Take back the muster zones

[ka19]

People, there are many vociferous complaints about the illegal hiring of laborers at Freehold's muster zones. My understanding of the court battle that was fought resulted in an acknowledgment from the Boro that people have the right to assemble on public property, and the town would not interfere with this right.

For those people who are adamant about cleaning up the town from loiterers and illegal laborers, perhaps the most American and democratic way to fight back is to get a group of people to stand at muster zones with signs that say "YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW!!!" to make people soliciting illegal labor to think twice about saving a couple of bucks. Grab a camera and snap photographs of laborers getting into pickup trucks. This would at least call attention to the illegal activity that is taking place openly and notoriously in our town in broad daylight each and every day. Private citizens have every right in the world to do this.

I drive by a planned parenthood clinic every morning on my way to work, and, for the last 3 years, the same handful of people are outside hold up signs discouraging people from getting an abortion. Now whether or not you agree with their position, you must admire their commitment to what they believe in.

If we had some people like that in Freehold, the muster zones might clear up pretty quickly.

[admin]

Jul 30, 2008 9:18:03 GMT -5 ka19 said:

People, there are many vociferous complaints about the illegal hiring of laborers at Freehold's muster zones. My understanding of the court battle that was fought resulted in an acknowledgment from the Boro that people have the right to assemble on public property, and the town would not interfere with this right.

For those people who are adamant about cleaning up the town from loiterers and illegal laborers, perhaps the most American and democratic way to fight back is to get a group of people to stand at muster zones with signs that say "YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW!!!" to make people soliciting illegal labor to think twice about saving a couple of bucks. Grab a camera and snap photographs of laborers getting into pickup trucks. This would at least call attention to the illegal activity that is taking place openly and notoriously in our town in broad daylight each and every day. Private citizens have every right in the world to do this.

I drive by a planned parenthood clinic every morning on my way to work, and, for the last 3 years, the same handful of people are outside hold up signs discouraging people from getting an abortion. Now whether or not you agree with their position, you must admire their commitment to what they believe in.

If we had some people like that in Freehold, the muster zones might clear up pretty quickly.

Ka19,

You are full of good ideas today. Remind me to discuss this muster zone issue with you in person. I have my own ideas and your feedback would certainly have value.

AS far as people doing what you mention, I believe that has been tried by the PEOPLE group. The problem? That group no longer exists. Most of its membership have moved. ( I wonder, how many rentals took their place? )

I know this tactic is tried elsewhere, including in our county. I am not sure how well it really works.

[ka19]

Jul 30, 2008 14:54:24 GMT -5 admin said:

Jul 30, 2008 9:18:03 GMT -5 ka19 said:

People, there are many vociferous complaints about the illegal hiring of laborers at Freehold's muster zones. My understanding of the court battle that was fought resulted in an acknowledgment from the Boro that people have the right to assemble on public property, and the town would not interfere with this right.

For those people who are adamant about cleaning up the town from loiterers and illegal laborers, perhaps the most American and democratic way to fight back is to get a group of people to stand at muster zones with signs that say "YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW!!!" to make people soliciting illegal labor to think twice about saving a couple of bucks. Grab a camera and snap photographs of laborers getting into pickup trucks. This would at least call attention to the illegal activity that is taking place openly and notoriously in our town in broad daylight each and every day. Private citizens have every right in the world to do this.

I drive by a planned parenthood clinic every morning on my way to work, and, for the last 3 years, the same handful of people are outside hold up signs discouraging people from getting an abortion. Now whether or not you agree with their position, you must admire their commitment to what they believe in.

If we had some people like that in Freehold, the muster zones might clear up pretty quickly.

Ka19,

You are full of good ideas today. Remind me to discuss this muster zone issue with you in person. I have my own ideas and your feedback would certainly have value.

AS far as people doing what you mention, I believe that has been tried by the PEOPLE group. The problem? That group no longer exists. Most of its membership have moved. ( I wonder, how many rentals took their place? )

I know this tactic is tried elsewhere, including in our county. I am not sure how well it really works.

