BrianSullivan
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Good ideas never cross burned bridges. Practice unity in our community
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Post by BrianSullivan on Jan 20, 2010 15:16:04 GMT -5
freehold.injersey.com/2010/01/20/debate-discussion-at-busy-borough-meeting/In the above thread I mentioned some council comments that Councilman Shnurr had said. Here is what I wrote: Next he mentioned a web posting that he found on a local site called Monmouth Musings. He referred to it as a right wing site. George took issue with commentary about a race that was at the track in commemoration of Martin Luther King. The race was all African American jockeys. Apparently Monmouth Musings had a few questions about that. George really took issue with a post by Republican Chair Ted Miller. George felt that what Ted had written as well as the initial article were very inappropriate. Monmouth musings is a local web site run by Art Gallagher. Here is what was found on Monmouth Musings: Freehold Raceway is paying tribute to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. today with a race featuring all African-American drivers, in the second annual MLK Jr. Memorial Pace, according to a piece at Freehold.InJersey.com.
How does this honor Dr. King?
King dreamt of:
...one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood.
and,
...that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
and,
...one day the state of Alabama, whose governor's lips are presently dripping with the words of interposition and nullification, will be transformed into a situation where little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls and walk together as sisters and brothers.
and,
When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"
How does having a segregated horse race honor King or his dream?Shnurr took issue with Millers comments especially, which were: Ted Miller on January 15th, 2010
A wagering event in the name of Doctor Kings ( ) seems out of place to be polite. Imagine telling a children, or a pastor, rabbi or priest that …, in honor of Doctor King, we will go wager $2.00 on number 5?
Art makes a cogent observation. What does gambling, wagering and horse racing have to do with honoring Doctor King?
Traditionally, communities around the nation offer a somber remembrance that dignify the memory of Dr. King…, hosting Religious Services. Ringing of Church bells, Open readings, poetry and community talks about Civil Right and equality, as well as inspired musical and dance performances reflecting meaningful, inspiring and profound reflection of a murdered American clergyman, activist and prominent leader who. by an act of congress, distinguish with national U.S holiday.Teds comments were actually found on this site: freehold.injersey.com/2010/01/15/would-martin-luther-king-jr-approve/#more-6057I am not going to get into the merits of the actual discussion. Quite frankly, I see points on both sides. Geo mentioned at the council meeting that the race was put together by African American Jockey's. I started this thread on its own because it can only go in one direction which is not a good one. Art and Ted both violated an unwritten golden rule- they brought up a race based topic on the Internet. It is usually not a smart move because of how volatile the various topics can be. I have been running this site for several years and rarely talk about race. It is one of a few topics that never goes well. There are too many variables and sets of eyes that have to be considered. Rarely do race based discussions remain honest and civil on Internet forums. And that brings me to the next reason why it is a bad move. Political opportunism. We saw that on this very site where a Councilman participant got slammed by political opportunists for worse things than what Art and Ted wrote. And those things by the councilman weren't that bad to begin with. Geo has slid into that arena as a political hit man with his comments the other night. Maybe we should call him George "the hit man' Shnurr? Why would Geo bring that up, web postings, at a council meeting? There is only one reason- to attack a person he does not like. I will go so far as to call it a phony baloney outrage on his part. He specifically targeted Ted Miller the "Freehold Republican chair." Why didn't Geo respond on the web site if he was so outraged? Why did he wait until a meeting where he can hide in his council seat with no rebuttal? That is cheap and not a good use of a council seat. At least me and Gallagher both invite people to respond. We do not hide from dissent. I know darn well that Geo will read this. Yes, I am calling him out. I am also going to give some very friendly advice that I have given others, including Miller. The people in this town do not like poison pills or bad conduct. They do not like polarizing individuals. The people in this town love this town and want leaders who present solutions. Unwarranted attacks do not fit in with that. The election is over. I doubt that very many people want to see a partisan continuation of that. Stick with taxi's Geo, you are doing well there. I will touch upon one more point that Geo made. He mentioned that in a week or so we will be celebrating Washington's birthday. He asked if any would question the sales at the mall. The resounding answer to that is yes. We see that everywhere. We often hear complaints about the commercialization of Christmas. With labor day, Memorial Day and Veterans Day, we often hear about the need to get away from BB-Q's and sales in order to attend ceremonies and events that commemorate the actual holiday. People have wondered and asked about making 9/11 a holiday. Many people argue against it because they do not want to see 9/11 sales at the local car dealer. It is too fresh in our minds for that degradation. But to somewhat back up Geo's point, we are not going to get rid of those BB-Q's and sales are we? Back on topic and simply put, Geo's comments were bad timing, bad place, and uncalled for. Do it in a place where the person you are attacking can at least respond. One last point that questions Geo's motivations. Could this attack on Miller be intentional in order to undermine volunteer efforts he has done? It has recently come to light that Miller has been working with the Court Street School and is sitting on that board. Hmmmmm??
