Freehold Borough Race 2007

[fiberisgoodforyou]

libyansybil said:

off that subject of vision, we'll continue again I think.

It's a pretty miserable day, and it is not supposed to rain all day. Will the rain affect the election today? Who will be affected the most and how?

Kane rhymes with Rain. Foul weather favors the challengers! Voters for the Challengers tend to be more motivated for change!


WIND OF CHANGE IS IN THE AIR!!!

[casualreader]

Kelso dude:

I never intended to imply that Miller is a racist.

Casually Clarifying

[Libyan Sibyl]

libyansybil said:

casualreader said:

In the Casual Camp we are concerned that the rain will suppress the Casual Vote.

So I urge all my minions to go out there and write-in Casual for Council.

If you feel I would make a better mayor then write me in there as well.

We need to take the borough back from the Machine and keep it away from the intolerance of Ted "Wannabe Councilman" Miller.

VOTE CASUAL TODAY

Now, I'd say that was a personal attack on Ted Miller by Casual Reader.

Casual Reader has been guilty of multiple rule violations for some time. He really needs to be addressed by the totality of his posts. In one month, he posted the following nonsense:

Here he calls Miller intolerant. This is not the first time, see "Casual's Campaign Platform" where he alleges it twice. He repeats this post verbatim several times in various threads.

He has also alleged that Ted Miller is a member of the communist party.

In his thread "Casual Corner # 3", Miller and Levine are "Scoundrels" who intentionally plot together to violate civil liberties. In the thread "unfair and unbalanced," Miller is again labeled a "scoundrel." Here, Miller is a charlatan: "Casual Reader for Council". Here, Miller is a huckster: "CENSORSHIP". In another post entitled "Freehold Borough Race 2007", he says "Levine and Miller: Evil Alliance"

In his Halloween thread, he goes overboard on Miller, Levine, the mayor and others: see "Halloween Costumes". Mr. Kelsey, here he thought it would be "cool" if you drank hemlock.

Lastly, he repeatedly has called the moderators fascists.

As you can tell, Casual Reader has engaged in a series of improper posts which, judged in their totality shoult be sufficient for administrative punishment as they violate Rule # 4:

4. We do discuss public figures and events. It is advisable that participants not engage in character assassination or personal attacks. Keep comments and opinion focused on actions and words of the subject.

[Libyan Sibyl]

casualreader said:

Kelso dude:

I never intended to imply that Miller is a racist.

Casually Clarifying

Administrators, there is no doubt that intolerance used by Casual Reader implies racist. There is no other explanation. How long must we suffer from his ramblings where he is allowed to malign every person on this board and off of it.

[richardkelsey]

CR has been banned previously, he has had some threads deleted, and I agree that each violation is viewed in its totality. (Not unlike the method for criminal sentencing and a thorough review of all the person's life and priors, if any)

In this instance -- however, I feel his post warranted a warning -- and not a ban.

I think the line between personal attack and political hyperbole is very thin in places -- and I prefer, with respect to political speech directed at political figures, to err on the side of caution.

I also try to view these posts in their totality as well.

In my judgment -- which is admittedly not perfect -- I think this post and poster required only a warning.

We do want to foster open debate here -- and sometimes that allows people to get right up on the line. We have permitted far worse before taking action -- and that was to ensure free, diverse, political opinion. Trust me, I am well aware of when Posters push the limits -- and I have been well-targeted myself.

It's a discretion call.

[fiberisgoodforyou]

I usually do not respond to CR posts, but i will admit to being Lactose Intolerant!

It makes my schpilinkta go gonecktigozonk

my secret is out CR,

libyansybil said:

casualreader said:

In the Casual Camp we are concerned that the rain will suppress the Casual Vote.

So I urge all my minions to go out there and write-in Casual for Council.

If you feel I would make a better mayor then write me in there as well.

We need to take the borough back from the Machine and keep it away from the intolerance of Ted "Wannabe Councilman" Miller.

VOTE CASUAL TODAY

Now, I'd say that was a personal attack on Ted Miller by Casual Reader.

[novillero]

libyansybil said:

stffgpr2003 said:

Wrong. The Mayor formally made the request to the County (where 287g belongs) and Chief Roth is following through with the County Police Chiefs to push for it.

We will continue to pursue this. The Feds have the last word on whether to approve all these requests, anyway. Morristown is still waiting. How long should it take to get a yes or no?

Marc

I think the point is that many think that 287 belongs here as well as at the county, state and federal levels. And I would rather apply now and wait, then apply later and wait even longer.

