Council Meeting 11/17/08

[admin]

www.app.com/article/20081119/NEWS01/811190334/1004/NEWS01

Downturn hits Freehold revenues hard

FREEHOLD — There may not be as much wealth to spread around next year, the borough administrator warned Monday.

"We're not in any deficit, but the revenue flow is less than anticipated," Administrator Joseph Bellina told the Borough Council.

It's too early to say how the revenue losses will affect the budget, Bellina said, though he did not rule out raising property taxes.

"Raising taxes is always a possibility," he said.

Building permit fees totaled $31,851 between January and October, compared to $44,838 in 2007. Certificates of occupancy have so far brought in about $30,000 less this year, a decline of almost 50 percent from last year, according to a spreadsheet provided at the council meeting.

Municipal court fines also have dropped about $134,000, a 25 percent decline from 2007's numbers.

The most significant loss has come from investments, which earned the borough $281,080 in 2007. So far this year, investments are down about 66 percent, according to Bellina's data.

"The investment part . . . it's a hard hitter," Bellina said.

The nation's troubled economy is partly to blame for the borough's difficulties, Bellina said. People are building less and not buying or selling homes as much. Other municipalities also are seeing their investments decline, he said.

"We don't stand alone on that (investment losses)," Bellina said.

Some revenue streams could see an uptick this year, however, including the payment in lieu of taxes agreement with the Rug Mill Towers apartment complex, he said. The payments are partly based on the percentage of occupancies, Bellina said.

Bellina's update comes as borough department heads are crafting their wish lists for the next year. Bellina plans to go over the requests in December and expects the Finance Committee to start meeting on the 2009 budget early next year.

[novillero]

I drive past the sign tonight. Haley Street is still "Haley Street," but there is an large sign a few feet away commemorating Rev. MacGuire's father. The real question is how did Haley Street get turned into a "boulevard"?

[admin]

Alright, it took me a couple of days, but here is a recap of the meeting this past Monday.

Public comments:

Most were directed at the Haley Street issue, as discussed in another thread.

A resident named Al, got up and praised the council and especially Shnurr, for improvements at the bus station. All mentioned that pot holes had been filled in and it was all looking better.

Community Information Committee Presentation:

Lisa Schofield from the CIC got up and gave a brief presentation on what the CIC has been working on since its beginnings this past year. This included updates on the status of the new town web site, the Resident Information packet and several press releases that the CIC worked on. The web site and packet are supposed to be ready very soon. Lisa also mentioned some volunteer initiatives that the CIC will be working on, hopefully with the Neighborhood Pride Committee. Councilman Sims, who is the CIC rep, brought a number of very good ideas to the table recently.

Community Job Fair

Councilman Le Vine brought this up. I don't have the greatest details from my notes, but if I recall, there will be an effort to bring a job fair here for our residents.

Historic Preservation Commission request

Le Vine also read a letter from the HPC asking the council to consider tax breaks for home owners in historic houses who fix them up and put work into them. None on the council endorsed the idea at this time because there are way too many details to work out. It is just open for consideration at this time. However, Councilman Schnurr did state that he is opposed to tax breaks for the rich and will not support this idea.

Revenue Analysis:

See article at the beginning of this thread.

Skate board ramps on private property

Shutzer discussed this. Apparently there is a home with skate board ramps on its property. I do not know what sparked this issue, but the discussion centered around regulating the ramps and possibly other recreation activities on private property.

Other odds and ends

The fire department is seeking a new truck.
borough hall is looking into replacing lighting that will save money in the long run. I believe Joe Bellina said it would pay for itself in two years.

The American Hotel has cleared up its financial issues and work is set to resume this week.

December 2 is the first meeting for the new rental board. ( and I will miss it! )

Renovations are set for the Drug Mill. This includes better security and new rugs,

In December, there will be Trolley rides in town. The dates can be found don the FCP web site and i will add them to the FV calendar.