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Post by lisas84 on Jan 20, 2010 15:19:26 GMT -5
Brian, you wrote: "The people in this town do not like poison pills or bad conduct. They do not like polarizing individuals."
Yes, I agree. Perfect sentiment.
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Post by admin on Jan 20, 2010 15:37:54 GMT -5
Brian, you wrote: "The people in this town do not like poison pills or bad conduct. They do not like polarizing individuals." Yes, I agree. Perfect sentiment. Yes, I give that advice all the time and believe it true. I have even had people get me in line when I have one of those days. Also, I have to correct one thing. Miller told me he is not on the board. I was under the wrong assumption. I just know he has been working closely with the Court Street School. Which is a lot better than being a poison pill!  |
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Post by richardkelsey on Jan 21, 2010 11:38:23 GMT -5
I think there is clearly some history here. Let's face it -- Geo was a regular poster here. He is obviously a reader of local blogs. That's great. Thomas Jefferson said "Information is the currency of democracy." I am sure he never envisioned the internet. (He he actually hated newspapers)
Anyway -- Miller is guilty of breaking the golden rule -- which is suggesting in any way that an MLK celebration is not appropriate. The truth, however, is that Miller appears to have said that he thought MLK deserved a better and more dignified honoring. That is a far cry from how his words are depicted.
It smells like a cheap political shot -- and let's face it, identifying Mr. Miller as the GOP chair and suggesting he made inappropriate comments about MLK is the democrat equivalent of Willie Horton Politics. It's race baiting and playing to fears.
I think -- I hope -- most Americans are past this type of tomfoolery.
Geo and Miller apparently locked horns over the debate debacle. The GOP won an improbably victory in the Borough -- and this was a way to fire back. I think Freehold can rise above this type of stuff on all sides.
In this outburst -- Freehold loses with any mention of race issues. Miller is no more tainted, as only those radicals who never will vote for the GOP would believe the attack, and Geo undermines his credibility with independents who -- upon taking the time to view the comments of Miller will be left wondering -- "where's the beef."
Freehold needs big time leadership -- not small time politics. That goes for all parties and all people. The dem machine in Freehold are not the first or only group or party to engage in the politics of small-mindedness. Maybe, if we are all lucky, they will be the last.
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Post by Mike Rosseel on Jan 21, 2010 12:37:38 GMT -5
Rich and Brian,
I believe you made some valid points but i disagree with you on this topic. First of all, Mr Shnurr, who as a elected offical, I believe is above you guys making nicknames up for. Lets show some respect to any person dem or gop who volunteers there time to serve at any elected position, name calling or nicknames is childish dont you think? Secondly, I believe Mr Shnurr message was a good one, this race was organized by all African American jockeys. These jockeys, who are obviously proud to be African American, wanted to celebrate Dr King at work in the only way they could , a race. Who are any of us to judge or mock the fact that professional jockeys wanted to celebrate Dr King. Who are we to suggest this is not the proper way of saluting this man? As an Italian American, if I decided to celebrate Columbus Day by having a spagetti dinner, who can judge my event and tell me it isnt proper? I believe (Censored) and monmouth musing has no place questioning or speaking ill of what any African American wants to do to pay tribute to one of there most historic leaders! I think thats the point Mr Shnurr was getting at, belittling the race, organized by African American jockeys, is not the place of any american other then an African-American. Mr Shnurr message was of respect to all races and not speaking ill of there events. I applaud George for his actions and believe others will and havealready!
