BOE Meeting 10/9/07

[admin]

I received an email informing me of the following


The BOE is having a 30 mintute Q&A for the public with our new school board attorney at our TUESDAY Oct 9th BOE meeting.

[admin]

This meeting is at the Freehold Learning center @ 7 PM, not at Park Ave where it usually is.

[andrewd]

Just a reminder to everyone...this meeting is on TUESDAY NIGHT (as Brian said above) and it is at the FREEHOLD LEARNING CENTER (as he also mentioned above). Meeting time is 7pm as always.

Yes, the new Board attorney will be there to answer questions from the public, but I would ask that anyone with a question be sure to ask a question...not a question with 15 back-up questions...we want to be sure that everyone who has a question has the opportunity to ask it. If the opportunity presents itself to follow up after everyone else has asked their questions, then by all means, ask away. I just do not want to have the entire session dominated by one or two people if there are many who would like to have questions answered.

If anyone has any questions...feel free to contact me...([e-mail])

[andrewd]

Just a couple of notes on tomorrow nights meeting...

As you already know the new board attorney Matt Giacobbe will be there to give a brief presentation and to take questions.

Also on the agenda

...the approval of a Residency/Attendance officer (who is also scheduled to be at the meeting)
...the first reading of board policies on family/medical leave (new policy) and conduct discipline (an update of existing policy)
...acceptance of a donation of 10 Little Tikes Young Explorer Learning Computers from IBM for the Pre-school
...a number of other staff and business related items

We are also hoping to have a small presentation on the way in which we were able to hold student government elections in FIS just last week...still trying to put this together.

It should be a very informative meeting...as always I encourage all to attend.

[glow=yellow,2,300]Tuesday night, October 9th at 7pm at the Freehold Learning Center[/glow]

[admin]

I wanted to go to this meeting but was stuck at work. Does anybody have anything of interest to report about the meeting?

[andrewd]

As I switch hats, let me give out some info on the other nights meeting...

First let me thank those who were in attendance. I will be very honest, I was disappointed at the turnout (as I usually am) but those who were there certainly picked (in my opinion) an interesting meeting to show up to. Jaye Simms (our Town Council liaison) was there at the beginning of the meeting, but I believe he had to leave early, as I did not see him there when we introduced our new residency officer...not sure of the reason for his leaving.

The big event of the night, the new BOE attorney, Matt Giacobbe, was at the meeting to give us an update on what's new in school law and legislation. One of the benefits of Matt's firm is that they send out updates every time there is a court decision, or other legislation that will effect our schools. This night, he brought with him information on a couple of recent cases which will effect policies and practices that the BOE will have to address in the very near future.

The first case dealt with a school's responsibility to notify parents when there are early dismissals, and now we are apparently responsible to ensure that a parent or guardian will be home to accept the child if they are walking home, or provide a safe and secure place for the child to stay at until such time as the parent can be notified.

The second deals with bullying in the schools. With the recent decision in this case (L.W. v. Toms River Regional Schools Board of Education) school districts are being held more responsible to be proactive when there are instances of bullying in schools. From what I gathered, schools are going to have to make sure we are doing all we can to let children know that they should go to their teachers, administrators, or other school employees when they are being bullied, whether it is in school, or on their way to and from school. We are also going to have to have steps in place to deal with those who are doing the bullying. One of the other items on last nights agenda was a first reading of the District's updated Conduct/Discipline policy, which takes into account this new information.

We then allowed BOE members to question Matt about any issues that they may have been thinking of.

The idea of suing the state for flat funding over the last 5 years was brought up (as it was with our previous attorney). Matt advised us to hold out for a little bit, as he very recently argued before a federal court on behalf of another district that he represents, regarding the same issue. He told us that arguing this in a state court was a waste of time and money, which is why his firm crafted an argument that could be brought before a Federal Court. You'll have to forgive me as I do not have my notes in front of me from the other night, so I can't really get into the details of the argument they made, except to say that he somehow tied it to the ever famous Brown vs The Board of Ed case from the civil rights days.

