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Post by admin on Dec 25, 2006 9:18:04 GMT -5
Good post, Calliope. You are right, we need to counteract this nonsense. We also have to continue with an initiative to remove Frank from any appointed position he holds in the Borough. Maybe then the illegal immigrants will find a spokesman who can be a bit more tolerant and less divisive.
I t sounds to me that Frank is setting us up for another law suit, as well as sabotaging the upcoming rental advisory board recommendations. I have to start to wonder if he is making noise because the upcoming recommendations are not what he wants.
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Post by richardkelsey on Dec 25, 2006 12:41:45 GMT -5
BTW -- this is exactly why the surrender -- uh -- I mean settlement -- was a bad idea. Every time the Borough now looks for ways to defend herself, she will have her efforts brought before the Court alleging a violation of the settlement. Or, of course, you will have race hustling poverty pimps like this guy claiming Freehold has a "history" of mistreating Hispanics.
Of course, one the race card gets played -- the Park Press and other media will be all too willing to run an article from a guy like this who gets to be cloaked in legitimacy based upon his appointment to the Board.
I will give the illegals and their apologists credit -- they are far ahead of the Borough in using the media and playing hard-ball.
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Post by admin on Dec 25, 2006 22:43:47 GMT -5
BTW -- this is exactly why the surrender -- uh -- I mean settlement -- was a bad idea. Every time the Borough now looks for ways to defend herself, she will have her efforts brought before the Court alleging a violation of the settlement. Or, of course, you will have race hustling poverty pimps like this guy claiming Freehold has a "history" of mistreating Hispanics. Of course, one the race card gets played -- the Park Press and other media will be all too willing to run an article from a guy like this who gets to be cloaked in legitimacy based upon his appointment to the Board. I will give the illegals and their apologists credit -- they are far ahead of the Borough in using the media and playing hard-ball. My question. Frank was included in the Rental Advisory board. Could these articles and comments that he has had published be considered conduct unbecoming or acting in bad faith? With out doubt, it is in bad taste for him to start this crap before the recommendations are publicized. Also there is the hostile tone toward the Mayor and town. Is there any recourse for the town? I also wonder if he may think the RAB recommendations are a losing battle for the deviants he defends? Why else would he sabotage the findings before they are released? |
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Post by Marc LeVine on Dec 26, 2006 15:33:47 GMT -5
Our "friends" are kicking up ahead of the rental committee's recommendations to replace the town's anticipated excitement of, possibly getting its arms around a major code enforcement problem. Being strategically positioned out there is the threat of retaliation by the advocates if we do too good a job and actually accomplish something that reduces overcrowding. These threats are designed to produce timidity, added pressure and unnecessary restraint (on the part of the town) to render the recommendations inert and, perhaps, pocket veto them as a way to protect the status quo for overcrowding.
Isn't there is another parallel, here? Where are the 100+ fluorescent bike safety vests we've given out. Yes, I keep dwelling on this one, because it was supposed to be an opportunity for illegal immigrants to show respect for our ordinances and everyone's safety.
See any vests on the street? The folks that were handed them along with safety rules and our ordinance changes don't seem to give a darn and continue to ignore them. And for those without vests - where is the bright clothing that bike riders need to wear at night? Oh yes, Committee appointee Maureen Haley, wears her vest all the time. Why is that? We're still getting many complaints from residents after near misses between bicycles and cars. The advocates have issued a quiet threat here too - ticket a few people and listen to our outcry. Why are they not drawing the line between where education ends and responsibility begins?
BINGO! Brian, you hit the nail on the head about sabotage. The rental committee recommendations, if carried out, can make a real difference in Freehold Borough by removing some unfair advantages from our housing equation - particularly the overcrowding. This is the single most critical factor for making the whole slumlandlording business, worthwhile. Without overcrowding, the system returns itself to being one in which you can either afford the area's high rents or you can not. And, what's wrong with that?
I'll tell you why. Leveling the economic playing field would be disastrous for most illegal immigrants, because the same high cost of living that makes it so difficult for all of us to survive would make it impossible for them without the unfair supports we are all familiar with.