With that being said, im eagerly awaiting Mr Kelsey rebuttal were he will call me nuts or say this is personal against (CENSORED). I think i was very good here Richie!
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Post by Bermuda98 on Jan 21, 2010 12:46:35 GMT -5
Having attended the meeting, and being a Borough voter, I believe Councilman's Schnurr's comments were completely inappropriate. Who knew, having attended a Council meeting, that I would witness a pathetic attempt at political bashing and direct ad hominem attack. I wish more residents/voters could have witnessed that.
I thought the Council wanted to be non-partisan when working on the Borough's business. I recall Councilman Schnurr's comments from the reorganization meeting on 3 January 2010:
5. I made a philosophical reference to a couple of issues to illustrate how silly the party structure is in small towns like ours. When all is said and done, there is no Republican way to accomplish snow removal and no Democratic way to do leaf and brush cleanup. There are just ideas, good ideas, and better ideas – and the people who think of these ideas and then turn those ideas into a plan of action.
Stick to Borough business.
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Post by Mike Rosseel on Jan 21, 2010 14:48:31 GMT -5
"I will touch upon one more point that Geo made. He mentioned that in a week or so we will be celebrating Washington's birthday. He asked if any would question the sales at the mall. The resounding answer to that is yes. We see that everywhere.
We often hear complaints about the commercialization of Christmas."
Brian with no disrespect to you, I'm not sure if your catholic or not but Christmas is a christian holiday based on religon, a little different from a patriotic holiday wouldnt you say?
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Post by Mike Rosseel on Jan 21, 2010 15:34:59 GMT -5
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Post by richardkelsey on Jan 21, 2010 15:54:00 GMT -5
Rich and Brian, I believe you made some valid points but i disagree with you on this topic. First of all, Mr Shnurr, who as a elected official, I believe is above you guys making nicknames up for. Lets show some respect to any person dem or GOP who volunteers there time to serve at any elected position, name calling or nicknames is childish dont you think? Secondly, I believe Mr Shnurr message was a good one, this race was organized by all African American jockeys. These jockeys, who are obviously proud to be African American, wanted to celebrate Dr King at work in the only way they could , a race. Who are any of us to judge or mock the fact that professional jockeys wanted to celebrate Dr King. Who are we to suggest this is not the proper way of saluting this man? As an Italian American, if I decided to celebrate Columbus Day by having a spagetti dinner, who can judge my event and tell me it isnt proper? I believe (Censored) and monmouth musing has no place questioning or speaking ill of what any African American wants to do to pay tribute to one of there most historic leaders! I think thats the point Mr Shnurr was getting at, belittling the race, organized by African American jockeys, is not the place of any american other then an African-American. Mr Shnurr message was of respect to all races and not speaking ill of there events. I applaud George for his actions and believe others will and havealready! With that being said, im eagerly awaiting Mr Kelsey rebuttal were he will call me nuts or say this is personal against (CENSORED). I think i was very good here Richie! I think you make fair points about this being a race organized by African American Jockeys. I think Mr. Miller's comments, however, were not designed to be racist or to rip down the efforts of the Jockey's. His post, as written, wonders if that's the best way to honor MLK. If the Borough had organized the race, and Mr. Miller had criticized it, I would see why Mr. Schnurr would feel compelled to address it. The fact that he tried to paint Mr. Miller as anti-MLK, or his comments as racist -- or that he singled him out as the head of the GOP, shows his motives to be politics. So while your argument Mikey isn't crazy -- it just isn't that convincing with respect to Mr. Schnurr's motives. I don't doubt for one second the motives of the organizing racers. I think it is fair to say, however, that when politicians use the public forum to attack people or other parties -- it is for political points. I will say this though. I disagree with the notion that no one can disagree with an African-American about how he or she proposes to honor Dr. King. I think that idea has tinges of racism in it that we as a society must resist. I think people should be able to discuss freely the merits of ideas, irrespective of the color of the skin of the person who proposes the idea. To me, that was exactly the message of Dr. King. Personally -- when I heard about the race, I thought it odd. However, if I knew it was organized by African-American jockeys who wanted to honor Dr. King in a way meaningful to them -- in a sport not often associated with African-Americans -- I probably would have thought -- "well, have at it." The point we are arguing here is not whether or not the Jockeys have good intentions. We are arguing over whether or not Mr. Miller's comments were inappropriate on their face -- and what reasons of intentions Mr. Schnurr has for his comments. Miller's comments seem plain on their face. I'll let other decide how they feel about the issue. P.S. No disrespect is meant to Councilman Schnurr by my reference to him as Geo. That was his chosen nickname and screen name here when he was a poster. I do normally prefer to refer to such people as Mr. unless I have a personal relationship with them. |
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Post by lisas84 on Jan 21, 2010 15:57:01 GMT -5
Mike, I clicked on the link you posted. I swear the horse in the top photo is smiling!