The NPC is asking for commission status. Le Vine did mention a nice list of projects they are working on. One of them is the community garden that will be on Ford Street. There will be 20 plots.

[admin]

www.app.com/article/20081127/COMMUNITY/811270384/1285/LOCAL09

FREEHOLD — Two small, rectangular signs have caused a lot of trouble in this town.

What was meant as a goodwill gesture — an honorary street renaming in memory of a prominent pastor — caused an uproar for residents, several of whom protested the move at the Borough Council's meeting on Nov. 17.

"Leave that name the way it is. If you take that name away, you take a part of me," Jane Duckenfield said.

Some residents were not pleased when the signs suddenly appeared two weeks ago on tiny Haley Street, a two-block-long thoroughfare that boasts several homes and two churches.

Both signs state in bright white lettering, "Rev. Paul M. McGuire Blvd.," a nod to the former pastor of New Beginnings Agape Christian Center, which stands at the corner of Throckmorton and Haley streets.

Members of New Beginnings had petitioned the council to rename Haley Street in McGuire's honor, citing a long list of his contributions to the people of Freehold.

After establishing that Haley was a name with historical significance for Freehold, council members offered several alternate solutions. These included signs posted on the street adjacent to the existing street signs, Mayor Michael Wilson said.

Wilson ran the idea by New Beginnings and, without going back to the governing body, went ahead and ordered the signs, he said last week.

The mayor took full responsibility, both at the meeting and during an interview last week, for the error.

"The blame lies at my feet as mayor," Wilson told the residents.

"We were trying to do a good thing," he later added.

But the gesture backfired, causing confusion and — for some people — stirring up tensions between the church and its neighbors.

Residents were notified of the change, but some complained that their letters came after the signs were already installed, Wilson said. Others worried that the signs meant the street name itself would be changed, which Wilson assured residents had not been the plan.

"Please leave it Haley Street," said Diana Duckenfield of Throckmorton Street.

In a telephone interview after the meeting, Duckenfield said ill will toward New Beginnings goes back several years.

McGuire served as pastor of New Beginnings from 1977 to 1991, back in the days when the church was known as the Second Baptist Church. McGuire presided over the construction of the building that stands today, which replaced the congregation's original brick worship hall.

"That (expansion) was always a sore point. . . . Who knocks down a brick building, for Pete's sake?" Duckenfield said.

Duckenfield, a former member of Second Baptist who said she now worships at the Bethel A.M.E. church in town, protested to the council in 2000, when reports surfaced in the media that Second Baptist wanted to build a child care center, a Christian school, a senior living center and a homeless shelter on the area surrounding the church. Residents feared that the church planned to acquire residents' properties to achieve their goals.

Officials at Second Baptist tried to calm those fears by reassuring residents that they were not targeting properties that were not for sale.

But, said Duckenfield, "there's some bad history."

Reggie Sims, of Throckmorton Street, said at the meeting that though he is no longer a member, he grew up in the Bethel A.M.E. church. Located on Waterworks Road, the church still owns a church on Haley Street.

Some people thought Bethel's retired pastor, the Rev. Malcolm Steele, should have been consulted, Sims said. But New Beginnings took the initiative to petition the council, and now people at Bethel A.M.E. are in an uproar, Sims said.

The change could have been handled better, but Sims said he thought the move was good for the community.

"I don't see the issues with it," Sims said.

As of Nov. 20, the signs were still up, but Wilson said they might be taken down.

He also pledged to try to find a solution to the issue and said the matter will be discussed further with the governing body. Discussions with residents were a possibility, he said, and the governing body's options will be explored.

Kim Predham: [phone] or [e-mail]

[admin]

Nov 27, 2008 8:58:05 GMT -5 admin said:

www.app.com/article/20081127/COMMUNITY/811270384/1285/LOCAL09

FREEHOLD — Two small, rectangular signs have caused a lot of trouble in this town.

What was meant as a goodwill gesture — an honorary street renaming in memory of a prominent pastor — caused an uproar for residents, several of whom protested the move at the Borough Council's meeting on Nov. 17.

