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Post by Libyan Sibyl on Nov 8, 2006 16:25:19 GMT -5
I did not see or hear it, but rumor has it that, not only did he not wait until the concession of Kean, but it was in Spanish. I did not see anything in the papers about it. Any truth to the rumor?
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Post by admin on Nov 8, 2006 18:45:46 GMT -5
I did not see or hear it, but rumor has it that, not only did he not wait until the concession of Kean, but it was in Spanish. I did not see anything in the papers about it. Any truth to the rumor? I did not hear it myself, but the wife did report that this is true, about five minutes of his speech was in Spanish and Menendez did not wait for the call from Kean. Sounds like a good start |
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Post by Libyan Sibyl on Nov 8, 2006 20:05:05 GMT -5
Someone should tell him about the traditions of this country. Is he a legal citizen? Anyone check?
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Post by fedup on Nov 8, 2006 21:23:53 GMT -5
Someone should tell him about the traditions of this country. Is he a legal citizen? Anyone check?  The Senator was born in New York, IIRC. The implication the fluency in a second language and the desire to honor one's ethnic heritage preclude citizenship in the United States is truly grotesque... and if speaking briefly in Spanish at a political event is indicative of ignorance of "the customs of our country", then the Bush brothers (Jeb and W) are equally ignorant. |
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Post by Libyan Sibyl on Nov 8, 2006 22:25:04 GMT -5
I don't know. Which do you think is more grotesque: - your inability to understand a joke (his citizenship);  - your inability to recognize the national language.  - the inability of many of his Menedez's followers to melt with the rest of the melting pot.  - ignoring the custom of waiting for a concession before arrogantly giving an acceptance speech?  - a slavish devotion to multi-culturalism where any criticism of any other culture is met with a knee-jetk reaction questioning someone's intelligence or implying that the person is prejudiced or biased. Meanwhile criticism of American culture goes unquestioned and is often encouraged.  - or lastly, is it grotesque to use "emoticons" to express yourself  |
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Post by Marc LeVine on Nov 9, 2006 10:24:36 GMT -5
Sibyl:
I agree with you - Fully!! And, I agree with the following statement by Tom Wilson, chairman of the state Republican Party,
I'm not sure what the "message" was that Wilson is referring to. I suppose, it is the Dem's overall message about an exit strategy for Iraq. Speaking in Spanish? With all the bickering that went on between him and Kean, who really "understood" what either guy was saying about their platforms? Might as well have spoken in Swahili.
Apparently - we are stuck with Menendez for 6 years, unless the law catches up with him. Too bad for Darryl Brooks...
Marc
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Post by Libuan Sibyl on Nov 9, 2006 10:56:53 GMT -5
Just imagin if a newly elected leader decided to make his speech in German, Russian, French or Hebrew. You would hear something wouldn't you? But Spanish (from someone of central or south american descent) is sancrosanct.
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Post by Freehold Resident on Nov 9, 2006 11:24:33 GMT -5
>Just imagin if a newly elected leader decided to make his speech >in German, Russian, French or Hebrew. You would hear >something wouldn't you? But Spanish (from someone of central >or south american descent) is sancrosanct. You're setting up a straw man and applying a generalization. Just because he gave a tiny bit of his speech in Spanish does not mean that newly elected leaders are going to right away start speaking in completely different languages. It's like saying that if a Jewish leader greets his/her base by saying "Shalom," after saying "Hello," that they are going to immediately start speaking Hebrew, in full, at their speeches. It doesn't work that way.  F R |
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Post by Libyan Sibul on Nov 9, 2006 11:32:12 GMT -5
if Schwarzeneger spoke German at his acceptance speech how do you think it woul be taken?
As to the rest of your statements, you clearly did not understand what I was saying.
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Post by Freehold Resident on Nov 9, 2006 11:44:49 GMT -5
>if Schwarzeneger spoke German at his acceptance speech how >do you think it woul be taken?
>As to the rest of your statements, you clearly did not >understand what I was saying.
You are correct! And I still do not understand what you are trying to imply.
I guess what you are trying to say is that, we are somehow more accepting of Menendez (or someone) speaking Spanish at an event, rather than someone speaking another language, such as German.
And you are probably correct. But, also try to remember, America is neighboring a Spanish-speaking country, and also includes a large majority of Spanish-speaking citizens. America is not located next-door to Germany, so therefore, not only would German sound weird to most Americans, but it would also sound irrelevant, as there is not a large majority of German-speaking citizens here in America.