And Richard, I hope you read my earlier post about your book.
OK. Back to regularly scheduled programming...
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Post by Mike Rosseel on Jan 21, 2010 16:31:17 GMT -5
"I will say this though. I disagree with the notion that no one can disagree with an African-American about how he or she proposes to honor Dr. King. I think that idea has tinges of racism in it that we as a society must resist. I think people should be able to discuss freely the merits of ideas, irrespective of the color of the skin of the person who proposes the idea. To me, that was exactly the message of Dr. King."
I kinda agree but if an Irish Brothers Group of America was having a St Patricks Day Party with green beer and shots specials, can I tell them they are wrong for celebrating that way? St Patrick did not become a saint based on drinking? Do I have a right to call there celebration, to be polite, out of place? I believe the answer is no. Irish Americans have the right to celebrate there patron saint anyway they feel does them justice, can I as an Italian American stop them, probaly not. Would me speaking out against them possibly seem as wrong or racist, i do believe yes! These African Americans jockeys, including Jim King Solomon, should not be put down by (CENSORED) because he doesnt agree, thats being small minded and has "tinges" of racism. We all can and should celebrate Dr King, telling African Americans there proposed way isnt right or up to standards of other religous groups touches racism.
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Post by Mike Rosseel on Jan 21, 2010 16:39:27 GMT -5
FYI this is the 10th annual race at this track |
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BrianSullivan
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Good ideas never cross burned bridges. Practice unity in our community
Posts: 1,041
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Post by BrianSullivan on Jan 21, 2010 17:07:26 GMT -5
The dialog here has been terrific. That is why I opened this up as a separate topic. I figured it would muddle up another thread. I will add and restate a couple thoughts.
First, I did not open up this thread to discuss the actual race. If I wanted to do so, I would have commented on the site where it was found. In the case of George, Art, and ted, they are all individuals very much entitled to their views. I would never take that away from them or degrade them for their actual views. What any of these guys think is not the main issue here for me. After reader their various comments and hearing George, I see points from all of them.
I am going to back track and put this another way of what my point is. I have been going to council meetings fro several years. Often I write up what was said. Readers can go through this site and see what I wrote. Most of the time the council is very upbeat, community oriented and discussing issues during council comments.
In all the council meetings I have been to, I have never heard anything like Councilman Shnurr's words the other night. Hearing that was a first for me.
His comments came out of the blue and were a verbal hit on a person he has disdain for, a political opponent. I have never seen a council person randomly attack someone like that from the council seat.
Again, I am not knocking Geo for his views on the subject, he is very entitled to disagree with whom he wants. What gets me is that he used his council seat as a place to get on his high horse and act as if he is the final authority. He did so in a place here he gets the last word with no dialog.
To address a concern Mike brought up in this thread about nick names. Geo is a nick name we use for Councilman Shnurr. I see Rich brought that up. Geo is his former screen name here.
Mike if you are concerned about the "hit man Shnurr title", I will happily make an offer. I used the title because I believed it appropriate due to the fact that Geo made a verbal hit on someone.
We have three mods here. Lisa is our most liberal and gets along with all the governing body. I will leave the decision in her hands. It is her choice and only her choice to censor me. If she chooses to do so, I will respect and adhere to it. She knows I respect and trust her to make good decisions.
What say you Lisa, will you change the name of the thread? your call.
One final note to all readers.
I see we have a few more people than usual logging in. I hope it is not just the heated topics that bring people here. There are many very positive and community related threads on this site. Please take the time to read through them. The Main Street, History Section, and family friendly pages all have great stuff. More importantly, feel free to contribute!