"Leave that name the way it is. If you take that name away, you take a part of me," Jane Duckenfield said.

Some residents were not pleased when the signs suddenly appeared two weeks ago on tiny Haley Street, a two-block-long thoroughfare that boasts several homes and two churches.

Both signs state in bright white lettering, "Rev. Paul M. McGuire Blvd.," a nod to the former pastor of New Beginnings Agape Christian Center, which stands at the corner of Throckmorton and Haley streets.

Members of New Beginnings had petitioned the council to rename Haley Street in McGuire's honor, citing a long list of his contributions to the people of Freehold.

After establishing that Haley was a name with historical significance for Freehold, council members offered several alternate solutions. These included signs posted on the street adjacent to the existing street signs, Mayor Michael Wilson said.

Wilson ran the idea by New Beginnings and, without going back to the governing body, went ahead and ordered the signs, he said last week.

The mayor took full responsibility, both at the meeting and during an interview last week, for the error.

"The blame lies at my feet as mayor," Wilson told the residents.

"We were trying to do a good thing," he later added.

But the gesture backfired, causing confusion and — for some people — stirring up tensions between the church and its neighbors.

Residents were notified of the change, but some complained that their letters came after the signs were already installed, Wilson said. Others worried that the signs meant the street name itself would be changed, which Wilson assured residents had not been the plan.

"Please leave it Haley Street," said Diana Duckenfield of Throckmorton Street.

In a telephone interview after the meeting, Duckenfield said ill will toward New Beginnings goes back several years.

McGuire served as pastor of New Beginnings from 1977 to 1991, back in the days when the church was known as the Second Baptist Church. McGuire presided over the construction of the building that stands today, which replaced the congregation's original brick worship hall.

"That (expansion) was always a sore point. . . . Who knocks down a brick building, for Pete's sake?" Duckenfield said.

Duckenfield, a former member of Second Baptist who said she now worships at the Bethel A.M.E. church in town, protested to the council in 2000, when reports surfaced in the media that Second Baptist wanted to build a child care center, a Christian school, a senior living center and a homeless shelter on the area surrounding the church. Residents feared that the church planned to acquire residents' properties to achieve their goals.

Officials at Second Baptist tried to calm those fears by reassuring residents that they were not targeting properties that were not for sale.

But, said Duckenfield, "there's some bad history."

Reggie Sims, of Throckmorton Street, said at the meeting that though he is no longer a member, he grew up in the Bethel A.M.E. church. Located on Waterworks Road, the church still owns a church on Haley Street.

Some people thought Bethel's retired pastor, the Rev. Malcolm Steele, should have been consulted, Sims said. But New Beginnings took the initiative to petition the council, and now people at Bethel A.M.E. are in an uproar, Sims said.

The change could have been handled better, but Sims said he thought the move was good for the community.

"I don't see the issues with it," Sims said.

As of Nov. 20, the signs were still up, but Wilson said they might be taken down.

He also pledged to try to find a solution to the issue and said the matter will be discussed further with the governing body. Discussions with residents were a possibility, he said, and the governing body's options will be explored.

Kim Predham: [phone] or [e-mail]

freeholdvoice.proboards46.com/index.cgi?board=mayorandtowncouncil&action=display&thread=4143

I still stand by my previous statements and applaud the Mayor for stepping up and taking responibility. I believe that by doing the right thing, a fair solution will be the result of the Haley street issue.

Again, kudos to the Mayor.

[novillero]

Uggh. what a sorry situation. I have to side with residents that don't want their street renamed. It would be interesting to learn sommething about Haley, who the street was named after. It seems that so little is now known of him that no one has even brought up that gentleman's first name.

I never knew Rev. MacGuire's father, and this is an unfortunate disservice to his memory. If the people who were in favor of re-naming the street probably knew that this would not be an easy sell, they would have better served the late Rev. MacGuire by not bringing up this issue.