The question was then asked about the new Residency/Attendance officer that was on the agenda for that night, and what steps we should be sure to take in order to ensure that we basically have all of our ducks in a row should we be able to bring a case against any students regarding their being "domiciled" in our town. In essence, he told us that the most important issue will be to have a substantial amount of evidence, as the Department of Education (who are the ones who will hear such cases) will almost always decide on the side of keeping the child in school - even if it has to be ours. The most important person in our case will be our Residency officer and his testimony (along with the evidence he has gathered), so I was very happy to see that we have been able to hire a retiring detective from the Freehold Twp. Police, Don Swinarski, who (though I only met him that night) seems to be a very capable person for the job.

Then came the question of challenging Plyler vs Doe. First of all, Matt let us know that the current make up of the court may not help someone (in his opinion) as much as we may have thought. He then went on to mention the many steps we would have to go through just to get a certiorari before the court (as Richard Kelsey has outlined before). He too mentioned that we would likely lose in the lower courts since they would likely defer to the precedent set by Plyler vs Doe.

The big problem that I see after hearing from Matt was that the likelihood of the Supreme Court even picking up our case is not very good. The court only selects around 100 cases per year, and there would likely be other cases that would be considered more important than ours. And of course, he mentioned the very large costs that would be involved in such a case (and were we to lose, not only would we be paying for our own attorney fees, but likely those of the parties that bring the suit against us).

Since Tuesday night, I have keep digging on this particular topic, as it is one I feel could still be explored. Richard Kelsey mentioned some time ago that he may know of counsel that would take up this cause pro bono (which would obviously help a great deal). The idea was tossed out the other night about the possibility of some not for profit organizations that may want to assist in this type of case (though the danger there is such a group looking out for their own political agenda rather than the case itself). These are all possibilities, but more importantly, I think we need to look into ways to better the odds of the Supreme Court picking up this case.

Freehold Boro alone stands about as much chance as a lit match in a hurricane, but if there are a number of other districts that we could join with...preferably a number of other districts in different states (though I don' know the legalities of that), I think the odds would increase drastically. So this is something I will be looking into over the next week or so and I'll bring what I find to the BOE.

Another issue that was raised was what responsibility the school may have to notify the proper authorities if they know of a child living in an overcrowded home (assuming that such a condition would be a form of abuse to the child). This is a touchy legal area, from what I gathered. The District can not report if we see that 20 children are all listing the same address as their home as a way to have the town look into overcrowding in that home...we are not allowed to get involved with housing code violations. If the District notices that a child is appearing to be malnourished, not properly clothed, or in any way physically abused, we have a responsibility to report it...but we can not assume that just because there are a number of children listed at a particular residence, that it is automatically an abusive environment.

However, noticing that there are a large number of children listed at a particular residence can be something that our newly appointed Residency officer can look into in order to verify that all of those children do in fact live at that residence.

I know it almost sounds like I am talking in circles...but unfortunately, that's the way the legal system works. Personally, I am very happy that we now have an official officer of the district that can look into residency issues...this is a very positive step in the right direction...and I am very hopeful that it is only a first of many steps. (now I am sounding like a politician!!! for shame!!!)

In case you are curious, the new representative from the New Jersey School Boards Association for our district, Diane Morris, was also at the meeting and introduced herself.

Aside from that, it was pretty much business as usual...check out the agenda (http://boe.freeholdboro.k12.nj.us/Board%20Agendas/100907agenda.pdf) if you'd like to get all the details from the meeting.

If anyone has any other questions or topics of discussion, let me know.

[fiberisgoodforyou]

andrewd said:

Another issue that was raised was what responsibility the school may have to notify the proper authorities if they know of a child living in an overcrowded home (assuming that such a condition would be a form of abuse to the child). This is a touchy legal area, from what I gathered. The District can not report if we see that 20 children are all listing the same address as their home as a way to have the town look into overcrowding in that home...we are not allowed to get involved with housing code violations. If the District notices that a child is appearing to be malnourished, not properly clothed, or in any way physically abused, we have a responsibility to report it...but we can not assume that just because there are a number of children listed at a particular residence, that it is automatically an abusive environment.

However, noticing that there are a large number of children listed at a particular residence can be something that our newly appointed Residency officer can look into in order to verify that all of those children do in fact live at that residence.

I know it almost sounds like I am talking in circles...but unfortunately, that's the way the legal system works. Personally, I am very happy that we now have an official officer of the district that can look into residency issues...this is a very positive step in the right direction...and I am very hopeful that it is only a first of many steps. (now I am sounding like a politician!!! for shame!!!)
.