With that said, I hope the mayor and council are writing on a regular basis to get implentation at the county level. It makes absolutely no sense to me why this isn't the law of the land.

The quoted parts of this were deleted by the original poster, but the post survives in quoted form. According to Marc, the Mayor had made a formal request to the county for 287g and Chief Roth is pushing for it.

From what I can tell from Marc's post, particularly from "How long should it take to get a yes or no?" - it sure seems as if Marc was anxious to get 287 implemented.

Anyone have any word on it?

[admin]

novillero said:

libyansybil said:

I think the point is that many think that 287 belongs here as well as at the county, state and federal levels. And I would rather apply now and wait, then apply later and wait even longer.

With that said, I hope the mayor and council are writing on a regular basis to get implentation at the county level. It makes absolutely no sense to me why this isn't the law of the land.

The quoted parts of this were deleted by the original poster, but the post survives in quoted form. According to Marc, the Mayor had made a formal request to the county for 287g and Chief Roth is pushing for it.

From what I can tell from Marc's post, particularly from "How long should it take to get a yes or no?" - it sure seems as if Marc was anxious to get 287 implemented.

Anyone have any word on it?

I will tell you now, we will never see 287g in this town. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[novillero]

admin said:

novillero said:

The quoted parts of this were deleted by the original poster, but the post survives in quoted form. According to Marc, the Mayor had made a formal request to the county for 287g and Chief Roth is pushing for it.

From what I can tell from Marc's post, particularly from "How long should it take to get a yes or no?" - it sure seems as if Marc was anxious to get 287 implemented.

Anyone have any word on it?

I will tell you now, we will never see 287g in this town. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Brian, why not. Do you not think that "The Mayor formally made the request to the County..." or that "...Chief Roth is following through with the County Police Chiefs to push for it."?

It would seem to me that if the mayor made the request, the FB chief of police made a request and that the new sheriff is up for it, that we should expect to see the county and FB apply for the program.

Or is it that you doubt that the mayor and chief Roth did what Marc said they did? Can you elaborate on why you think we won't see it?


Here is why I think we will see some action.
(1) Sheriff Guadagno.
(2) Borough Council
(a) Marc Levine: I know Marc made a name for himself here in town based on the immigration issue and even had an immigration bumper sticker on his car.
(b) The rebel Geo also made some pre-appointment comments about getting serious about immigration.
(c) Kane has made numerous comments about overpopulation.
(d) Muster Zone closers: Kane, the mayor, Shutzer and DiBenedetto all voted to close the muster zone.
(e) The council has been uniform in noting the problems of illegal immigration to this town.
(f) council has set up other avenues to fight immigration (through neutral means, such as code enforcement).

We know that this has been their positions. I could go back and detail each position even further and add more items, but I think you get the gist.

Has their positions changed since the muster zone? I don't think so, Marc's comment was made in November. In september, there was even one guy turned over to ICE. Why don't you think that council won't pursue 287g?

[admin]

novillero said:

admin said:

I will tell you now, we will never see 287g in this town. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Brian, why not. Do you not think that "The Mayor formally made the request to the County..." or that "...Chief Roth is following through with the County Police Chiefs to push for it."?

It would seem to me that if the mayor made the request, the FB chief of police made a request and that the new sheriff is up for it, that we should expect to see the county and FB apply for the program.

Or is it that you doubt that the mayor and chief Roth did what Marc said they did? Can you elaborate on why you think we won't see it?


Here is why I think we will see some action.
(1) Sheriff Guadagno.
(2) Borough Council
(a) Marc Levine: I know Marc made a name for himself here in town based on the immigration issue and even had an immigration bumper sticker on his car.
(b) The rebel Geo also made some pre-appointment comments about getting serious about immigration.
(c) Kane has made numerous comments about overpopulation.
(d) Muster Zone closers: Kane, the mayor, Shutzer and DiBenedetto all voted to close the muster zone.
(e) The council has been uniform in noting the problems of illegal immigration to this town.
(f) council has set up other avenues to fight immigration (through neutral means, such as code enforcement).

We know that this has been their positions. I could go back and detail each position even further and add more items, but I think you get the gist.

Has their positions changed since the muster zone? I don't think so, Marc's comment was made in November. In september, there was even one guy turned over to ICE. Why don't you think that council won't pursue 287g?

Nov,

You really open up a great deal of questions with this thread. The reality is that I am only going to go so far in answering. That is for a number of reasons, the first being that some of these conversations will have to happen at the right time, at the right place , with the right people.