As to the mayor's actions, I don't know, should he have known better? maybe, but in view of all this, I agree with Brian that he is taking the blame on his own shoulders (granted it is not the biggest issue to hit the borough).

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

[adefonzo]

Regarding Brian's synopsis of the council meeting above, there are a couple of things that jump out at me, and I am hoping to get some clarity from anyone that may know a bit more...

"Historic Preservation Commission request

Le Vine also read a letter from the HPC asking the council to consider tax breaks for home owners in historic houses who fix them up and put work into them." ...let's look past the fact that the timing on this was flat out horrible (talking about even the idea of giving tax breaks in the same meeting where they mention the possibility of property taxes being raised in the Boro - I would hope someone just filed that letter in the paper shredder)...whatever happened to the concept of keeping up with your home simply for pride of ownership? Why would we need to give money to people just to make their homes look good? Well, considering we have an all Democrat Council and Mayor, I really doubt we'll see any sort of tax breaks for anyone who's able to buy a home and fix it up to make it presentable. Though I don't necessarily agree with calling them "rich" as Mr Schnurr did, I'm glad to see that no one on the Council endorsed this idea.

"The fire department is seeking a new truck"...again...seems like poor timing to be talking about this when we're hearing about revenues coming in very short this year, and the possibility of taxes being raised. I'm no expert, but Fire trucks are expensive folks.

"Renovations are set for the Drug Mill. This includes better security and new rugs"...I'm just curious as to why this is being mentioned at a Town Council meeting? Was there mention of the fact that I am tearing down the wallpaper in my dining room and repainting the living room and hallway? What about my neighbor getting work done on her roof to fix a leak that has been an issue for a number of years now? Just wondering why this deserves mention...unless the Boro is somehow chipping in some money for these renovations, or if they are anticipating some sort of request for a lower PILOT payment because of these renovations? In which case, we shall be discussing this again, I am sure.

Skate board ramps on private property

Shutzer discussed this. Apparently there is a home with skate board ramps on its property. I do not know what sparked this issue, but the discussion centered around regulating the ramps and possibly other recreation activities on private property. ...had to save the best for last...this disturbed me GREATLY. I am hoping...PRAYING...that Brian may have misrepresented what was discussed. Please tell me the local government is not entertaining the notion of further regulating what I choose to do for recreation on my own private property!!

Where does it end folks?

[admin]

Nov 28, 2008 6:34:47 GMT -5 adefonzo said:

Regarding Brian's synopsis of the council meeting above, there are a couple of things that jump out at me, and I am hoping to get some clarity from anyone that may know a bit more...

"Historic Preservation Commission request

Le Vine also read a letter from the HPC asking the council to consider tax breaks for home owners in historic houses who fix them up and put work into them." ...let's look past the fact that the timing on this was flat out horrible (talking about even the idea of giving tax breaks in the same meeting where they mention the possibility of property taxes being raised in the Boro - I would hope someone just filed that letter in the paper shredder)...whatever happened to the concept of keeping up with your home simply for pride of ownership? Why would we need to give money to people just to make their homes look good? Well, considering we have an all Democrat Council and Mayor, I really doubt we'll see any sort of tax breaks for anyone who's able to buy a home and fix it up to make it presentable. Though I don't necessarily agree with calling them "rich" as Mr Schnurr did, I'm glad to see that no one on the Council endorsed this idea.?

Readers, before this gets twisted, remember that this is ONLY under consideration by the governing body. However, I will state that I believe that the council should aggressively pursue this idea. I say this as I put aside the need for tax decreases and the fiscal woes we may be facing. And I write this with the realization that there are many details to be hammered out before this is a viable program.

I believe Councilman Shnurr jumped the gun and really should not have been so quick to denounce this concept that the HPC has proposed. I think Shnurr blew it and did not think this through properly and I could;t disagree with him more.

First point that Shnurr missed. Many of the historic homes in question are ones that are owned by middle class people. Shnurr is affectively denying them needed tax relief and they do not deserve to be considered wealthy.