In our world, we each earn a paycheck from which between 30%-40% is removed for state and federal taxes as well as benefit contributions. Most one bedroom apartments rent for $1500 per month, plus utilities. Of course, the "other living incidentals" aren't so "incidental." They are downright expensive. People earning $10 per hour can not make it on that, especially after taxes. Others, making a whole lot more can not, either. Therefore, we are all subject to the same forces of Social Darwinism - survival of the fittest.
Take away the ability to overcrowd (along with tax waiver and free services) and you take away a whole series of artificial supports and comforts that the rest of us don't have to cushion us. We'd all love to rent our basements and attics to help pay our mortgage and property taxes, but we do not do it. Instead, we struggle to pay our own way, so that our small families have roofs over their heads.
No one advocates for us. Not in tough times. Not ever. Unless, of course, you are comforted by the notion that the county maintains a homeless shelter at Fort Monmouth. And, even that place has too few beds for us all.
We can be sympathetic to those, who came to America to make a go of it. But, we can't afford to give away the store. And, we shouldn't be expected to. There are far too many hungry Americans already standing in line for the kind of help that never comes their way. Most have already paid their taxes (when they once could), fought in our wars and pledged allegiance - ONLY - to our flag. Charity begins at home and with them. Most of them don't even expect as much as many illegal immigrants do.
Yes, market forces can be a double edged sword for illegal immigrants. Market forces can promise opportunity, but they can also demand disproportionate expense. And, there is nothing wrong with that. We can't all afford to live in Beverly Hills or shop on Rodeo Drive. I have to suppose that, for some, even Freehold Borough and Western Monmouth County can be equally restrictive. That's just the way it is and I resent ANYONE, who will "advocate" an unfair advantage over the rest of us.
Marc
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Post by Libyan Silbyl on Dec 27, 2006 9:29:58 GMT -5
Two things:
(1) too bad that it seems that Mr. Bellina was caught off-guard on this. His (printed) replies are too respectful and diplomatic. He could've replied about Freyre's position on the Rental Bd. as well as Frank's past history of not using the Human Relations Bd regarding the hiring of minorities. That could have changed the tone of the article. Now the boro is stuck defending itself with letters to the editor.
(2) As noted by RK, and I did not think of this before, but every article now about the boro can say that there is a history of discrimation and simply point to the settlement as proof.
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Post by Xenios Zeus on Dec 27, 2006 12:04:34 GMT -5
Libyan, the Borough does have a history of discrimination; this is an undeniable fact about Freehold Borough. It dates back to 1921 when the Court Street School was opened and even prior to it. Now in recent history there is also discrimination, Libyan, I would agree with most of you if you were trying to get rid of a delinquent element, but you (maybe not you personally, but the collective you) are judging every Latino as being undocumented and or criminal, you are looking at the color of our skin and making a judgment, and don’t even try to deny this. I have been the victim of discrimination myself, not that I put up with it, and the person who tried probably whishes he had not, but I have seen Latinos being intimidated right in front of my eyes, now how does this salesperson/police officer/public service employee/you name it, know they are undocumented or criminal? Unfortunately discrimination against Latinos exist in FB (and beyond) today, and it will not go away by sweeping it under the rug, it must be displayed for everyone to see and be disgusted with it, and then, and only then will people step up and do the right thing. Two things: (1) too bad that it seems that Mr. Bellina was caught off-guard on this. His (printed) replies are too respectful and diplomatic. He could've replied about Freyre's position on the Rental Bd. as well as Frank's past history of not using the Human Relations Bd regarding the hiring of minorities. That could have changed the tone of the article. Now the boro is stuck defending itself with letters to the editor. (2) As noted by RK, and I did not think of this before, but every article now about the boro can say that there is a history of discrimation and simply point to the settlement as proof. |
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Post by Libyan Sibyl on Dec 27, 2006 12:39:16 GMT -5
I will address the current discriminaton argument only.