Do I think the governing bodies position has changed? not one bit. I know they all mean well and they all recognize that illegal immigration is the number one thing that has hurt our town. No person can argue other wise. But , that is just the problem. Their position has not changed. As a result, they are failing. The governing body has made it clear that they think they are right and as a result, they do not want to listen to any one else. That has caused the continued failure. This, of course is my opinion, one that I could back up with plenty more, but I will not do so here. I just want to summarize my over all belief.

Do I think we will see 287g? No. So much of what you cited was pre election tough talk. Nothing more. Where is the tough talk now? I am sure we will see it again if the governing body is to be challenged next November.

From the start, and based on what I have seen in papers, here, and in off line discussions, the governing body has looked at 287g the wrong way, for the wrong reasons. We should have that program, make no mistake, but one only needs to look at the past history of mistakes this governing body has made and the outcome on 287g is predictable. It will not happen and we will see nothing more than cheap excuses. Speaking of mistakes, the past year certainly saw plenty more coming from the governing body. They have not been encouraging on these issues at all. Ponder the above, Novillero, come to your own conclusions. Time will tell you that I am right on all of the above.

If I am wrong, I will eat my key board.

[fiberisgoodforyou]

www.thetimesnews.com/news/county_11059___article.html/johnson_counties.html

Sheriff wants immigration hub
Robert Boyer/Times-News
March 3, 2008 - 6:20PM
Alamance County is on its way top becoming one of five illegal immigration enforcement hubs in North Carolina.

During their meeting Monday, four of five commissioners (board Chairman Larry Sharpe was at a conference) gave their nod to Sheriff Terry Johnson’s request for hub status.

The U.S. Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement and the N.C. Sheriffs’ Association have chosen Alamance, Gaston, Cabarrus, Wake and Cumberland counties for the designation, Johnson said.

The designation, if approved in the other counties, means that counties surrounding the hubs will get computers to access a database that shows whether inmates are in the country legally, Johnson said. The feds have picked the sheriffs’ association “to develop the model program for the nation for the immigration process … and this is part of it,” Johnson said.
Here’s how the hub system works:

The surrounding counties won’t release inmates the database reports as illegal immigrants. After any state charges or convictions are resolved, the county jails turn over their illegal inmates to customs officials at hub jails for deportation processing. The sheriffs’ association will provide the computers to all the counties.

For the short-term, the designation means no changes at the Alamance County jail nor to its implementation of 287 (g), the federal program that gives local lawmen the power to act as U.S. immigration agents, Johnson said.

All five hub counties will have the 287 (g) program.

Wake and Cumberland counties are in the midst of 287 (g) training; Cabarrus and Gaston counties already have the program up and running, Johnson said.

The statewide database access will reduce drug trafficking and other area crimes by nabbing criminals who left Alamance County to avoid the 287 (g) program, Johnson said.

“We’re having a ton of dope brought in here from Rockingham County, Guilford County, and Randolph County” by illegal criminal immigrants, Johnson said. “We’ve seen a substantial reduction in our crime … here in Alamance County because of (the) 287 (g) program.”

The designation could eventually mean more money for Alamance County, thanks to additional reve-nue from housing immigration detainees from other counties, the sheriff added.

Alamance County will probably earn $5.5 million to $6 million this year for housing immigration detainees and those from the U.S. Marshals Service. The jail took in about $400,000 in bed rentals for February alone, Johnson said.

“How many more beds could we put out there” if the county accepted hub status, asked Commissioner Tim Sutton, a leading local proponent of tougher illegal immigration enforcement.

“I won’t make that decision. Y’all are going to have to make that decision,” Johnson said.
If the commissioners do decide to expand, Johnson recommended the county put inexpensive modular units that “could be set up in 60 to 90 days” at the county’s jail annex, a former state prison south of Interstate 85/40.

Commissioner Ann Vaughan questioned expanding jail operations while the county is in the midst of paying off the recent $12.25-million expansion to the county jail. The 240-bed expansion, which opened last April after about 16 months of delays and squabbles with the original contractor, John W. Daniel & Co., cost more than $1.4 million more the county’s initial $10.8 million budget for the project.

“Shouldn’t we pay it off before we go further into (debt)?” she asked.

The county is in good financial shape to handle another jail expansion, County Manager David Smith said.

Expanding the county jail will be necessary, Sutton said, “if the Lord doesn’t come back.”
In 50 years, the county probably will have 300,000 to 400,000 residents, Sutton said.

“You’re going to have to have a jail. You’re going to have to have brick and mortar. You’re going to have to have cells. If we are smart, doing what we can do right now, you can lay the groundwork to have that paid for when it’s needed,” Sutton said.