Second point, just applying this to the wealthy, is that such a bad thing to give them a break? To deny them and the middle class in our town reeks of class warfare and I cannot support that back wards approach. Our property tax system is class warfare, rob the middle and upper class to give to the poor. Not fair! If I am ever afforded the opportunity at a break, I do not want to hear that I do not deserve it from any politician. In schools alone, I pay way more than my fair share.

Now for the biggest reason I do support this concept. Our town has done a lot for low income people. From obscene amounts of RCA funding to the medical facility, we have done quite a bit. I will not argue against those things, but have to mention the obvious. We have created an imbalance in this town. It is well reflected in the fact that some of those historic homes are now in the hands of slumlords and are not being taken care of. That is creating urban blight. That is a reflection that the top end of the economic ladder in our town has been ignored fro far too long.

It is time for the governing body to aggressively address the real investors in this town. This program sounds good to me, it is far better than watching the wealthy flee this town. We need them. I don't know if this is the best idea, but it is a good start. Until something better comes along, I say bring it on. The middle and upper class in this town are long overdue.

Nov 28, 2008 6:34:47 GMT -5 adefonzo said:

"Renovations are set for the Drug Mill. This includes better security and new rugs"...I'm just curious as to why this is being mentioned at a Town Council meeting? Was there mention of the fact that I am tearing down the wallpaper in my dining room and repainting the living room and hallway? What about my neighbor getting work done on her roof to fix a leak that has been an issue for a number of years now? Just wondering why this deserves mention...unless the Boro is somehow chipping in some money for these renovations, or if they are anticipating some sort of request for a lower PILOT payment because of these renovations? In which case, we shall be discussing this again, I am sure.?

I think this is an attempt at showing a desire at turning the Drug Mill around. Sounds like a valiant effort to me, but it goes against the nature of the beast, it will always be a dump.

Nov 28, 2008 6:34:47 GMT -5 adefonzo said:

Skate board ramps on private property

Shutzer discussed this. Apparently there is a home with skate board ramps on its property. I do not know what sparked this issue, but the discussion centered around regulating the ramps and possibly other recreation activities on private property. ...had to save the best for last...this disturbed me GREATLY. I am hoping...PRAYING...that Brian may have misrepresented what was discussed. Please tell me the local government is not entertaining the notion of further regulating what I choose to do for recreation on my own private property!!

Where does it end folks?

There wasn't that many details given beyond what I wrote. I would like to hear more too. For now, I will continue to keep my chiminea hidden. ;D

[admin]

Nov 28, 2008 11:18:35 GMT -5 lisas84 said:

Can you all please make an effort to refrain from calling it "drug mill?" It's infantile. And one of my favorite elderly ladies lives there and I feel it is insulting to her.

Ouch! Admin spanked by the mod!

I assume you friend lives in the senior section. How does she like it? Is it a quality place to live?

While I am sure there are many quality people living there, the fact remains that there are plenty of complaints about this place. Most of us have heard plenty of bad things about the Drug Rug Mill. I am sorry for your friend, but that will never change. Again, it goes against the nature of the beast. In context of that, I believe that Drug Mill is a fitting. It is a reflection of the permanent blight our town will have to deal with.

[admin]

Nov 28, 2008 11:48:03 GMT -5 lisas84 said:

I'm sorry but I can't believe that this housing environment deserves such a negative moniker. Kathy is pretty content there, she has quite a few friends there and she has stated she feels pretty safe and has never encountered anything to scare her. I take her word.

I have to say, I can complain about this issue, I voted against the Drug Rug Mill. ( Meaning I voted against all incumbents the year I heard about the proposal)

Honestly, though, I do appreciate your feedback. It is not often that I hear good things about the place. Judging by what you write, it sounds like the senior side is doing good. I have heard quite a bit, from different sources, stating that the low income housing has been a nightmare. Some of that comes from the police department right underneath of it.