I raised this question on Tuesday. I stipulated that IF this condition existed and there was a tragic house fire, a community can suggest that the school did have knowledge of the serious overcrowding of the domicile, so why would the school not take appropriate remedial legal action upon knowledge of such conditions.

Key here is PROPER Legal actions. Reporting to code enforcement is not, under the law (state or federal??), an appropriate legal action, however reporting these conditions to the Division of Child and Family services might be the legal path to take.

If the overcrowding can be clearly proven, and the children living in said overcrowded conditions are serious enough that it IS evident that child are subjected to abuse through these living conditions, then and only then it can be appropriate and necessary to report these conditions to DFS. IMO, this is an avenue that must be examined by legal professionals for consideration and implementation.

[admin]

Andrew,

Thank you, that was a very good response. I would have been there if I could.

[adefonzo]

Fiber...your point is well taken, and understood...I will look into this further with the Board attorney as well as the legal division on the NJSBA. When I get more information...I'll let everyone know.

[casualreader]

Board Member DeFonzo Dude:

Thank you for the words of welcome the other day upon my return from unjust exile administered by the tyrant I affectionately refer to as Brian dude.

But, I want to tell you that I disagree with what you and Fibber/Miller dude are trying to do. I disagree on humanitarian terms and I disagree in terms of its impact on the borough.

On the humanitarian side, i think it is wrong to try and deny children living among us an education -- whether they have documents or not. Ignorance will only breed violence and desperation. I understand the desire to get at the immigration issue particularly the status of the parents -- but using the children to do it is CONTEMPTIBLE.

Not to mention the fact that most of the children in the district (as you have told us) are born in the USA. Therefore, they are entitled to an education. You sitting in your home in Freehold expect to change the citizenship criteria?

Fibber/Miller wants to use the excuse of concern for overcrowded housing not because he cares about the Hispanic children but because he wants to drive them out of the school system. The lack of sincerity of his argument is clear to anyone hearing/reading it.

As for its impact on the borough -- it will be enormous. It is obvious the town is being watched by advocates from across the state and, if the Latino festival is any indication, the hispanics are very organized. So, your proposals will most likely be met with fierce opposition once they realize what you are doing.

I must smile when I read here sometimes (and no I am not a member of LLA or Casa Freehold) that the advocates and Hispanics have caused harm to the town.

It seems like many of you spend a lot of your time looking for ways to pick fights with them. Negotiations and discussions do not interest you only division.

Casually in Disbelief

[richardkelsey]

Andrew -- great substantive update.

Then came the question of challenging Plyler vs Doe. First of all, Matt let us know that the current make up of the court may not help someone (in his opinion) as much as we may have thought. He then went on to mention the many steps we would have to go through just to get a certiorari before the court (as Richard Kelsey has outlined before). He too mentioned that we would likely lose in the lower courts since they would likely defer to the precedent set by Plyler vs Doe.

I also believe that New Jersey would have an additional burden in overturning Plyler. That is -- there is a state law that mirrors Plyler. This means that the action could be challenged by a smart plaintiff in state court -- which means the National issue may never get taken.

I'd have to look at the state law more carefully -- but that is my initial impression. In addition, no one wants to challenge Plyler in a Federal Circuit in the Northeast -- where radical liberal activist Judges will not be sympathetic.

Plyler dies on a challenge out of one or more southern circuits. From there -- a strong Circuit will set the stage for certiorari by upholding Plyler but writing a stinging dissent outlining the Court's displeasure for its legal principles.

[fbrepublican]

Casual reader,

You would do well to make nice with Mr. Miller and stop twisting what he wants to accomplish for this town. He will be your next councilman.

[casualreader]

FBRepublican:

If he is going to be my next councilman then he should be prepared for honest criticism not a-- kissing.

What he suggested in his post is disgraceful. What he is trying to do is use the immigrants as whipping boys to get all of you in a frenzy. He wants to prove he can be tougher on the immigrants than the incumbents -- That is all he has as an issue. He is a one issue wonder heading into oblivion.

I do not really care who wins because I see little positive with either side -- but I will send you a $50 gift certificate to the Metropolitan if Fibber wins. You can privately send me an email with your address the day after election.