On a related note, the sheriff said “after a bargaining fight” with federal officials, the county will get nearly $6 more ($66.95 from the current $61) for each inmate it holds for the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

The federal agency also agreed to pay $40.50 per diem for county deputies who take prisoners to and from the immigration detention facilities Stewart County, Ga., and Charleston, S.C.

The county now allots a $30 a day for meals. Johnson said he plans to use the county allowance to pay overtime.

[fiberisgoodforyou]

Orr: NC should consider suing US government over immigrant costs
www.fayobserver.com/article_ap?id=119157
The Associated Press
RALEIGH, N.C.
ADVERTISEMENT

The state should consider suing the federal government for reimbursement for state-funded services provided to illegal immigrants, a Republican gubernatorial candidate said Tuesday.

Candidate Bob Orr said that if he's elected, he would pursue such a lawsuit if the federal government doesn't meet future requests from the state.

"If we don't do something like this, there is very little incentive on the part of the federal government to actually take constructive steps to solve this problem," Orr said at a news conference Tuesday.

Orr, a former state Supreme Court justice, said the federal government is obligated to help states with those costs. Congress, he said, has failed to live up to its constitutional responsibility to enforce immigration law or pass reforms that would resolve the status of illegal immigrants in North Carolina.

The state could seek reimbursements for teaching illegal immigrants in public schools, providing them indigent medical care and incarcerating adults who are convicted of felonies, said Orr, one of five Republican candidates for governor.

The amount could range from $300 million to $500 million annually, Orr said.

Other states, including California, Florida and New Jersey, tried unsuccessfully in the federal courts in the 1990s to win the reimbursement argument.

Orr's platform on illegal immigration also called on the state to continue to improve the process of issuing driver's licenses and identification cards. The state also should seek a federal grant to implement fully a program in which sheriff's departments can enforce federal immigration law, he said.

[fiberisgoodforyou]

Attorney General Anne Milgram's order -- "requires state and local officers to notify federal authorities when they have reason to believe a suspect is in the country illegally." Translation, NO 287g for anyone in NJ!

SHE IS NOT AUTHORIZING 287G. She killed Morristown Mayor Donald Cresitello's petition to the feds for 287g.

287g is not happening anywhere in NJ, and thats from the TOP DOWN!!!!

She did not say, she did not promote, and she clearly is not interested in 287G or she would have been CLEAR by saying that in concert with her order, she supports and will offer every one of her resources, and assist Every, All or Any law enforcement agency seeking assistance with instituting a 287G program!!!

She has not and will not, and can not.

Imagine the AG issuing a 287g directive, at the same time the Govs planning sanctuary program through his staked "Blue Ribbon Committee on Immigrants" . 287g is not gonna happen in anywhere NJ until we get passed Corzine's administration, and by that time we will have a pres that might kill the 287g programs, so .... sorry to disappoint with the cold cruel reality about living in NJ, but.... Next item on your agenda?

FIGFY

[richardkelsey]

fiberisgoodforyou said:

Orr: NC should consider suing US government over immigrant costs
www.fayobserver.com/article_ap?id=119157
The Associated Press
RALEIGH, N.C.
ADVERTISEMENT

The state should consider suing the federal government for reimbursement for state-funded services provided to illegal immigrants, a Republican gubernatorial candidate said Tuesday.

Candidate Bob Orr said that if he's elected, he would pursue such a lawsuit if the federal government doesn't meet future requests from the state.

"If we don't do something like this, there is very little incentive on the part of the federal government to actually take constructive steps to solve this problem," Orr said at a news conference Tuesday.

Orr, a former state Supreme Court justice, said the federal government is obligated to help states with those costs. Congress, he said, has failed to live up to its constitutional responsibility to enforce immigration law or pass reforms that would resolve the status of illegal immigrants in North Carolina.

The state could seek reimbursements for teaching illegal immigrants in public schools, providing them indigent medical care and incarcerating adults who are convicted of felonies, said Orr, one of five Republican candidates for governor.

The amount could range from $300 million to $500 million annually, Orr said.

Other states, including California, Florida and New Jersey, tried unsuccessfully in the federal courts in the 1990s to win the reimbursement argument.

Orr's platform on illegal immigration also called on the state to continue to improve the process of issuing driver's licenses and identification cards. The state also should seek a federal grant to implement fully a program in which sheriff's departments can enforce federal immigration law, he said.

Don't forget Texas -- which filed the suit under then Governor -- George Bush.