Question: Assuming that this discrimination is happening as a result of this Committee's recommendation of yearly inspections - shouldn't Mr. Freyre have brought this up in the committee, or made it known to the borough council before airing it to the press (that again, is assuming that he did not do bring it up to those bodies - but that is what has been posted on this board).
I think what people are angry about, is that this comes off as a back-stabbing / snake-in-the grass type of move. Mr. Freyre has been placed on this committee and others specifically because of his ability to provide input on these exact issues and bring up the hispanic perspectives. Instead of bringing them up in the appropriate places, it appears that he waits and sabotages the committees, boards, etc. According to the article, there are complaints by hispanics. Did he bring up these complaints to the attention of anyone other than the newspapers? There is obviously more to the story (but I assume that if he did bring it up, he would have made that known to the papers)
So, anyway, I cannot comment apart from what I hear about the committees and what I read in the papers. And collectively, it all leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Now assuming that that Mr. Freyre is working behind the scenes and failed to bring this all up to the appropriate committees, etc. it makes me wonder if the committees will issue a statement censuring him.
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Post by sonofsilencedogood on Dec 27, 2006 12:53:30 GMT -5
Marc... I don't think any of us are surprised at their lack of wearing the free vest that were handed out. They don't respect the immigration laws of this whole nation, why would they respect the local ordinances of a small town who is powerless to do anything against them? These illegal immigrants laugh in our faces every time they see us. I really wonder what the motivation is for advocates of illegal immigrants. At this point, I have reached my wits end with these locusts, and to all of the advocates, I say the following... Don't you dare compare them to my ancestors...my ancestors came here to become American citizens. Don't tell me they do the work that American's don't want to do. American's are simply not willing to do that work for the slave wages that employers are willing to pay the illegals. Don't tell me to feel sorry for them...they are leaches on society, and they know exactly how to bleed the system for everything that they want. And by the way, for all of you who seem to think that waving a magic wand and simply making them all citizens is the answer...do you really think that once they are truly American citizens that they are going to agree to continue to work for these slave wages without any benefits?  Please!!! That lawn that you're getting landscaped for $150 is going to double. The steak you're eating at the restaurant for $19 is going to cost you $26. Wake up and smell the reality!! One other note...I really believe that there can never be some serious reform to the way this town handles the illegal immigration issue until we get rid of the "good ole boys" network that has been our Mayor and Town Council for the past number of years. Don't get me wrong, there are a couple on the Council that are deserving of their office, but those that have been there for so many years, who did nothing back when this problem started, need to go. Too many shady deals and shady actions took place under their watch, and no true reform can start until they are gone. Marc, you are one of the Council members who can truly make a difference...but this town can not deal with talk anymore. Like Richard Kelsey said earlier, the settlement that you all agreed to is now going to be the shackles that tie your hands from enforcing any new ordinances you may come up with. At the very least, I have to figure you're looking at a legal battle every time you try to come up with something new...so is the town going to "settle" on each of those issues as well??? Do I have an answer for you right now? No...but I am working on one. But when I, or anyone else, comes up with an idea...what will the town council do with it??? If history shows us anything, the mayor and the current council will stall and bury their heads in the sand. |
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Dec 27, 2006 16:25:45 GMT -5
(2) As noted by RK, and I did not think of this before, but every article now about the boro can say that there is a history of discrimation and simply point to the settlement as proof. One settlement, stemming from a single action, is not a "HISTORY", in my opinion, were as a series of actions, resulting in a series of settlements or judgments is a clear history, again in my opinion! FIGFY |
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Post by fedup on Dec 27, 2006 16:33:02 GMT -5
One other note...I really believe that there can never be some serious reform to the way this town handles the illegal immigration issue until we get rid of the "good ole boys" network that has been our Mayor and Town Council for the past number of years. Don't get me wrong, there are a couple on the Council that are deserving of their office, but those that have been there for so many years, who did nothing back when this problem started, need to go. Too many shady deals and shady actions took place under their watch, and no true reform can start until they are gone. "Shady deals," eh? Please elaborate, if you will.  |