It's crazy that we have absolutely no power to prevent or punish illegal activity, especially where it is taking place openly in broad daylight with our collective faces being rubbed in it.

When the PEOPLE group did this in Freehold, did it work?

I'm interested in hearing your ideas on clearing the muster zones.

[admin]

When the PEOPLE group did this in Freehold, did it work?

Obviously not. That group no longer exists, the muster zone is all over our town, and the Latino Leadership Alliance is right on Main Street.

[ka19]

Here's another idea: The LLA or some other interested group should lease one of those empty office spaces on South Street and operate a daytime employment agency for day laborers, which would at least help them score higher wages through organization and placement and ensure the security of the workers. Maybe they can make a couple bucks too.

They way they are just strewn all over the streets is unacceptable. And I don't care if they are white brown yellow black or otherwise, citizen, non-citizen, illegal alien....it isn't the issue on this. It's disgraceful to see hundreds of people standing all over the place waiting to be picked up by a stranger for god knows what.

[admin]

Jul 30, 2008 16:14:23 GMT -5 ka19 said:

Here's another idea: The LLA or some other interested group should lease one of those empty office spaces on South Street and operate a daytime employment agency for day laborers, which would at least help them score higher wages through organization and placement and ensure the security of the workers. Maybe they can make a couple bucks too.

They way they are just strewn all over the streets is unacceptable. And I don't care if they are white brown yellow black or otherwise, citizen, non-citizen, illegal alien....it isn't the issue on this. It's disgraceful to see hundreds of people standing all over the place waiting to be picked up by a stranger for god knows what.

Interesting points. From what I understand, the muster zone, at least at one point, was organized to get a fair wage for the workers.

Here are some questions.

Why would anyone want to spend money when they can do what they want for free on the streets?

If a hiring hall was set up, would taxes get collected and employers be required to insure the workers?

If day laborers did not want to use the designated site, what is to stop them from pouring out to other streets?, which is what happened when the current muster zone turned into an invitation and caused a massive influx of illegals into our town. Remember, the governing body at the time sanctioned the idea, I believe at the very bad advice of the feds.

If the workers at a designated muster zone are requiring, say twelve dollars and hour, what is to stop some laborers from going else where and charging ten?

The discussions of a muster zone are ones that have to take place, either for or against. It is a topic that I believe will come back up for a number of reasons. I have plenty more to say on this subject, but will not do so until the time is right, with the right people and the right reasons,. I just don't want to show off the play book right now.

One thing I will say, the only way I will ever support a muster zone is if there is an ICE, DOL, and IRS office right next to it.

[admin]

PS

Your wrote:

They way they are just strewn all over the streets is unacceptable. And I don't care if they are white brown yellow black or otherwise, citizen, non-citizen, illegal alien....it isn't the issue on this. It's disgraceful to see hundreds of people standing all over the place waiting to be picked up by a stranger for god knows what.


You clearly get the picture that this is not a race issue etc. But, the second any person tried to do anything about the people standing all over, the advocates will paint that person as a bigot and use many foul words against them.

The PEOPLE group learned that the hard way and some were not prepared to deal with that.

[ka19]

All of these questions are tough ones. Unless we are able to enforce loitering ordinances, there will never be any acceptable result.

Every morning I drive through the downtown on my way to work, and whenever I look over at them, sure enough someone jumps up and motions toward me as if to tell me they are available.

It's like a red light district.

While the illegal immigration issue is related, and I support any legal measure that combats illegal immigration, I think our local need is to clean up the streets, first and foremost. That's why I think both sides of the issue should cooperate to organize an agency so it is done professionally and in a way that doesn't ruin this community, which will only increase animosity towards our immigrant population.

In this way, organizations like the LLA could do some actual good that earns them legitimacy as a partner in achieving a good solution in the eyes of the rest of the community.

[lisas84]

A major roadblock is that, I believe, NJ allows loitering; it is no longer illegal, even if the loiterer is illegal!

[fiberisgoodforyou]

Jul 30, 2008 16:14:23 GMT -5 ka19 said:

Here's another idea: The LLA or some other interested group should lease one of those empty office spaces on South Street and operate a daytime employment agency for day laborers, which would at least help them score higher wages through organization and placement and ensure the security of the workers. Maybe they can make a couple bucks too.