This typoe of action has lost in at least three federal Circuits -- which is bad. Not surprisingly -- the most offensive and absurd opinion came from the New Jersey case. (Whitman and Bush sued prior to Clinton's 96 re-election bid -- think politics were being played)

Anyway -- the Fourth Circuit is NOT any other Circuit. If it can't win there -- it can't win.

[admin]

fiberisgoodforyou said:

Attorney General Anne Milgram's order -- "requires state and local officers to notify federal authorities when they have reason to believe a suspect is in the country illegally." Translation, NO 287g for anyone in NJ!

SHE IS NOT AUTHORIZING 287G. She killed Morristown Mayor Donald Cresitello's petition to the feds for 287g.

287g is not happening anywhere in NJ, and thats from the TOP DOWN!!!!

She did not say, she did not promote, and she clearly is not interested in 287G or she would have been CLEAR by saying that in concert with her order, she supports and will offer every one of her resources, and assist Every, All or Any law enforcement agency seeking assistance with instituting a 287G program!!!

She has not and will not, and can not.

Imagine the AG issuing a 287g directive, at the same time the Govs planning sanctuary program through his staked "Blue Ribbon Committee on Immigrants" . 287g is not gonna happen in anywhere NJ until we get passed Corzine's administration, and by that time we will have a pres that might kill the 287g programs, so .... sorry to disappoint with the cold cruel reality about living in NJ, but.... Next item on your agenda?

FIGFY

It is good to see you missing the bigger pictuer too!

[fiberisgoodforyou]

admin said:

It is good to see you missing the bigger pictuer too!

Its Picture, but I understood...so please paint me a picture

[casualreader]

The 287G policy so often discussed here will not work in Freehold Borough.

It would pit half the borough against the other half. It would be a disaster.

All of you seem to want endless conflict for our misbegotten little borough.

If you want to see property values and your quality of life plummet then enact 287g.

Bad idea offered by many good people on this message board I love more than life itself.

I agree with Miller -- 287g will not happen in Freehold and that is a good thing.

Casually Worried that he Agrees with Miller

[adefonzo]

casualreader said:

The 287G policy so often discussed here will not work in Freehold Borough.

It would pit half the borough against the other half. It would be a disaster.

All of you seem to want endless conflict for our misbegotten little borough.

If you want to see property values and your quality of life plummet then enact 287g.

Bad idea offered by many good people on this message board I love more than life itself.

I agree with Miller -- 287g will not happen in Freehold and that is a good thing.

Casually Worried that he Agrees with Miller

in the 34 years of my life, I have been living in or had immediate family living in Freehold Boro. If there is one thing that has remained constant in all those years, it's that there are always factions of the boro that are squaring off against one another. And what makes you think it doesn't exist now even without 287g?

[admin]

casualreader said:

The 287G policy so often discussed here will not work in Freehold Borough.

It would pit half the borough against the other half. It would be a disaster.

All of you seem to want endless conflict for our misbegotten little borough.

If you want to see property values and your quality of life plummet then enact 287g.

Bad idea offered by many good people on this message board I love more than life itself.

I agree with Miller -- 287g will not happen in Freehold and that is a good thing.

Casually Worried that he Agrees with Miller

CR, that is a funny post. Your usual humor shines through in a most brilliant way!
Now, let's break down what you wrote on a serious note...

It would pit half the borough against the other half. It would be a disaster. As if we are so united now? If used right, 287g could unite the town. The advocates for the illegals could join the rest of humanity and show their support for a measure that makes life uncomfortable for the criminal element among the illegal community. Of course, there are two problems with that. Groups that support illegals also support the criminal elements and are often against deporting them either. Also, those same groups encourage division and resist any assimilation or integration of the illegals into the larger community. The advocates track record on the above is extensive. 287g will not do any more damage than what the advocates have already done.

All of you seem to want endless conflict for our misbegotten little borough. None are looking for conflict. We did not ask for it, but we are stuck with it. When the greater American population in this town expressed concerns, very real concerns, they were met with intolerance and hatred form the open borders crowd. That will not change. Let;s face it, illegal immigration has not been good for our town. Too many of our problems have come about from the negative impacts of illegal immigration. The illegal aliens and those who love them continue to do nothing to help.


If you want to see property values and your quality of life plummet then enact 287g.

287g will increase property values. It will send all the right messages. What will reduce our property values is the gangs who come out of the illegal alien community.

I agree with Miller -- 287g will not happen in Freehold and that is a good thing.

At least all three of us agree that it will never happen here in FB. And you are right, it is a good thing if you are an illegal alien who also engages in ( other) criminal conduct.