F R
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Post by Libyan Sibyl on Nov 9, 2006 11:53:58 GMT -5
48 Million Americans claim german heritage - that is more than Irish, English or Spanish. Why shouldn't an american speak some german at his acceptance speech. But it is verboten to imply what I have.
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Post by Freehold Resident on Nov 9, 2006 12:06:13 GMT -5
According to the Modern Language Association, the percentage of languages spoken at home in the US:
Spanish or Spanish Creole: 59.85%
German: 2.95%
But hey...let's not argue, shall we?
F R
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Post by Libyan Sibyl on Nov 9, 2006 12:15:41 GMT -5
You are right, and I am right (with our respective statistics).
But I was following your line of reasoning that Menendez had "the desire to honor one's ethnic heritage "
Anyway, the topic does not make much difference. I would prefer that citizens learn the English language, and that politicians, when speaking to their constituency, also speak the English language. You think he was honoring his heritage - while this is most likely true, I feel his was disrespctful to the rest of the state.
I don't care if people speak more than one language, taht was not my intention - good for them. I do have a problem that the first thing that he did as an elected official was perform two disrespectful acts. In this country, we expect victors to be gracious in their wins, which includes waiting for the concession. Therefore, I feel he did not act like a gentleman. And from what I see, I can expect more of the same.
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Post by Freehold Resident on Nov 9, 2006 12:24:53 GMT -5
Correct, we are both right.
And it is interesting to see how German-Americans are a such a large group, yet the language is barely spoken.
I believe it most likely has something to do with
A.) German-Americans have been around in America longer, so therefore have assimilated more than Hispanics.
B.) There is a stigma associated with the German language, because of the Holocaust.
But getting back to Menendez, he is not a very great politician, but this was merely an election of reform. It was to send a message to our current administration that most of us are very unhappy with them, and that they are not invincible.
The message to them was stronger than all of the politicians that really did not deserve to win. It's much easier to get rid of a corrupt Senator or Representative down the line, than to get rid of a corrupt government administration and President.
But just a little note: English is not the official language of America. America doesn't have an official language. Of course it can be assumed that it practically is, however, legally it is not.
Do you know what was said in Spanish by Menendez, anyway? I'd be curious to know. That can change the context of everything.
F R
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Post by Libyan Sibyl on Nov 9, 2006 14:11:09 GMT -5
Yes, I have read what Menendez has said, I have translated it. So it is really a literal translation, I may have missed some nuances. The followiing is an excerpt:
"finally, my brethren, we have achieved power that we have so long fought for. Phase one is to steal their jobs and bakrupt the country, Phase Two is to reclaim our lands through violence. Remember, do not go into action until you hear the code word. Then grab your pitchforks. Show no mercy to the human beinges, if they ask for it, let them ask their Maker."
I am not sure what he meant.
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Post by Marc LeVine on Nov 9, 2006 14:52:28 GMT -5
Your interpretation of Menendez's words are probably accurate. Here's how an (unarmed) area advocate recently debated me about our the illegal immigrants in FB:
"The community they/you see as a problem is not going anywhere -- we can wax moralistic all we want. Many of them have children and they are here to stay. As a matter of fact, 90 percent of the students in the borough schools are US citizens.
They are redefining our downtown. They are not some amorphous group of lawbreakers. They have a right to defend themselves in court or any legal way -- so as someone who is sympathetic to that community I see myself as speaking for the voiceless majority (perhaps a large voiceless minority). They came out of financial desperation lured by businesses and market forces -- Capitalism at its finest if you will.
It will take a decade or a little more but this community will eventually gain some political power in the borough -- whether you all like it or not. At that point, you will have no choice to bring them in in a more substantive way into the political process. For the time being since they are intimidated they either prefer not to voice objections or to work with people like me to get them a measure of fairness. They/we are not outsiders. They/we make up 40 percent of the borough -- they just cannot vote.
So as I see it -- we can all work together or continue to slug it out.
As a leader, you need to alert your followers when bickering serves no further purpose. But bicker, we will, if we must..."
