No Knock Ordinance

[Libyan Sibyl]

P.s. thank you Mr. LeVine for listening and placing the second reading on hold.

As this law seems to be passing in some form or other - there should be exemptions for political speech, charitable groups (whether religious or something like the girl scouts) and there should be a built-in ignorance first-time exception. Many people, like the new investors from Brooklyn, may be caught through simply being unaware of the law. (Welcome to the neighborhood!)

here is an article I found which I think references the federal case mentioned by Mr. Tinton Falls: www.post-gazette.com/pg/06119/686064-55.stm

I am sure someone can find an article that discusses the law better than this.

[richardkelsey]

Well -- I have not read the entire case, so I hate to comment. I find the result a bit surprising. My guess is, if I read the case, the Court draws a large distinction between political canvassing and such door knocking that is merely in pursuit of economic speech. No speech is provided greater protection than political speech -- thus restraints on it must be narrowly tailored.

Having said that -- I think the 3rd Circuit is off its collective rocker -- frankly. If the Government can force protesters and parade marchers to obtain permits to use public spaces to practice free political speech, requiring those seeking to enter private property for the purpose of expressing their political speech seems reasonable. Frankly -- I don't see how your right to free speech trumps my right to prevent you from trespassing.

Sadly, the quality of the jurisprudence on the 3rd Circuit has fallen -- and it is by most measures an emerging activist Court. (creating law rather than enforcing law.) This is a reflection of the states it covers, the Professional bars inside the states, and the political machines that send Judges through the system.

I will read up on the case and give a further thought on it.

In the end, I am sure restricting solicitors, there for economic purposes, isl be permitted.

[Guest]

;D, Boy it is a really sad state of affairs in Freehold Borough when they have to go after Boy and Girl Scouts. Bigotry just doesn't stop in this sorry A. town, does it?

[admin]

Guest said:

;D, Boy it is a really sad state of affairs in Freehold Borough when they have to go after Boy and Girl Scouts. Bigotry just doesn't stop in this sorry A. town, does it?

Hello Guest! I see by your flurry of posts that you are a new participant on this site, and I do welcome that! I do want to ask if you could put up a name next to your guest status. That is for the good of all of our readers.

I have also noted that you hold some different view points than many of us, and I will not have any problem with that. I only ask that you keep it sane, sound and Freehold.

I quoted the above because it is a topic that has brought forth many view points, some for and some against. I would like to engage you to put forth a more thorough view point of your own. Are you against these type ordinances in general? How about in other towns? I also noticed that you dropped the "B" bomb. Could you enlighten us a little more?

I ask out of curiosity, not hostility. This topic even got the attention of another town councilman. I wonder if he complained about other towns enacting this ordinance, or just Freehold.

I know I made the assumption that you, guest, are against the ordinance, but do you find any value in it?

[concerned]

Hi again,

sorry by the way to start that new topic when this one existed... next time I'll read further down and see the other topics already existing.

I actually have 2 questions -
1) is this ordinance, in its updated and revised form, available for viewing on the Internet?

2) how does this effect leaving pamphlets, 1 paged flyers in someone's mailbox along with their other mail?


Personally I don't have a problem with the proposed ordinance, as long as it allows this (leaving literature in mailboxes), as someone who really doesn't want people knocking on their doors still wouldn't have to deal with them.

The reason I feel this shouldn't be restricted is that if there are people who have information that they want to get out, and can't afford to mail (and have the ambition to run it up to every house in a selected area) or don't want to have to wait to get it into the newspapers (and newspapers can't print too many words per individual request, and not everyone reads the same newspapers).

But I can relate to people who don't want knockers on their door, and so I feel that part of the law is still acceptable.

Thank you for reading and thanks in advance for answers to my question.

[fedup]

concerned said:

2) how does this effect leaving pamphlets, 1 paged flyers in someone's mailbox along with their other mail?


Personally I don't have a problem with the proposed ordinance, as long as it allows this (leaving literature in mailboxes), as someone who really doesn't want people knocking on their doors still wouldn't have to deal with them.

The reason I feel this shouldn't be restricted is that if there are people who have information that they want to get out, and can't afford to mail (and have the ambition to run it up to every house in a selected area) or don't want to have to wait to get it into the newspapers (and newspapers can't print too many words per individual request, and not everyone reads the same newspapers).

That isn't up to the Borough to decide. Per the USPS website:

"Can a a flyer/envelope be put it in someone else's mailbox without being mailed? What if a stamp was placed on it?

Postage must go through the Postal Service™ and be delivered for it to be valid postage and therefore acceptable in the mail receptacle. A flyer cannot be placed in a mailbox after putting a stamp on it unless the item was actually mailed.

"No part of a mail receptacle may be used to deliver any matter not bearing postage, including items or matter placed upon, supported by, attached to, hung from, or inserted into a mail receptacle. Any mailable matter not bearing postage and found as described above is subject to the same postage as would be paid if it were carried by mail."

The key to this statement is in the term "postage" which is defined as: payment for a delivery service that is affixed or imprinted to a mailpiece, usually in the form of a postage stamp, permit imprint, or meter impression.

Notes:

*
If you have a curbside mailbox, or a mailbox on the outside of your house, USPS regulations govern what can and can't be placed in them. Generally speaking, only mail that has been sent through the USPS may be placed in these types of receptacles. Conversely, USPS regulations do not govern what can be placed in a mail slot on your door. This means that if a local business wants to put a flyer in the mail slot, they can do so.
*
For further questions (or to report occurrences) regarding flyers being placed into your mailbox without first going through the postal system, please refer to the local Post Office™."

tinyurl.com/yhf8fo

[LS]

News on the no-knock.

newstranscript.gmnews.com/news/2007/0228/Front_Page/049.html

The amendment will require anyone who wants to canvass or solicit in Freehold Borough to first obtain a license at a cost of $100. Persons engaged in political, charitable or philanthropic canvassing will not need to apply for a license or permit, but they will be required to register as canvassers with the Borough Clerk.
...
In addition to the license or permit, every applicant will be required to wear a photo identification badge that will identify the person as a licensed commercial solicitor. All canvassing or soliciting must take place between 9 a.m. and 9 p.m.

QUESTION: Do the girl scouts need photo ids? trick or treaters? Who is responsible for the photo id?

[guest]

LS said:

QUESTION: Do the girl scouts need photo ids? trick or treaters? Who is responsible for the photo id?

Aren't these questions better asked of the Borough Council/Administrator/Lawyer, rather than to the sock puppets denizens of this message board?

[LS]

awww. You are right. Everyone. Time to close up shop. No more talking to each other.

[guest]

LS said:

awww. You are right. Everyone. Time to close up shop. No more talking to each other.

No, don't stop your useless speculation on my account. I just though you might actually want information from the people who actually know the answers to your questions.

[LS]

Gee, I wonder what little girl is not using her handle and using cute little icons to express herself.

Anyway, it is obviously not useless speculation... see my prior posts and the responses from town council.

[unwelcome guest]

LS said:

Gee, I wonder what little girl is not using her handle and using cute little icons to express herself.

Anyway, it is obviously not useless speculation... see my prior posts and the responses from town council.

Which sock puppet does the own council post as? (and who is this handle-less "little girl" you suppose I am?)