Here is the problem with low income areas. There are good people who move into such facilities out of genuine need. And it is nice to see something for them, to get them through a tough time. Eventually, those good people better themselves and move up and out. Given time, what happens is, the criminal or problem element is what stays. They can't or won't get out as easy. Eventually their numbers just increase making it harder to get and keep decent tenants.

I stand by the assertion that the Mill will never be a gem of the borough. Attaching a colorful moniker to it is simply being honest.

Would you move there?

[admin]

Nov 28, 2008 12:14:23 GMT -5 lisas84 said:

If I needed a low-income housing, sure I'd move there.

Excactly my point. Why not move there just to save money? If you ( a good person) did need the low inclome housing, of course you will take it. Once that need is no longer, you would be likely to get out and find something more desirable. Again, your positive input is good to hear.

[admin]

Nov 28, 2008 12:25:44 GMT -5 lisas84 said:

But just because it's low-income housing doesn't mean it's a drug mill. Throughout the state some are, indeed, I'm sure.

Alright, I cede. Just for you, I will not call it the Drug Mill. If others do, that is their choice.

[adefonzo]

alright...I'm going to toss out a grenade...

Lisa...didn't I read somewhere on this board that you were looking to perhaps finally move into the Boro?

In these tough economic times...we all need to look for ways to save some money...perhaps you should see if there are any apartments available in the Rug Mill apartments?? (give me a break...I don't think I have ever called them by that other name...though I can see the reason why some do)

[adefonzo]

Nov 28, 2008 10:48:04 GMT -5 admin said:

Readers, before this gets twisted, remember that this is ONLY under consideration by the governing body. However, I will state that I believe that the council should aggressively pursue this idea. I say this as I put aside the need for tax decreases and the fiscal woes we may be facing. And I write this with the realization that there are many details to be hammered out before this is a viable program.

I believe Councilman Shnurr jumped the gun and really should not have been so quick to denounce this concept that the HPC has proposed. I think Shnurr blew it and did not think this through properly and I could;t disagree with him more.

First point that Shnurr missed. Many of the historic homes in question are ones that are owned by middle class people. Shnurr is affectively denying them needed tax relief and they do not deserve to be considered wealthy.

Second point, just applying this to the wealthy, is that such a bad thing to give them a break? To deny them and the middle class in our town reeks of class warfare and I cannot support that back wards approach. Our property tax system is class warfare, rob the middle and upper class to give to the poor. Not fair! If I am ever afforded the opportunity at a break, I do not want to hear that I do not deserve it from any politician. In schools alone, I pay way more than my fair share.

Now for the biggest reason I do support this concept. Our town has done a lot for low income people. From obscene amounts of RCA funding to the medical facility, we have done quite a bit. I will not argue against those things, but have to mention the obvious. We have created an imbalance in this town. It is well reflected in the fact that some of those historic homes are now in the hands of slumlords and are not being taken care of. That is creating urban blight. That is a reflection that the top end of the economic ladder in our town has been ignored fro far too long.

It is time for the governing body to aggressively address the real investors in this town. This program sounds good to me, it is far better than watching the wealthy flee this town. We need them. I don't know if this is the best idea, but it is a good start. Until something better comes along, I say bring it on. The middle and upper class in this town are long overdue.

And just to make a statement on your response...I am all for tax breaks for the "middle class" and even the "rich", for many of the same reasons you stated above...

I was just pointing out that because of the timing of this announcement co-inciding with the message from Joe Bellina...I just think that if taxes are going to go up (which I would fight by trying to find cuts in the Boro's budget...and believe me, I could find some)...no one should be getting a break just yet...if they have to go up, better they go up across the board (because we all know this difference is never going to be made up by increasing the taxes on the "poor") than creating more problems in town (yes, this is coming from a so called "Republican")

[adefonzo]

Nov 19, 2008 16:47:32 GMT -5 admin said:

www.app.com/article/20081119/NEWS01/811190334/1004/NEWS01

Downturn hits Freehold revenues hard

FREEHOLD — There may not be as much wealth to spread around next year, the borough administrator warned Monday.