They way they are just strewn all over the streets is unacceptable. And I don't care if they are white brown yellow black or otherwise, citizen, non-citizen, illegal alien....it isn't the issue on this. It's disgraceful to see hundreds of people standing all over the place waiting to be picked up by a stranger for god knows what.

First, the advocacy group would expect a landlord to donate the space!

To the point, what you describes as a hiring hall, is what most would call, the workforce NJ of department of labor office. This is were employers and laborer's wishing to be employed go to "find each other". So you see ka19, what you suggest already exists for the honest employers who care to indulge in hiring legal, I-9 e-verifiable workers.

Key word is "Honest" employers.

Now ka-19, would you start a movment to boycott business who knowingly hire unverifiable illegal aliens? How about restaurants too, but then were would you go out to eat?

[fiberisgoodforyou]

Jul 30, 2008 17:16:08 GMT -5 lisas84 said:

A major roadblock is that, I believe, NJ allows loitering; it is no longer illegal, even if the loiterer is illegal!

Loitering has nothing little to do with it, the advocates have been successful using the first amendment right to free speech. Every person has the right to ask for work any where at any time is what they claim.

before people rehash what has been tried before, PLEASE go back to the NT, the APP and other media sources to learn whats been tried, whats worked and what has not worked!

Here is a spin on this right to ask for work any where at any time. To ask for work, by not declaring your ineligibility (then who would hire your right?) you imply youre eligible to work, and very much and with fully intention, are being deceitful thus culpable for willingly committing a crime by violating Federal and state Laobor laws (like I-9).

Sure you have a first amendment right to Freedom of Speech, but you do NOT have the freedom THROUGH speech to be willfully deceitful (I would think). IMHO!

Again, we have the simple, basic notion that Honest employers seek honest employees!

[misterpr1981]

So, Ted, you've clarified the differences in the verbiage and the nuances of how they're getting away with it.

But, I ask you, as someone running for a town council seat, how you are prepared to solve the problem legally, if you are elected into office?

[ka19]

Jul 30, 2008 18:55:11 GMT -5 misterpr1981 said:

So, Ted, you've clarified the differences in the verbiage and the nuances of how they're getting away with it.

But, I ask you, as someone running for a town council seat, how you are prepared to solve the problem legally, if you are elected into office?

I second that.

What is your approach to the problem, Fiber? You would win my vote if you convince me that you are a problem solver.

[ka19]

Jul 30, 2008 17:25:07 GMT -5 fiberisgoodforyou said:

Jul 30, 2008 16:14:23 GMT -5 ka19 said:

Here's another idea: The LLA or some other interested group should lease one of those empty office spaces on South Street and operate a daytime employment agency for day laborers, which would at least help them score higher wages through organization and placement and ensure the security of the workers. Maybe they can make a couple bucks too.

They way they are just strewn all over the streets is unacceptable. And I don't care if they are white brown yellow black or otherwise, citizen, non-citizen, illegal alien....it isn't the issue on this. It's disgraceful to see hundreds of people standing all over the place waiting to be picked up by a stranger for god knows what.

First, the advocacy group would expect a landlord to donate the space!

To the point, what you describes as a hiring hall, is what most would call, the workforce NJ of department of labor office. This is were employers and laborer's wishing to be employed go to "find each other". So you see ka19, what you suggest already exists for the honest employers who care to indulge in hiring legal, I-9 e-verifiable workers.

Key word is "Honest" employers.

Now ka-19, would you start a movment to boycott business who knowingly hire unverifiable illegal aliens? How about restaurants too, but then were would you go out to eat?

I would not boycott a restaurant for hiring illegals. While illegal immigration is an important issue to me, I always felt that the problem's solution must be engineered in Washington, not in Freehold Boro.

My problem is with open and notorious illegal activity that takes place in broad daylight every day in our town. We know who the offenders are. We know where they operate. Yet, we have failed to find a solution, allowing our downtown to descend into a red light district, of sorts.

After much thought, I have concluded that Freehold's approach has been too macho. Too 'all or nothing.'