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Post by Libyan Sibyl on Dec 27, 2006 16:59:57 GMT -5
One settlement, stemming from a single action, is not a "HISTORY", in my opinion, were as a series of actions, resulting in a series of settlements or judgments is a clear history, again in my opinion!FIGFY Well, great, you and the newspapers and Frank Freyre can fight over the definition of "history." But here is a break down, (1) before the "settlement," the town agreed to change its code enforcement tactics; (2) before the "settlement," the town agreed to drop the boiro ordinance pertaining to officer's discretion; (3) before the "settlement," the town agreed to re-open the muster zone. Then there was (4) the settlement. So, we can debate whether there is a "history" or whether it is something else, and we can debate the meaning of each event. The point of my post is that there is something concrete for the illegals to point at and say "AHA! you see, if they were not discriminating, why did they settle." There is now a concrete record that can be interpreted, or distorted, whatever you want to call it. But guess what, it'll follow us, and not as a victory. and now.... it's called history. |
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Post by admin on Dec 27, 2006 17:50:55 GMT -5
Libyan, the Borough does have a history of discrimination; this is an undeniable fact about Freehold Borough. It dates back to 1921 when the Court Street School was opened and even prior to it. Now in recent history there is also discrimination, Libyan, I would agree with most of you if you were trying to get rid of a delinquent element, but you (maybe not you personally, but the collective you) are judging every Latino as being undocumented and or criminal, you are looking at the color of our skin and making a judgment, and don’t even try to deny this. I have been the victim of discrimination myself, not that I put up with it, and the person who tried probably whishes he had not, but I have seen Latinos being intimidated right in front of my eyes, now how does this salesperson/police officer/public service employee/you name it, know they are undocumented or criminal? Unfortunately discrimination against Latinos exist in FB (and beyond) today, and it will not go away by sweeping it under the rug, it must be displayed for everyone to see and be disgusted with it, and then, and only then will people step up and do the right thing. Two things: (1) too bad that it seems that Mr. Bellina was caught off-guard on this. His (printed) replies are too respectful and diplomatic. He could've replied about Freyre's position on the Rental Bd. as well as Frank's past history of not using the Human Relations Bd regarding the hiring of minorities. That could have changed the tone of the article. Now the boro is stuck defending itself with letters to the editor. (2) As noted by RK, and I did not think of this before, but every article now about the boro can say that there is a history of discrimation and simply point to the settlement as proof. Zeus, I usually do not reply to you, but for once I am taking the bait and partly sharing some of your concerns. I am going to start by saying, do not mistake frustration for discrimination. Yes, there is a great deal of frustration and strong opinions on this site, that is a reflection of the American population on the whole. I doubt that the majority of participants on this site hate or even dislike Latino's. Zeus, you are right to warn about pre -judgements and I share that concern. I lead my life judging others by their actions, as individuals. I believe to do otherwise is insulting and degrading. Allow me to take this a bit further, out of Freehold. You mention discrimination and have concerns about how people perceive Latino's. Take a look at America as a whole. Spanish speaking people have been with us for centuries. There are many who have contributed greatly to our nation. Look at modern day culture in America. Every where we look, Latino's are present in a positive way; actors, musicians, baseball, politicians, friends, neighbors, co-workers and so on. As a people, they are well accepted by the majority of the rest of us non-Latino's. Now, having established that the majority of us have no ill will or hatered of Latino's, studies and polls have demonstrated time and time again, that the majority of Americans have a great concern for illegal immigration reform. Most Americans realize that what is happening is not good. This is tricky. This is the point where too many people, on both sides, define the issue by skin color. I believe that is a wrong headed approach, regardless of what side of the equation a person is on. If we were talking about twenty million, red headed Irishman, engaging in the same activities, pouring in to this country, we would still be having illegal immiration discussions. The