Will you send me a $50 gift certificate to the restaurant of my choice when Sims and Kane beat his brains in?

Casually Las Vegas

[pricewepay]

casual reader 287 does not apply to immigrants, only illegal immigrants. Don't confuse the two. This country has a proud record of accepting legal immigrants. You seem to have a problem with using the correct terms. If you believe in open borders, be up front and state that's your belief. If you think that the influx of illegals into Freehold has not created enornmous problems, take a look at the Borough schools. Don't know if know anything about the schools, but maybe you should . You could also take a page out of Baldwin's book, he's all for the illegals, but when it came time to pay for them to attend the schools, he was outspoken in his opposition to raising the school budget, because it would raise his taxes. Not sure how those who think illegal immigration is fine, expect to pay the cost involved. The schools are only a small part of the problem. But when ever you mention these issues, you get called all types of name.

[casualreader]

PriceWePay:

I was talking about Fibber's position with regards to having the borough schools check on their homes for "overcrowding" because he really loves the Hispanic children and wants them safe. When I read that I almost choked on my taco. I have been reading his posts for many months -- the only immigrant he likes is one that is moving out.

Also, the children he and Board Member DeFonzo dude want to force out of the schools -- they were born in the USA. They are citizens like you (although I have not seen proof of residency from either you or Reyes).

I was not referring to 287G. I am still learning about that program, but you know if Fibber/Miller is behind it it must be against the Mexicans. Fibber/Miller never proposes anything that would help them on that you can be sure.

Casually Clarifying

[pricewepay]

Casual reader Never read where Defonzo wants to have those children in the schools legally kicked out. I believe he tried to explain what the laws regarding the schools are. I would have to assume, by your postings, that you think the over crowding in the homes, the exploitation of the illegals by landlords and companies is fine. I have yet to read a posting from you that offered any solutions to the issues facing Freehold. Doing nothing to help solve the problem, and distorting the views of anyone who disagees with you, is a tactic that will not work.
I'll ask again - what do you know about one issue in town - the crises faced by the schools ? Also how has the illegal immigration to Freehold affected the rea lestate tax in town. Do you know or care?

[casualreader]

PriceWePay:

I did not think it was the job of a member of the Board of Education to "legally kick out students" as you write. I thought it was his job to make sure they get a good education. I question the pursuit of this goal by DeFonzo dude.

If the inspectors determine there is overcrowding then that is one thing but I don't think Board Member DeFonzo dude should be trying to evict a segment of the student population.

As for the town, I think most people get along. As Councilman Kane said in the article it is mostly "extremists" on both sides that create the tensions. I think we need to live in harmony with our Mexican neighbors. Things need to be improved but not by blaming them for all the problems in your life. Real estate taxes are high for everyone in NJ -- My parents have a home in Bergen County. They are paying lots of dinero and their town does not have a lot of immigrants.

Stop blaming the Mexicans for everything and you will feel better inside -- Your internal frown will be turned into a smile. You will live longer too.

The next time you see a brown person what I want you to do PriceWePay is hold out your hand and say -- "Hola Senor!! Let us shake and be friends. Let us go and share a burritto together."

Can you do that PriceWePay? Are you ready to make that emotional breakthrough?

Say it with me PriceWePay -- "I Love Mexican People. Mexican People are alright by Me."

The spiritual cleansing will be great -- You will thank Casual for the rest of your days.

Casually Singing the Praises of the Mexican People

[casualreader]

Well FB Republican I have a $50 bill burning a hole in my pocket -- It could be yours if you are so confident that Fibber/Miller will emerge victorious.

The silence is deafening. The offer is still on the table.

Casually Las Vegas

[admin]

pricewepay said:

Casual reader Never read where Defonzo wants to have those children in the schools legally kicked out. I believe he tried to explain what the laws regarding the schools are. I would have to assume, by your postings, that you think the over crowding in the homes, the exploitation of the illegals by landlords and companies is fine. I have yet to read a posting from you that offered any solutions to the issues facing Freehold. Doing nothing to help solve the problem, and distorting the views of anyone who disagrees with you, is a tactic that will not work.
I'll ask again - what do you know about one issue in town - the crises faced by the schools ? Also how has the illegal immigration to Freehold affected the rea lestate tax in town. Do you know or care?

pricewepay,

Other than providing us with ample entertainment, CR has a pretty rotten record of site conduct. He will put words into people's mouths and twist things around on you. He will never use the term illegal alien. He equates illegal aliens with Mexicans which is a very degrading thing to do to Mexicans.

