonight's council meeting (publicly to Kevin Kane) and should, especially, be brought up before the board of education. Share your dissatisfaction with the it's members. If you do not speak, they will absolutely not hear.
Marc
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Post by admin on Nov 13, 2006 11:45:05 GMT -5
Brian: Yes, that referendum really damaged the public's will. I understand that. However, I can't accept that unfortunate situation as an end to democracy. What has been learned from that situation that needs to be applied, now, and ahead of a future situation? Why give up so easily? If you want to create change, you need a complete effort made up of many activities. A petition, like a protest, is part of freedom of speech. Petitions are permanent records of public dissatisfaction, supported by greater numbers that should interest the media. Petitions can be forwarded to legislators and to others to make a point. Granted they are not "end alls" for every situation, but they are part of our right to dissent. We shouldn't be so cynical so as to devolve into having to suffer in the dark or make hopelessness a preferred choice. As a first step, this whole concern (about Per-K) should be brought up at tonight's council meeting (publicly to Kevin Kane) and should, especially, be brought up before the board of education. Share your dissatisfaction with the it's members. If you do not speak, they will absolutely not hear. Marc Marc, I understand and respect the points you make here. For that reason I have to apologize for being a defeatist on this one. And, again, my critique is lobbed at the entire educrat establishment. As far as Freehold, the board already has our dissent--twice. That would be the referendum. That is a part of public record and all politicians in this state know that the voters and tax payers are really tired. Schools are a tough ball game every where. Just look at New York City. Guiliani was the best Mayor they have had and he had a very tough time, to the point of very little positive change. That was one of his few failures. Blomberg has done some things, but only time will tell. Schools are a battle that I simply can not get into. My handicap on the issue is that I have no children. The schools supporters will only turn that around and call me selfish for not wanting to put every child through Yale. Never mind that I am paying oodles of money for a service that I do not use. To further illustrate this a a Jersey problem, I looked at PA property taxes. Compatible homes to mine have taxes that range from thirty to fifty percent less than what I am paying. The strange part of that is that the percent of schools taxes taken from PA property taxes is about seventy percent, compared to my fifty percent. I do not have all of the facts or the complete comparisons of the two states, but when I found out the above, the differences are amazing. |
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Post by Marc LeVine on Nov 13, 2006 11:55:12 GMT -5
You make some vaild points, here. We must carefully balance the educational needs of our children with both our ability to pay and the town's ability to right itself by retaining its non transient residents and attracting the home ownership that will displace absentee landlords and win us the day.
Here's the real question, now. Is Pre-K something we really must have, now, to create the success our that schools need? Is this a major "something" to help us compete with other communties or can our money be spent in better ways to directly benefit learning and push up those critical test scores that equate to positive the PR realtors use to sell Freehold Borough to young families?
Let's get the answers to these and related questions, first. A little added homework is also helpful. If we are not satisfied with the answers we receive (from the board) - then let's say NO to the proposal and reject theo solution.
If you can't go this far, than why bring up the topic to begin with?
Marc
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Post by Marc LeVine on Nov 13, 2006 12:04:23 GMT -5
We will hear a little more about tax reform in just two days. I expect that baby steps will be taken and I am skeptical that we will really see a 20% reduction in our property taxes in the coming year - though, we really need to see a 50% drop.
In any case, there is finally acknowledgment of our problems and movement on the issue in Trenton. The pressure must remain on, at all levels of government in New Jersey, to reduce and realign our property tax payments, so that we can pay less to government without increasing the suffering of seniors, children and others.
This is difficult, but not impossible. Other states have been balancing these two needs better than we have, for years. The answers are already out there - the willingness to accept/apply them, by Trenton, is what is really in question.
Now is NOT the time for silence.
Marc
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Post by Marc LeVine on Nov 13, 2006 12:08:07 GMT -5
With this, I was responding to "Guest's" Sunday comments.
Marc
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Post by Guest on Nov 13, 2006 12:12:10 GMT -5
Schools are a battle that I simply can not get into. My handicap on the issue is that I have no children. The schools supporters will only turn that around and call me selfish for not wanting to put every child through Yale. Never mind that I am paying oodles of money for a service that I do not use.
Brian, one does not need to be a person with children in the school system in Freehold Borough, or anywhere else for that matter, to opine on such a critical and important issue as education. You as a resident of FB also have the right, and obligation to do so as well. However the only thing I ask of you is to try to be unprejudiced when doing so. The education of the children of FB is as much your business (responsibility) as it is mine as a parent of a school-age child.
Let me give you an example, how many fires have you had at your home? Probably none, I’m going to presuppose, however you still pay for the fire department. Think of education in the same terms, just because you don’t personally use it doesn’t mean that it is not important to the community as a whole.
I get your dig on ‘Yale’ but why not Yale? Aren’t FB children good enough or deserving of a top-notch education as much as children from more prominent areas?
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Post by Libyan Sibyl on Nov 13, 2006 12:23:27 GMT -5
Let's get back on track. Re-read the first post.
The issues are whether :
(1) there is a pre-k in the works; and
(2) more importantly, if that pre-k will be geared to ESL only.
Let's debate everything else, well, elsewhere.
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Post by Marc LeVine on Nov 13, 2006 12:47:35 GMT -5
Good. Let's find out at tonight's meeting. I can easily enough email Jim Keelen on this, but in a few hours we can ask Kevin Kane, the liason, and know the answer. This is Kevin's area and it's more appropriate to let him respond and carry back any messages from the council and community.
If none of you ask about this, tonight, I will do so and post the answer for you. How's that?
Then, you can decide where you want to go from here.
Marc
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Post by Guest on Nov 13, 2006 13:06:29 GMT -5
As a first step, this whole concern (about Per-K) should be brought up at tonight's council meeting (publicly to Kevin Kane) and should, especially, be brought up before the board of education. Share your dissatisfaction with the it's members. If you do not speak, they will absolutely not hear. Marc Is there a council meeting tonight? |
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Post by Marc LeVine on Nov 13, 2006 14:36:54 GMT -5
Yes.
Marc
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Post by Marc LeVine on Nov 14, 2006 10:37:27 GMT -5
Reporting back to you. No one on council was aware of approval, by the board of education, for adding a Pre-K. Our Liaison, Kevin Kane reached out to Jim Keelen on the board of ed, just prior to last night's meeting, to hear what he has to say about this. Kevin will email the rest of council as soon as Jim gets back to him. At that time, I will offer an update on this board.
I will say that if we are going to make FB more desirable to the first time homeowners, we must be sure that our schools are improved and can enjoy some better PR.
More than anything else we can only achieve our overall goals with a strong school system - like we once had, not too long ago. This does not mean hat I support adding a Pre-K. Unless I am convinced it will make the greatest difference and get us to point B, I will not be impressed. But, there may be other and better things they must do to get us the results that we need.
Rationalization may be the best way to more easily pay for these things - otherwise, we must think about other ways. Let's all research and brainstorm about this. Everything is on the table...facilities... administration...staffing...teaching methods...curriculem choices...etc. PEOPLE needs to get out to all their meetings and stand up and speak out. Don't wait for referendums and school board elections.
Improved schools is a critical element for moving the town in the right direction. Not doing so, plays into our opponents hands. There standards are much lower than ours, because anything we do here is a big improvement from what they had when they crossed over our borders.
Marc
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). He said greater then 80% of his students speak Spanish but are illiterate in Spanish. 