only difference would be that the illegal Irishman would not be able to cry racism so quickly. Now, why did I say that I partly share your concerns? That has to do with the topic of this thread, those who represent the illegal immigrants. In Freehold and beyond, we have seen that side of the debate engage in militant and sometimes violent tactics in degrading the very real safety and financial concerns of the American public,, who largly want reform. Getting back to Franky, he has blown it. His recent antics in the press are in bad taste, drive the wedge even deeper, and do nothing to better anybody. In my opinion, Franky and those who abet him have done the very community they represent a great diservice. After the law suit, they mentioned that they wanted to work with the Boro. That sure did not last. For no reason, they have gone off the deep end again. Look at the bicycle saftey initiative. How many are wearing vests? Franko failed! His own community has slapped him in the face! With such a simple issue! Where is the respect, Zeus? Zeus, our town has a lot of work ahead. There are bridges that need to be repaired. If there is such a concern from you about discrimination, then your side has a lot of catch up to do. It is a two way street. The best respect is that which is earned. What are you doing for the illegal immigrant community to earn that respect? I will give you a hint. Stop being intolorant. Stop with the cheap press, stop putting this town down every chance you get, stop with the divisive approach. It is cheap. The Latino's and the illegal immigrants are getting ripped off by their current leadership. It all gives me more reason to feel bad for people who have fled their countries that failed them. Brian P.S. On the subject of being discriminated against, It does suck! I have been on the recieving end myself, more times than I can count. |
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Post by fiberisgoodforyou on Dec 27, 2006 18:36:40 GMT -5
So, we can debate whether there is a "history" or whether it is something else, and we can debate the meaning of each event. The point of my post is that there is something concrete for the illegals to point at and say "AHA! you see, if they were not discriminating, why did they settle." There is now a concrete record that can be interpreted, or distorted, whatever you want to call it. But guess what, it'll follow us, and not as a victory. and now.... it's called history. I am not gonna debate...I stand by my OPINION!...HOWEVER Lets say a person gets a pulled over Driving under the influence and gets nailed, this person now has A record, but with out a series of DUI's the is no "History" of offences, just ONE record. I will not accept the mention in the press that FB has a HISTORY of Latino Discrimination, Fact is there is NO HISTORY! Lets ask the APP o how they define “A History of Latino Discrimination” as an accurate fact or they should retract this fictional characterization! Further, I’d like to see our Mayor issue an OP-ED to the APP discussing the truth about our HISTORY, and ask, no DEMAND a retraction from APP. Further If you have a subscription to the APP, Cancel it!!! One legal action settled out of court is hardly a History of..., If one side chooses to spin and gloat with an "AHA" over a settlement that proved neither side was committed enough to play their hand to and go all in, let them lament, as they achieved NOTHING! Granted the Lawyers made out well. What the Boro established through this settlement is an need to cross the "T's" and dot the "I's" on any future actions, to be crystal clear and issue NO DOUBT to future issues, incidents, incarcerations and code violations! To exercise exacting due diligence, and make "IT" STICK. What the "Advocates" establish is the need elevate their immoral covert sleaziness, to become more diligent to support their illegitimacy while maintaining the protection of OUR laws. That a thought act to keep up, with out showing your true colors sooner or later! But make no mistake; there is no hiding from identify theft, and falsification of documentation. The shroud of lies that they weave to achieve the BS cloak of invisibility called immigrant rights, becomes an increasingly transparent vial. The more tangled their lie becomes, which now they MUST, the more caught up they become. And about OUR history? We have a history of being opened and welcoming when we (now mistakenly) offered a muster zone in 1998. The fact is, our history is one of generosity and welcoming, and the "advocates" USE our strength as a weakness. I am proud of our history here in FB, the gloating advocates are shameful. Sooner or later their constituents WILL realize that they cut their nose to spite their face. The way forward requires that EVERY violation, infraction and incident will BE undisputable by their request, AKA The Settlement! I’d very much appreciate it if our council TEST ‘s this settlement ASAP! |
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Please!!! That lawn that you're getting landscaped for $150 is going to double. The steak you're eating at the restaurant for $19 is going to cost you $26. Wake up and smell the reality!!