Oh, one last thing.... Bermuda98, it is good to hear from you on the site!
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Post by Mike Rosseel on Jan 21, 2010 17:28:32 GMT -5
Brian, first of all, your are 100%, you do a wonderful job reporting on things such as the above said, main street, history sections etc. For that my hats off to you!
Secondly, i wasnt refering to the "GEO" comments I was refering to the "hitman" part of this, think its alittle out of line.
Third, the race is the topic because thats what Miller and monmouth muse commented on. I disagree with you saying Shnurr was on his high horse, as an elected offical, he has the right to vocalize his thoughts at that point of the meeting. I understand you, rich "the body" (in the good spirt of nicknames) and bermuda disagree with Shnurr, i respect that and feel you have that right. As I have the right to believe (CENSORED) was to be polite, out of line! I have reached out to some African Americans and soon we will see what they feel.
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Post by lisas84 on Jan 21, 2010 18:03:33 GMT -5
Hey, Brian! Thank you so very much for your faith in me that I earned. Good question.
I do want to be consistent. Remember when I chastised a certain casual poster about his horrid nicknames for Ted and the others? Unacceptable.
If "hit man" has a negative connotation, then it should be changed -- as it may have been posted in angry rebuke. Simple, just change it to "Schnurr's Council Commentary" or something like that.
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Post by lisas84 on Jan 21, 2010 18:06:54 GMT -5
I do want to add that there is indeed a very fine line between editing for site guideline consistency -- and censorship. This isn't a perfect endeavor.
What I wrote above, Brian, is merely a suggestion in response to your post asking what I thought. And I tried to be as fair minded as possible. So -- thanks.
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BrianSullivan
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Good ideas never cross burned bridges. Practice unity in our community
Posts: 1,041
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Post by BrianSullivan on Jan 22, 2010 16:55:21 GMT -5
Last night I ran into Councilman Schnurr. He obviously read this thread and had only one complaint- I keep misspelling his name. He even said he did not have a problem with the "hit man" part. Quite honestly, I believe him and I did not think he would. Geo is a tough bird and has no problem playing hard ball. If anything, I figured he would get a kick out of the title. I will make clear on something. I do not write things with the intent to insult. If he was insulted, I would put up an apology. If anyone feels insulted, I would attempt to make amends. I would still disagree with him, but I would not insult him. I will, however, get his name right in the future.  |
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Post by Mike Rosseel on Jan 22, 2010 17:13:30 GMT -5
Last night I ran into Councilman Schnurr. He obviously read this thread and had only one complaint- I keep misspelling his name. He even said he did not have a problem with the "hit man" part. Quite honestly, I believe him and I did not think he would. Geo is a tough bird and has no problem playing hard ball. If anything, I figured he would get a kick out of the title. I will make clear on something. I do not write things with the intent to insult. If he was insulted, I would put up an apology. If anyone feels insulted, I would attempt to make amends. I would still disagree with him, but I would not insult him. I will, however, get his name right in the future. Thats all great and i too have been miss spelling his name, however, it seemed as if you had left the changing of the thread up too lisa and it still hasn't been changed |
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BrianSullivan
Full Member
Good ideas never cross burned bridges. Practice unity in our community
Posts: 1,041
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Post by BrianSullivan on Jan 22, 2010 17:21:02 GMT -5
Last night I ran into Councilman Schnurr. He obviously read this thread and had only one complaint- I keep misspelling his name. He even said he did not have a problem with the "hit man" part. Quite honestly, I believe him and I did not think he would. Geo is a tough bird and has no problem playing hard ball. If anything, I figured he would get a kick out of the title. I will make clear on something. I do not write things with the intent to insult. If he was insulted, I would put up an apology. If anyone feels insulted, I would attempt to make amends. I would still disagree with him, but I would not insult him. I will, however, get his name right in the future. Thats all great and i too have been miss spelling his name, however, it seemed as if you had left the changing of the thread up too lisa and it still hasn't been changed I did change the spelling in my post titles. AS far as changing the actual title of the thread, I do leave that up to Lisa to determine if it is right to do in order to continue and preserve site integrity. The mods on this site are given several liberties to do as they wish. A group effort is always better. If either Rich or Lisa feels the need to correct me, that door is always open. I have said many times, I am not perfect and will take a piece of humble pie when it is deserved. In the case of this thread, there is a fair question of standards that need to be applied even and fair. Those standards apply to me above all. Getting off topic, readers make sure and check back next week. There are some really nice things planned for next week. |