Go to the site guidelines and you will see under the banned list that CR has been a bit troublesome in the past. He is not here to engage in honest opinion or commentary and he is only a one topic participant.

I had to look up why I banned him to begin with. On Sept. 13 I wrote:

Casual Reader has received a two week ban for constant race baiting, hostility, and going off topic.

Take CR for what he is---> entertainment.

Casually signed,

Fascist Admin

[admin]

casualreader said:

Well FB Republican I have a $50 bill burning a hole in my pocket -- It could be yours if you are so confident that Fibber/Miller will emerge victorious.

The silence is deafening. The offer is still on the table.

Casually Las Vegas

Casual,

Now that I wrote some bad things about you, I will make you an offer. How about lunch with me and Councilman LeVinedude?

It will be on me.

It seams odd that you have avoided so many of us yet you want to meet fbrepublican. What is so special about him/her? What could you have against us original and fellow founding members of the site?

Casually signed,

Fascist admin

[pricewepay]

Casual Reader Again I'll say you don't know what I am. Why are you assuming I am not a Latino ?
Obviously, you are not very well informed. Before you start making ridiculous statements, know the facts. It is the responsibility of the B of Ed to educate all legal residents of Freehold. If someone lives in another town, it is the responsibility of the Board to have the child removed and moved to the district where he/she lives.
Also, I never said all the problems facing Freehold are because of the "Mexicans". However, I have yet to hear you offer any viable solutions. But, as you have proven, facts are something you are strong on.
PS: If you any idea of the make up of the Latino population in town, you would know that a good portion of them are Mexican. So next time you say hello, be sure to know who you are speaking to.

[pricewepay]

Brian The unfortunate truth is, too many people think and act like this person. It is my belief that they must be confronted and exposed for what they are. No matter what side you are on, it's essential that decisions be based on facts not feelings.

[casualreader]

Brian Dude:

The situation is as follows -- I disagree with you and you don't like it. My site conduct is fine -- you just do not like the message I am delivering. You should have a "Friends of Brian site" where everyone can agree with you or if they don't agree with you they are not that far away from your belief system. Then Brian can be the contented moderator.

I am sure you will try and find another excuse to get me banned. This board is not really open to every one -- it is really for a group that has a narrow set of views on the immigrant population.

Every time someone defends the immigrants that is "a Problem." Why? Because Brian says it is?

I do not share your views. Get over it. Since I am just entertaining don't worry about me.

As for meeting with you and Councilman Levine dude -- I have absolutely no interest in doing so. And, why should I? This is not a mutual support group. This is a message board for debate. Why don't you stipulate in the site guidelines that you need to meet with and approve the political perspective of all the posters? Have you done that with everyone?

I did not say I want to meet FBRepublican -- Maybe you should read more carefully. I said I wanted to make a wager with him/her. I have no desire to meet him/her either.

I will make the same wager with you -- Fibber/Miller will get toasted in the election. I am not sure he is better or worse than the other two. I have seen what I believe from him to be anti-immigrant posts -- so I know him better. I have less information about Kane and Sims.

Casually Declining Lunch

[casualreader]

PriceWePay:

So confront me and my ideas. We are not enemies we just disagree.

Casually Friendly

[casualreader]

PriceWePay:

If you took the time to read over DeFonzo dude's lengthy posts you will see that he goes into great detail about ways to deny education to certain people and then Fibber/Miller offers another solution.

The whole discussion on the Plyer () decision has been discussed at length here. I read his posts but evidently you did not. My points address the issues he raised.

I do not have a problem with asking children that live somewhere else to get their education there. So you see we can agree on something.

Casually Friendly

[novillero]

casualreader said:

I do not have a problem with asking children that live somewhere else to get their education there. So you see we can agree on something.

I think you are more likely to find hispanics sending their kids to FB schools than any another racial/ethnic group might. Why? Because there is no reason why a sane Freehold Township person would not send their kids to their own public schools as they have a great reputation and because Freehold Borough has a higher ratio of ESL students than other towns, and those kids' parents (hispanics who don't speak english) are more likely to want their kids here.

