News Transcript Letter 2/21

[Zeus]

'Community' must include everyone who resides there

The community. Our community. Whose community? When I read and hear comments made by members of the Borough Council in Freehold Borough about how they want to preserve the community; how they want what is best for the community; and how they will fight for the community, I can't help but wonder what the word "community" means to them.

Apparently, they have a very myopic view of what a community constitutes. Like it or not, a community is made up of all people living in it - good and bad people, law-abiding and law-breaking people, desirable and undesirable people, wealthy and indigent people, healthy and sick people, strong and weak people, and yes, as much as many may not want to have them around or admit that they exist among us, documented and undocumented people ("legal" and "illegal," if that makes you happier).

Perhaps, to make it easier for the council members and others who think like them to comprehend what I am saying, they should be reminded that when they took their oath of office to uphold the laws of their communities, they were promising/swearing to represent all the citizens.

However, the word "citizens" does not literally mean that council members can only or will only represent and care about the rights of natural-born citizens or naturalized citizens of our great nation.

Let's not forget that - even our great nation's Constitution protects the rights of all people living in our wonderful land, the United States of America.

Luckily, ever since 1789, when some very wise, astute and forward-thinking individuals decided to introduce our Bill of Rights for ratification, there have been other people who have fought for the rights of all people making up our country.

There were those who fought for the rights of enslaved people to be free. (Remember, slaves were "illegal" if they wandered about in the south). There were those who advocated suffrage for women. (Remember, casting ballots by women was "illegal"). There were those who helped 18, 19- and 20-year-olds to be granted the right to vote. (Remember, it was "illegal" to vote if you were under 21 years of age).

What if nobody back then had been willing to consider having slaves, women or our younger population with equal rights and part of our community?

What if nobody had the guts to stand up for a cause that many others could not even fathom? What if the rights of the aforementioned individuals had not been deemed important enough to consider?

I ask you that because the Borough Council is expending its members' time, creativity and diligence.

Yes, some of the residents in Freehold Borough are "illegal," and yes, they have broken "the law" upon setting foot in this almighty country of ours, but now that they are here, they are in your, my, and everyone's community.

Trying to demand that renters prove their immigration status is not what a community is about. Strive toward inclusion, enhanced communication, understanding and work together, as a community must and should. Remember, a community is about joint ownership and participation of all involved.

Martha Eisner

Manalapan

[admin]

I will be back later to address this letter, but for now I will stir today up with the following thought.

The above letter should not be pointing fingers at our town government. It should be pointing the finger at the activists who support illegal immigrants and their big time failure at helping the illegals gain any respect. It is all a two way street, and we have yet to see anything positive come out of the illegal activists and those they claim to support.

[Guest]

Martha Eisner

Manalapan


Case closed.

Guest


PS. I also heard that this woman works closely with FF and the alliance. Marc mentioned her name once about bike safety or the Latino festival held at the school or something like that.

[LS]

I don't know why we are debating the word community, when this is not what it is about. Anyway, the write has the myopic view of community that she says that others have.

A community can be a very limited, to just a small group of individuals (or animals) that share a common interest (and excludes people of different interests or people that do not share that common interest), or it could be a town, county, state.

And that a community has to include everyone is not a proper definition. Certainly, accepting her definition of the word community to include everyone within a town's limits, this community (and hers) exclude certain people from the community. We do exclude people that have committed crimes - they are in jail (she also admitted that illegals committed crimes). We also exclude, to as much as possible, sex offenders.

So, it was a nice little piece that she wrote - and really did not stay on topic (defining "community"), but it was rather a disingenuous and myopic - as her sole purpose was to make sure that her group was included in your definition of community. (p.s. as already subtley pointed out, Manalapan does not have this "community" in their "community" - in your backyard is fine, but NIMBY)

Lastly, whenever people have to bring Nazi Germany or slavery into their argument, my knee-jerk reaction is to think that they don't have a stronger basis to rest their argument than comparing their plight to these horrific examples of suffering.

[Marc LeVine]

woman works closely with FF and the alliance.

Guest:

Yes, this is true. Very nice and caring lady. FF is obviously noticing the many new FB names appearing under editorials and seeks to counter by drumming up more support for himself. The best he can do is borrow support from other non-effected communities like Manalapan.

I grew up in Manalapan and have many friends there (and in Marlboro), who keep reminding me how "bad they feel" watching FB go downhill with so many illegal immigrants in town. They are pleased that their town(s) only share less than 2% of the illegal immigration burden.

Maybe Mrs. Eisner should be addressing her own town's governing body and blasting them for being too successful in keeping illegal immigrants out of Manalapan. Errr...at least, AFTER they cut all the lawns in Monmouth Heights and Yorktowne.

It's ok to have these illegals cut their lawns, but they can't send their kids to school with their children. Now, why is that OK with the advocates?

Marc LeVine

[Freehold Resident]

Umm....Mrs. Eisner.....

News Flash!!!

Slaves were BROUGHT here, unwillingly.

Illegal Immigrants came over by choice. They decided to break the law.

As I mentioned in the past, my best friend is Syrian. All of his family members went through the proper channels to become citizens here in America. Therefore, if they did it, there is no excuse for anyone else not to. And he will tell you that too.