"We're not in any deficit, but the revenue flow is less than anticipated," Administrator Joseph Bellina told the Borough Council.

It's too early to say how the revenue losses will affect the budget, Bellina said, though he did not rule out raising property taxes.

"Raising taxes is always a possibility," he said.

Building permit fees totaled $31,851 between January and October, compared to $44,838 in 2007. Certificates of occupancy have so far brought in about $30,000 less this year, a decline of almost 50 percent from last year, according to a spreadsheet provided at the council meeting.

Municipal court fines also have dropped about $134,000, a 25 percent decline from 2007's numbers.
The most significant loss has come from investments, which earned the borough $281,080 in 2007. So far this year, investments are down about 66 percent, according to Bellina's data.

"The investment part . . . it's a hard hitter," Bellina said.

The nation's troubled economy is partly to blame for the borough's difficulties, Bellina said. People are building less and not buying or selling homes as much. Other municipalities also are seeing their investments decline, he said.

"We don't stand alone on that (investment losses)," Bellina said.

Some revenue streams could see an uptick this year, however, including the payment in lieu of taxes agreement with the Rug Mill Towers apartment complex, he said. The payments are partly based on the percentage of occupancies, Bellina said.

Bellina's update comes as borough department heads are crafting their wish lists for the next year. Bellina plans to go over the requests in December and expects the Finance Committee to start meeting on the 2009 budget early next year.

one last thing...hey, I'm on a roll...

due to the above highlighted statement...watch your a$$es folks...there might be some very strict enforcement of some rules coming up... ;D

Watch that chiminea, Brian...make sure your fences are the proper height if you have a pool, don't dare go anywhere in your car without your seatbelt on, and be sure to clear your sidewalks if it snows!!! (yes, the Boro actually went after folks on my street over this offense, albeit a number of years ago)

[admin]

Nov 28, 2008 15:30:58 GMT -5 adefonzo said:

(give me a break...I don't think I have ever called them by that other name...though I can see the reason why some do)

Actually, on this web site I think I am one of the few, if not the only person who has referred to the Rug Mill that way. So I think you are off the hook, Andrew. BTW, the site I originally saw it on also had a particpant who claimed to live there and really bad mouthed the day lights out of the complex. And the person calls himself...Rug. I suppose better than "Drug" ;D

[admin]

Nov 28, 2008 15:42:53 GMT -5 adefonzo said:

Nov 28, 2008 10:48:04 GMT -5 admin said:

Readers, before this gets twisted, remember that this is ONLY under consideration by the governing body. However, I will state that I believe that the council should aggressively pursue this idea. I say this as I put aside the need for tax decreases and the fiscal woes we may be facing. And I write this with the realization that there are many details to be hammered out before this is a viable program.

I believe Councilman Shnurr jumped the gun and really should not have been so quick to denounce this concept that the HPC has proposed. I think Shnurr blew it and did not think this through properly and I could;t disagree with him more.

First point that Shnurr missed. Many of the historic homes in question are ones that are owned by middle class people. Shnurr is affectively denying them needed tax relief and they do not deserve to be considered wealthy.

Second point, just applying this to the wealthy, is that such a bad thing to give them a break? To deny them and the middle class in our town reeks of class warfare and I cannot support that back wards approach. Our property tax system is class warfare, rob the middle and upper class to give to the poor. Not fair! If I am ever afforded the opportunity at a break, I do not want to hear that I do not deserve it from any politician. In schools alone, I pay way more than my fair share.

Now for the biggest reason I do support this concept. Our town has done a lot for low income people. From obscene amounts of RCA funding to the medical facility, we have done quite a bit. I will not argue against those things, but have to mention the obvious. We have created an imbalance in this town. It is well reflected in the fact that some of those historic homes are now in the hands of slumlords and are not being taken care of. That is creating urban blight. That is a reflection that the top end of the economic ladder in our town has been ignored fro far too long.