We'll all find out whose right, if any of us, after this investigator starts his job. I would think that if an overcrowded house is found... it is more likely that the children are living out of town than in in an actual overcrowded house, and they are just using that house as an address for school purposes.

Casual,

- you should look at the ratings of the Freehold Borough schools. The lower schools are lagging behind. Greatschools.net rates them at a 2 out of 10. Freehold Township aerages 8 or 9 out of 10.

- you will also remember that the schools are overcrowded. Kids were actually being taught in closets and in hallways.

- you may also remember the news stories about a lack of text books, cutting staff and programs.

- Here is a fact you also may not be aware of: the population of hispanic students is a higher percentage than percentage of hispanics in town. They are either having more kids, or overcrowding houses, or they are living outside of town sending their kids here to be educated (or a combination).

- remember that teaching ESL student is expensice. There are special services for hispanic kids that english speaking natives are not getting - like additional help through translators in the classroom, ESL teachers, and liaisons to the immigrant community. That means this higher population of students (who may not be in the educational system legally) are draining money from all of the other kids.

- lastly, you proport to be a twenty something. I want you to make-believe that you own a house - the biggest investment of your life - and (1) you believe your kids will get a substandard education in the borough; (2) you believe you pay too much in taxes; and (3) you know that your value of your biggest investment is going done, or not increasing at the rate of the rest of the state, because Freehold has a bad rap due to the educational system, among other things. Then I want to re-read what I addressed to you and think about it as if you actually invested something in this town, instead of whatever you do and whereever you are from.

[fbrepublican]

I am happy to hear that you have a fifty in your pocket. I do not. Being in one of the bluest states in the nation, run by Democrats, I have effectively been taxed into oblivion. I recently read a report that ranks states by tax burden.
Our glorious state ranked at 49, the only state being worse than us is Rhode Island. Even New York has a better tax burden than us.

Keep your fifty. You will need it for when you move after election day when the rest of us are saying congratulations to councilman Ted. You will have no future here.

casualreader said:

Well FB Republican I have a $50 bill burning a hole in my pocket -- It could be yours if you are so confident that Fibber/Miller will emerge victorious.

The silence is deafening. The offer is still on the table.

Casually Las Vegas

[andrewd]

I see I missed some posts by not watching the board this weekend...allow me a chance to reply to some inferences made above.

I invite anyone who is questioning my motives to read all of my previous posts, start with this one freeholdvoice.proboards46.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=anythingfreeholdborough&thread=1168009448&page=1 (down toward the bottom of the page)

Pay special attention to the last few paragraphs.

I serve on the Board of Education. I have a responsibility to try and ensure the best possible education for the students enrolled in our schools. However, I also have a responsibility to the taxpayers in our town, and that is what some of you are missing.

I am not going to get into a debate on here as to why I may or may not choose to pursue options in regards to our schools...my words will only get twisted by those who would choose to make me look bad.

Casual "dude"...I trust you will exercise your right to not vote for me should I choose to run for re-election in April...that is your right, and I will never say anything to deny you that right. I would also suggest, however, that if you see the board doing something that you are opposed to, come down to a meeting and say something. You'll note...I said if you see the Board doing something that you are opposed to...do not ever assume that the actions of one board member represent those of the entire board. I have stated time and time again that I do not speak for the Board of Education, so I would hope there is no confusion on that matter.

Any elected body can, and often will, consist of people with differing opinions...that's what stimulates debate on issues and forces that body to come up with compromises that will best suit all sides. I have a job to do as a BOE member, but I obviously do not "represent" all of the people in our town.

[richardkelsey]

casualreader said:

PriceWePay:

If you took the time to read over DeFonzo dude's lengthy posts you will see that he goes into great detail about ways to deny education to certain people and then Fibber/Miller offers another solution.

The whole discussion on the Plyer () decision has been discussed at length here. I read his posts but evidently you did not. My points address the issues he raised.

I do not have a problem with asking children that live somewhere else to get their education there. So you see we can agree on something.

Casually Friendly

I missed this whole little thread. You realize that every time someone gets banned they come back and claim it was for their political beleifs -- and not their policy violating conduct!

[Libyan Sibyl]

me too.

You must've banned me in August because I was too correct on every issue, and because my hair is too neat and my teeth are too straight.

I get that alot.