While we should not attempt to solve the nation's illegal immigration crises, we can try to move it out of sight. And for that goal, we need partners, not adversaries.

All the while, you should keep yourself well-fed by any of the Boro's restaurants, since hurting those restaurants only hurts us in the end.

[admin]

Jul 30, 2008 17:07:27 GMT -5 ka19 said:

All of these questions are tough ones. Unless we are able to enforce loitering ordinances, there will never be any acceptable result.

Every morning I drive through the downtown on my way to work, and whenever I look over at them, sure enough someone jumps up and motions toward me as if to tell me they are available.

It's like a red light district.

While the illegal immigration issue is related, and I support any legal measure that combats illegal immigration, I think our local need is to clean up the streets, first and foremost. That's why I think both sides of the issue should cooperate to organize an agency so it is done professionally and in a way that doesn't ruin this community, which will only increase animosity toward our immigrant population.

In this way, organizations like the LLA could do some actual good that earns them legitimacy as a partner in achieving a good solution in the eyes of the rest of the community.

First, Why should anyone be concerned with the LLA earning legitimacy? Considering their track record, I doubt there could be any value in even waiting for that. I have said before, if this town is to move forward in a good way, it will be without Casa Freehold or the LLA. There are news paper articles posted on this site which back me up on that.

Second, I do not believe it would be at all wise to sanction a muster zone or hiring hall of any kind. It reeks of sanctuary and it is nothing more than a magnet/invitation for more illegals to pile into town. Considering we are still fighting an uphill battle with the rental issue and our schools are over crowded, the last thing we need it to invite more people who do not pay their fair share. That is a matter of economics and numbers. The first sanctioning of a muster zone is what got us where we are today. Are we prepared to haphazardly make that same mistake and actually believe the outcome will be any different?

Ka19, you bring up many good points, I am not dismissing your concerns. We will have to deal with these issues at some point in this town. The other issue we will have to deal with is engaging the illegal alien population among us. Can this small town move forward divided?

This town is at a standstill right now. All of the above will have to be addressed. I believe the muster zone dialog will come about because of concerns from residents and business owners. I also have plenty of opinion and ideas about the above, but now is not the time for that discussion. As mentioned, it is not wise to open the play book for all to see.

[admin]

Jul 30, 2008 19:23:55 GMT -5 ka19 said:

Jul 30, 2008 17:25:07 GMT -5 fiberisgoodforyou said:

After much thought, I have concluded that Freehold's approach has been too macho. Too 'all or nothing.'

Some would say just the opposite and the case could be made that the governing body has actually aggravated and invited the problems we have now. I will be a good boy and leave that one alone for now.

[fiberisgoodforyou]

Jul 30, 2008 19:23:55 GMT -5 ka19 said:

All the while, you should keep yourself well-fed by any of the Boro's restaurants, since hurting those restaurants only hurts us in the end.

Who said anything about BORO restaurants? Have you dinned around RT 9, Philly, NYC, DC, Miami. Ka-19, how do you see these people solicit for employment, whats your solution?

What is most unfortunate is that sustained conditions allow for this illegal labor pool to prosper.

I would hope others will follow.... E-Verify is coming up for a vote in Congress I called my congressman telling him that I support E-Verify and that I expect him vote in favor of it, no strings attached!

The telephone number for the US Congress is 202-224-3121 and their website is www.house.gov.

We have to keep the pressure on!

Here are your talking points when you call

* E-Verify must be reauthorized NOW—NO STRINGS ATTACHED!
* E-Verify is the most effective program available for ensuring our workforce is legal and combating illegal immigration.
* To immediately take all steps necessary to reauthorize E-Verify for at least 10 years-- if not more.
* That they reject any attempts by any members to add special interest language to the reauthorization bill.