Mrs. Eisner, go back to Manalapan/Marlboro/Staten Island (they're all the same town landfill pretty much!), and stop screwing up our whole beautiful area. Ciao.

F R

[Zeus]

So you can only opine on and about Freehold Borough’s actions if you live in FB. That is an absurd and twisted mentality.

Guest said:

Martha Eisner

Manalapan


Case closed.

Guest


PS. I also heard that this woman works closely with FF and the alliance. Marc mentioned her name once about bike safety or the Latino festival held at the school or something like that.

[Freehold Resident]

Zeus...

Does a Manalapan resident pay Freehold Boro taxes?

I'd venture to say that's a big "NO"

FR

[Marc LeVine]

BoroughSo you can only opine on and about Freehold Borough’s actions if you live in FB. That is an absurd and twisted mentality. [/quote]

Credibility comes with experiencing things first hand. Ever see the reaction you get when you tell a parent, who lost a child, "I know exactly how you feel?" My advice - don't try it!!!

I'm also a good example of this as a Cancer survivor. No one that has never had Cancer can identify with my experience. Ever think about being dead by a certain date - a pre-set date, as in you have less than a year to live? I'm sure not. However, I belong to several support group lists,on linee, where everyone is comfortable in "coming from the same place."

No sir! Martha Eisner visits FB, sees and feels sorry for the illegal aliens, but she sleeps in a pristine community that has not experienced what Freehold Borough has nor has it gone out of its way to invite the less fortunate in to live among them.

How much of their Mt. Laurel housing obligation have Manalapan and Marlboro sold to towns like Freehold Borough and why? And, how much of this unwanted obligation has Freehold Borough accepted? So, where are the real Xenophobes located, Zeus? You need to pursue them - NOT US.

Martha Eisner's neighbors do not experience overcrowding or out of control rental properties. Nor, are the Manalapan-Englishtown School (my early alma mater) experiencing the overall declines Freehold Borough is now, but never experienced, before. And, FB's are DIRECTLY due to issues surrounding illegal immigration. Look at the numbers and ask board members like Andrew DeFonzo and Jim Keelan if this is notaccuratee. Even ask Jennifer Beck and Ellen Karcher what their impressions are? They feel sorry for us. They told us!!!!

So, please don't tell me or anyone else how well Martha Eisner can identify with Freehold Borough'sresidentss and problems. It's no different than her being a member of the Peace Corps and feeding those less fortunate in Third World countries before returning home to a warm bed in some "SAFE" and out of touch community like Manalapan.

I grew up there and chose to move to the Borough, so I know the deal, here AND THERE, better than many of your "advocate do-gooders," who don't mind seeing the problems confined to someone else's neighborhood.

Sorry. Most that I know will agree with my point of view on this one. Because we know we are right. Until them you need to do better matching all the editorials signed FREEHOLD BOROUGH, with others who live here, pay taxes here and think the situation is great!

Marc

[Marc LeVine]

That is an absurd and twisted mentality.

Uhhh Ohhh... and I just complimented you for "playing nice." "Twisted mentality" is not a nice way to describe those, who may disagree with your views. Especially, when so many more Americans identify with the "twisted" point of view than your own.

Wouldn't that same unflattering term go better for people, who routinely shrug their shoulders at our existing laws and tell other law abiding citizens that demanding their enforcement means that they are racists and narrow minded? How did your mommy raise you? Pick and follow only the laws you like?

And, where does that power to tell others to disregard our laws come from? Not from the Bill of Rights. Maybe the Communist Manifestos...

Marc

[Zeus]

You are funny! We are all a little twisted in our own way, myself included.

There were plenty of laws in the books that many people at one junction or another decided not to follow. Today these people are heroes and martyrs for their non-compliance, and we all thank God they had the guts to step outside the line. By the way, I’m in no way comparing myself to these great women and men, point I’m trying to make is that ALL laws are not necessarily good, and that sometimes these must be challenged in order to do the right thing.

Marc said:

That is an absurd and twisted mentality.

Uhhh Ohhh... and I just complimented you for "playing nice." "Twisted mentality" is not a nice way to describe those, who may disagree with your views. Especially, when so many more Americans identify with the "twisted" point of view than your own.

Wouldn't that same unflattering term go better for people, who routinely shrug their shoulders at our existing laws and tell other law abiding citizens that demanding their enforcement means that they are racists and narrow minded? How did your mommy raise you? Pick and follow only the laws you like?

And, where does that power to tell others to disregard our laws come from? Not from the Bill of Rights. Maybe the Communist Manifestos...

Marc

[Bugs BUnny]

Zeus said:

You are funny! We are all a little twisted in our own way, myself included.

There were plenty of laws in the books that many people at one junction or another decided not to follow. Today these people are heroes and martyrs for their non-compliance, and we all thank God they had the guts to step outside the line. By the way, I’m in no way comparing myself to these great women and men, point I’m trying to make is that ALL laws are not necessarily good, and that sometimes these must be challenged in order to do the right thing.

Oh boy, WAKE UP - big difference.