These people (advocates) are almost blind to how the rest of America thinks. This person forgets that lawbreakers have no right to defend their wrongful actions. If they want to live here, they need to start out by being a little more humble and begin doing the right things (stop working off the books, begin paying payroll taxes, end the practice overcrowding, stop accepting free services, follow bicycle safety rules, etc.) until some sort of fair immigration reform comes their way. No demands, no threats. This IS NOT their country and the rules belong to us, until their status is changed. Only humble apologies and social/lawful compliance will be considered acceptable.
Marc
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Post by Marc LeVine on Nov 9, 2006 15:03:39 GMT -5
LOL - Freudian slip!!!
UN-NAMED.
Marc
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Post by Freehold Resident on Nov 9, 2006 15:24:54 GMT -5
>They/we make up 40 percent of the borough -- they just cannot vote.
Haha! That part is my favorite.
They cannot vote? Oh..I wonder why...
Maybe that explains the whole thing!
F R
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Post by admin on Nov 9, 2006 17:00:39 GMT -5
Your interpretation of Menendez's words are probably accurate. Here's how an (unarmed) area advocate recently debated me about our the illegal immigrants in FB: "The community they/you see as a problem is not going anywhere -- we can wax moralistic all we want. Many of them have children and they are here to stay. As a matter of fact, 90 percent of the students in the borough schools are US citizens.
They are redefining our downtown. They are not some amorphous group of lawbreakers. They have a right to defend themselves in court or any legal way -- so as someone who is sympathetic to that community I see myself as speaking for the voiceless majority (perhaps a large voiceless minority). They came out of financial desperation lured by businesses and market forces -- Capitalism at its finest if you will.
It will take a decade or a little more but this community will eventually gain some political power in the borough -- whether you all like it or not. At that point, you will have no choice to bring them in in a more substantive way into the political process. For the time being since they are intimidated they either prefer not to voice objections or to work with people like me to get them a measure of fairness. They/we are not outsiders. They/we make up 40 percent of the borough -- they just cannot vote.
So as I see it -- we can all work together or continue to slug it out.
As a leader, you need to alert your followers when bickering serves no further purpose. But bicker, we will, if we must..."These people (advocates) are almost blind to how the rest of America thinks. This person forgets that lawbreakers have no right to defend their wrongful actions. If they want to live here, they need to start out by being a little more humble and begin doing the right things (stop working off the books, begin paying payroll taxes, end the practice overcrowding, stop accepting free services, follow bicycle safety rules, etc.) until some sort of fair immigration reform comes their way. No demands, no threats. This IS NOT their country and the rules belong to us, until their status is changed. Only humble apologies and social/lawful compliance will be considered acceptable. Marc Whoever this person is that Marc quoted is right. Like it or not, the illegal movement is cleaning our clocks. With the backing of the ACLU, the negligence of the feds and the apathy of the citizenry, this person who speaks for the illegal minority sounds arrogant and is not wrong. On the federal level, the only place that showed any hope for positive change was the House of Reps. They will now change hands to the party most likely to grant amnesty, with Bush's help. Towns like Freehold had better think ahead. What will happen when all the illegals can vote? It is not far off. |
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Post by Guest on Nov 11, 2006 23:19:26 GMT -5
I'm so glad to see that you guys are on the decline and that true change is happening in Freehold Borough, hang-on to your suspenders you are in for a real nice ride. ;D. Change is here to stay and continue, and I will be enjoying myself watching you try to stop it.
Que les vaya bien!
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Post by Libyan Sibyl on Nov 13, 2006 10:06:36 GMT -5
Put it this way, when was the last time you heard an activist speaking out in town - last year after Marc's apppointment probably. The truth is, they don't have to speak out, march, etc. Guest is right, change is here to stay. Either climb on board or get run over.