It is time for the governing body to aggressively address the real investors in this town. This program sounds good to me, it is far better than watching the wealthy flee this town. We need them. I don't know if this is the best idea, but it is a good start. Until something better comes along, I say bring it on. The middle and upper class in this town are long overdue.

And just to make a statement on your response...I am all for tax breaks for the "middle class" and even the "rich", for many of the same reasons you stated above...

I was just pointing out that because of the timing of this announcement co-inciding with the message from Joe Bellina...I just think that if taxes are going to go up (which I would fight by trying to find cuts in the Boro's budget...and believe me, I could find some)...no one should be getting a break just yet...if they have to go up, better they go up across the board (because we all know this difference is never going to be made up by increasing the taxes on the "poor") than creating more problems in town (yes, this is coming from a so called "Republican")

Andrew,

You are absolutely correct about the timing issue. I think for me it was just awfull the way Shnur was so quick to denounce doing something for the middle and upper class folks in our town.

I still like my idea of double taxing politicians, unions, and the poor. After all, they cost us the most.

[novillero]

There was a recent article about NYC increasing the number of tickets issued to increase their coffers.

[novillero]

Nov 28, 2008 6:34:47 GMT -5 adefonzo said:

Regarding Brian's synopsis of the council meeting above, there are a couple of things that jump out at me, and I am hoping to get some clarity from anyone that may know a bit more...

"Historic Preservation Commission request

Le Vine also read a letter from the HPC asking the council to consider tax breaks for home owners in historic houses who fix them up and put work into them." ...let's look past the fact that the timing on this was flat out horrible (talking about even the idea of giving tax breaks in the same meeting where they mention the possibility of property taxes being raised in the Boro - I would hope someone just filed that letter in the paper shredder)...whatever happened to the concept of keeping up with your home simply for pride of ownership? Why would we need to give money to people just to make their homes look good? Well, considering we have an all Democrat Council and Mayor, I really doubt we'll see any sort of tax breaks for anyone who's able to buy a home and fix it up to make it presentable. Though I don't necessarily agree with calling them "rich" as Mr Schnurr did, I'm glad to see that no one on the Council endorsed this idea.

"The fire department is seeking a new truck"...again...seems like poor timing to be talking about this when we're hearing about revenues coming in very short this year, and the possibility of taxes being raised. I'm no expert, but Fire trucks are expensive folks.

"Renovations are set for the Drug Mill. This includes better security and new rugs"...I'm just curious as to why this is being mentioned at a Town Council meeting? Was there mention of the fact that I am tearing down the wallpaper in my dining room and repainting the living room and hallway? What about my neighbor getting work done on her roof to fix a leak that has been an issue for a number of years now? Just wondering why this deserves mention...unless the Boro is somehow chipping in some money for these renovations, or if they are anticipating some sort of request for a lower PILOT payment because of these renovations? In which case, we shall be discussing this again, I am sure.

Skate board ramps on private property

Shutzer discussed this. Apparently there is a home with skate board ramps on its property. I do not know what sparked this issue, but the discussion centered around regulating the ramps and possibly other recreation activities on private property. ...had to save the best for last...this disturbed me GREATLY. I am hoping...PRAYING...that Brian may have misrepresented what was discussed. Please tell me the local government is not entertaining the notion of further regulating what I choose to do for recreation on my own private property!!

Where does it end folks?

I agree wholeheartedly. well, said.

[botaniseur]

Lisa, perhaps the reason that you are unaware of any continual drug busts at the drug mill is because the PD disbanded their street crimes unit after the "racial" incident that never went anywhere once the investigation was actually done and not tried in the papers. Thats why this town has a high crime rate and drugs available everywhere. Th council should stand up and demand this team of officers be put back on the street.The town will not also put these "dirty" crimes in the police blotter..who would move to a town with drug arrests in the weekly paper?