Once you are in the country illegally, what makes you think you have the right to remain illegally?

C'mon, give it a rest. And this is another tactic I dislike, fake grandiose comparisons - comparing illegal aliens (or yourself) to martyrs or heroes -- mostly likely hinting at Ghandi, MLK and the like -- is waaaaaaaaaay off.

[Freehold Resident]

Fine, you want to change laws in this country, then pay taxes like you and I.

Until then, in the great words of Dorothy Zbornak, "ADIOS MUCHACHA!!!"

F R

[Marc LeVine]

There were plenty of laws in the books that many people at one junction or another decided not to follow

Yuo want to start some civil disobediance, start with Iraq. In November the American people cleaned out Congress to send a clear message about the war. The President heard what was being said and INCREASED our troop levels!!!

This one (illegal immigration) is too costly and too painful to our HOUSEHOLD economies to ignore, unfortunately. Who do you know that would go to the government and tell them that they want to pay more taxes to cover someone else's tax burden and healthcare costs? Are you that rich? Me, neither.

We haggle over basic rights, human rights and bill of rights. And, some fail to see what this is really all about -- returning some INTEGRITY, as well as controls, checks and balances, to the system. Because these people are here, illegally, EVERYONE is running afoul of the law.

And, the good, hard working people are paying for all this disregard.

Marc

[admin]

admin said:

I will be back later to address this letter, but for now I will stir today up with the following thought.

The above letter should not be pointing fingers at our town government. It should be pointing the finger at the activists who support illegal immigrants and their big time failure at helping the illegals gain any respect. It is all a two way street, and we have yet to see anything positive come out of the illegal activists and those they claim to support.

Well, i was going to come back and comment on this letter a bit more, but you all clobbered it pretty good. I am still waiting for someone to answer my above question

P. S. Zeus, it is good to see you posting some more. You and IM do provide some new perspectives. Keep it up

[Marc LeVine]

ALL laws are not necessarily good, and that sometimes these must be challenged in order to do the right thing.

Zeus:

By the way...I AGREE! But, you challenge them inside Washington, Trenton, Freehold Hall of Records and even in Freehold Borough Hall, not by ignoring them on the streets.

I'm sure that we can find some group of people to oppose EVERY SINGLE law on the books.

Look at our Libertarians on this list. There are many, here. Respectfully, acknowledging them, they have criticized or even attacked many existing and proposed laws and ordinances on this list. And, they are only one segment of American Society.

Liberals attack other laws. Right Wingers attack different laws. If each group challenged our laws by ignoring them, we wouldn't have too many laws to follow and all kinds of sneaky people would be taking advantage of the whole system to chaotic proportions.

Marc

[normanbellis]

Zeus said:

'Community' must include everyone who resides there

The community. Our community. Whose community? When I read and hear comments made by members of the Borough Council in Freehold Borough about how they want to preserve the community; how they want what is best for the community; and how they will fight for the community, I can't help but wonder what the word "community" means to them.

Apparently, they have a very myopic view of what a community constitutes. Like it or not, a community is made up of all people living in it - good and bad people, law-abiding and law-breaking people, desirable and undesirable people, wealthy and indigent people, healthy and sick people, strong and weak people, and yes, as much as many may not want to have them around or admit that they exist among us, documented and undocumented people ("legal" and "illegal," if that makes you happier).

Perhaps, to make it easier for the council members and others who think like them to comprehend what I am saying, they should be reminded that when they took their oath of office to uphold the laws of their communities, they were promising/swearing to represent all the citizens.

However, the word "citizens" does not literally mean that council members can only or will only represent and care about the rights of natural-born citizens or naturalized citizens of our great nation.

Let's not forget that - even our great nation's Constitution protects the rights of all people living in our wonderful land, the United States of America.

Luckily, ever since 1789, when some very wise, astute and forward-thinking individuals decided to introduce our Bill of Rights for ratification, there have been other people who have fought for the rights of all people making up our country.

There were those who fought for the rights of enslaved people to be free. (Remember, slaves were "illegal" if they wandered about in the south). There were those who advocated suffrage for women. (Remember, casting ballots by women was "illegal"). There were those who helped 18, 19- and 20-year-olds to be granted the right to vote. (Remember, it was "illegal" to vote if you were under 21 years of age).

What if nobody back then had been willing to consider having slaves, women or our younger population with equal rights and part of our community?

What if nobody had the guts to stand up for a cause that many others could not even fathom? What if the rights of the aforementioned individuals had not been deemed important enough to consider?

I ask you that because the Borough Council is expending its members' time, creativity and diligence.

Yes, some of the residents in Freehold Borough are "illegal," and yes, they have broken "the law" upon setting foot in this almighty country of ours, but now that they are here, they are in your, my, and everyone's community.

Trying to demand that renters prove their immigration status is not what a community is about. Strive toward inclusion, enhanced communication, understanding and work together, as a community must and should. Remember, a community is about joint ownership and participation of all involved.

Martha Eisner

Manalapan

[normanbellis]

new to the forum... ZEUS I like your comments.

[normanbellis]

new to the area & forum. catching up on this topic (which interests me). I hit "post" by mistake.
sorry.
NORMAN