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Post by John Galt on Nov 13, 2006 13:49:01 GMT -5
I'm so glad to see that you guys are on the decline and that true change is happening in Freehold Borough, hang-on to your suspenders you are in for a real nice ride. ;D. Change is here to stay and continue, and I will be enjoying myself watching you try to stop it. Que les vaya bien! Change! I am so very inspired by the events that have transpired as of recent. My Libertarian desires are being fulfilled ten-fold within your town! As some would say, survival of the fittest. Allow me to gloat. Selfishness is a virtue. The masses of people who are now in your midst, in what could be called a sub culture, are without doubt the strongest and most selfish. They have taken what they desire, with a strange marriage to socialists of all people! They have demonstrated not altruism or compassion, but pure and beautiful selfishness! That is born out of the need for survival. They understand that and move forward with a very focused intent. Of course, they can not do that without the help of the compassionate American. You give and they take, so simple, so pure. Fast forward five years. These now illegals in your midst will be voting. They will change and shape your town to their will, their needs. Change is not bad, it moves us along. Some of you hold on to the past, craving a small town environment, in gleeful celebration of your history. These now illegals are not looking back, but forward. Progress. Capitalism. Survival. Freehold will become an urban hub of life and zest, with a very different face than it has now. This is the way of humanity. The niche of small stores and apartments will satiate the thirst that many crave. New music! New events! New dishes to taste! So much to look forward to! Those of us surrounding your town will remain unaffected. We still have ours, and thanks to you we will still have our workforce, laborers, servants etc. We need to put them somewhere, and Freehold is delivering very nicely. We do not need your down town, we have route 9 with it's many wonderful shops and businesses. Compromise? Will never happen. You have a breed of people among you who provide so much inspiration. They have no need for compromise. They know what they want and they will get it. These are a strong, fresh and vibrant lot. They have survived by being focused, avoiding the self imposed obstacles that Americans have and doing what is in their best interests. It is not a tragedy. Change is coming and the future is here! |
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Post by Marc LeVine on Nov 13, 2006 14:33:19 GMT -5
After they take ours - they will come for yours...if you speak of this kind of change, then see it as continuous and with insatiable appetite (for what you have).
Sorry, what you are insinuating to be hopeless "surrender," many of us see as worthwhile challenge. I was in the South Bronx on Saturday...scary neighborhood...once. Remember, "Fort Apache with Paul Newman? No more. It's on the upswing.
Hoboken...Maplewood... Williamsburg (Brklyn). All turning around in a very nice direction - prosperity and nice living.
Life is cyclical and Freehold will continue to share in the spotlight with yours and the other propsperous towns in Western Monmouth County. This area is much too desirable for it to turn out any other way.
Artificial strip centers on Route 9 versus the borough's hometown downtown flavor? I don't think so...
Sorry to disappoint you.
Marc
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Post by Freehold Resident on Nov 13, 2006 16:36:08 GMT -5
Hmm..wow..
I never knew that Illegal immigrants had any rights....
They don't have the right to "shape" our town, because they did not go through the correct channels to become citizens, in the first place. When they become American citizens, then they can shape our towns, our cities, and our country. But until then, I do not think so.
As far as I am concerned, cart them all back to where they belong, and let them go through the correct channels.
I was researching moving to Canada a couple of months back. You have to go through a whole process to move there, but as far as I am concerned, that is fine with me. If I have to go through a process to become a Canadian citizen, there is no excuse for others...
F R
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Post by Libyan Sibyl on Nov 13, 2006 16:50:43 GMT -5
Freehold Resident - The word "Freehold" in your name, is that "Freehold, New Jersey" or "freehold" from some other planet?
Illegals have no rights? They just sued us, and won!
They are not shaping our towns, etc.? Are you kidding! Have you ever visited Freehold, NJ?
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Post by Freehold Resident on Nov 13, 2006 17:01:11 GMT -5
Sibyl,
I am not talking about what is happening.
I am talking about what SHOULD be happening.
F R
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Post by Marc LeVine on Nov 13, 2006 17:37:41 GMT -5
I, myself, have many questions about "this thing" before I vote on it, tonight. I am not happy that our federal courts see illegal immigrants as having the right to sue and prevail in American courts. In fact, I'm outraged over this.
I'm equally outraged that the federal courts would fail to consider the illegal status of these people when condoning that they use public land to seek illegal employment opportunities.
The settlement terms, themselves, aren't really that bad. We're not giving up very much of anything - regardless of how much gloating the plaintiffs wish to conduct in public. There was little gained by the plaintiffs, but much more gained by their attorneys. The advertised price tag for legal fees is probably all or in large part covered by our insurers - I want to verify this detail, tonight, ahead of the vote.
As for the $33K fund. I understand that the whereabouts of some of these folks may be unknown and some may not come forward to claim the money. Truthfully, though, most of the fines they did pay and are having returned were based on things the town is no longer doing, for one reason or another.
I do not expect anyone to be very happy with this conclusion (on principal), aside from the fact that it IS a conclusion that will allow us to move forward and put this unfortunate episode behind us.
Marc
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