Leadership Phone Numbers:

Senate Majority Leader, Harry Reid (D-NV) [phone]
Senate Minority Leader, Mitch McConnell (R-KY) [phone]
House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) [phone]
House Minority Leader, John Boehner (R-OH) [phone]


ALSO..tie Lautenberg to Menendez, ARE OUR NJ Senators both anti jobs for Americans! Challenge Lautneberg to challenge his Senate colleague(s) to do the right thing, let him know that he will lose your vote is he does not challenge his Senate colleague(s)

Job preservation and wage preservation are what we expect from stand up leaders we sent to DC representing constituents interests in the US Senate. Upholding the law, not holding up the passage of laws in support of special interest over support of constituents!

The Law... 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act Amendments...Labor Certification: it required that the Secretary of labor certify that an alien attempting to enter as a worker would not replace a worker in the U.S. or adversely influence either the wages or working condition.

[bergsteiger]

Jul 30, 2008 19:23:55 GMT -5 ka19 said:

Jul 30, 2008 17:25:07 GMT -5 fiberisgoodforyou said:

First, the advocacy group would expect a landlord to donate the space!

To the point, what you describes as a hiring hall, is what most would call, the workforce NJ of department of labor office. This is were employers and laborer's wishing to be employed go to "find each other". So you see ka19, what you suggest already exists for the honest employers who care to indulge in hiring legal, I-9 e-verifiable workers.

Key word is "Honest" employers.

Now ka-19, would you start a movment to boycott business who knowingly hire unverifiable illegal aliens? How about restaurants too, but then were would you go out to eat?

I would not boycott a restaurant for hiring illegals. While illegal immigration is an important issue to me, I always felt that the problem's solution must be engineered in Washington, not in Freehold Boro.

My problem is with open and notorious illegal activity that takes place in broad daylight every day in our town. We know who the offenders are. We know where they operate. Yet, we have failed to find a solution, allowing our downtown to descend into a red light district, of sorts.

After much thought, I have concluded that Freehold's approach has been too macho. Too 'all or nothing.'

While we should not attempt to solve the nation's illegal immigration crises, we can try to move it out of sight. And for that goal, we need partners, not adversaries.

All the while, you should keep yourself well-fed by any of the Boro's restaurants, since hurting those restaurants only hurts us in the end.

With such a strong dislike for illegal activity, why would you not boycott a restaurant for hiring illegal Aliens? In fact, boycott all businesses that hire illegal Aliens.

It’s not just a Washington problem. It’s everyone’s problem. You included.

I manage to get by without using Illegal Aliens.

[ka19]

Jul 31, 2008 6:18:01 GMT -5 bergsteiger said:

Jul 30, 2008 19:23:55 GMT -5 ka19 said:

I would not boycott a restaurant for hiring illegals. While illegal immigration is an important issue to me, I always felt that the problem's solution must be engineered in Washington, not in Freehold Boro.

My problem is with open and notorious illegal activity that takes place in broad daylight every day in our town. We know who the offenders are. We know where they operate. Yet, we have failed to find a solution, allowing our downtown to descend into a red light district, of sorts.

After much thought, I have concluded that Freehold's approach has been too macho. Too 'all or nothing.'

While we should not attempt to solve the nation's illegal immigration crises, we can try to move it out of sight. And for that goal, we need partners, not adversaries.

All the while, you should keep yourself well-fed by any of the Boro's restaurants, since hurting those restaurants only hurts us in the end.

With such a strong dislike for illegal activity, why would you not boycott a restaurant for hiring illegal Aliens? In fact, boycott all businesses that hire illegal Aliens.

It’s not just a Washington problem. It’s everyone’s problem. You included.

I manage to get by without using Illegal Aliens.

Unless you are a self-reliant shut-in, I suspect that is untrue. As someone who worked as a waiter in a number of different restaurants to help put me through college and law school, I can tell you first hand that you wouldn't be hard pressed to find a restaurant that would at least raise serious suspicions as to the legal status of those washing the dishes.

I agree with you that it is an everyone problem, but the solution can only be engineered in Washington. A Freehold Boro citizens restaurant boycott isn't going to do anything other than put our downtown out of business, cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Please hear me correctly: I am no boyscout preaching about legal/illegal. We have prostitution, drug use, illegal gambling and other "vice crimes" all over this country. Truthfully, I can sleep at night, even though I know it takes place discretely all over the place. But the second these activities start taking place openly on the streets of my town, now I have a problem.