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Post by Mike Rosseel on Jan 22, 2010 17:38:50 GMT -5
Hey, Brian! Thank you so very much for your faith in me that I earned. Good question. I do want to be consistent. Remember when I chastised a certain casual poster about his horrid nicknames for Ted and the others? Unacceptable. If "hit man" has a negative connotation, then it should be changed -- as it may have been posted in angry rebuke. Simple, just change it to "Schnurr's Council Commentary" or something like that. Brian, isnt that what this indicates? |
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BrianSullivan
Full Member
Good ideas never cross burned bridges. Practice unity in our community
Posts: 1,041
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Post by BrianSullivan on Feb 1, 2010 6:08:22 GMT -5
Ahhh..... ya gotta love a small town with a big Internet. Someone emailed me some info about rumors circulating that I need to clear up. First, if I post on any site it is under my own name. On a site I do not post on, I saw I was accused of looking to get Councilman Schnurr removed because of his comments. That is false.
I am not aware of any credible info that this idea is even being considered by anyone. If it is, I consider it foolish and wrong headed. As much as I criticized Geo for his words, I would actually back him up and openly state that he should not be going anywhere for his comments. A councilman employing his free speech is not grounds for removal.
Free speech is precious. Any person who would look to penalize the councilman in that extreme a manner is actually doing our town a lot more harm than good.
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Post by Mike Rosseel on Feb 1, 2010 7:09:48 GMT -5
Ahhh..... ya gotta love a small town with a big Internet. Someone emailed me some info about rumors circulating that I need to clear up. First, if I post on any site it is under my own name. On a site I do not post on, I saw I was accused of looking to get Councilman Schnurr removed because of his comments. That is false. I am not aware of any credible info that this idea is even being considered by anyone. If it is, I consider it foolish and wrong headed. As much as I criticized Geo for his words, I would actually back him up and openly state that he should not be going anywhere for his comments. A councilman employing his free speech is not grounds for removal. Free speech is precious. Any person who would look to penalize the councilman in that extreme a manner is actually doing our town a lot more harm than good. Brian, Why the sudden change of heart? Previous post you indicated that he was wrong for doing this? Why the change? |
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Post by Mike Rosseel on Feb 1, 2010 7:14:15 GMT -5
Ahhh..... ya gotta love a small town with a big Internet. Someone emailed me some info about rumors circulating that I need to clear up. First, if I post on any site it is under my own name. On a site I do not post on, I saw I was accused of looking to get Councilman Schnurr removed because of his comments. That is false. I am not aware of any credible info that this idea is even being considered by anyone. If it is, I consider it foolish and wrong headed. As much as I criticized Geo for his words, I would actually back him up and openly state that he should not be going anywhere for his comments. A councilman employing his free speech is not grounds for removal. Free speech is precious. Any person who would look to penalize the councilman in that extreme a manner is actually doing our town a lot more harm than good. The more I think about this, the more it seems like maybe you guys are planning something against George, maybe at tonights meeting? I dont know, just have a feeling? If someting is planned, its would be sad to see a site "dedicated" to freehold and its people involved, no? |
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BrianSullivan
Full Member
Good ideas never cross burned bridges. Practice unity in our community
Posts: 1,041
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Post by BrianSullivan on Feb 1, 2010 7:19:29 GMT -5
Ahhh..... ya gotta love a small town with a big Internet. Someone emailed me some info about rumors circulating that I need to clear up. First, if I post on any site it is under my own name. On a site I do not post on, I saw I was accused of looking to get Councilman Schnurr removed because of his comments. That is false. I am not aware of any credible info that this idea is even being considered by anyone. If it is, I consider it foolish and wrong headed. As much as I criticized Geo for his words, I would actually back him up and openly state that he should not be going anywhere for his comments. A councilman employing his free speech is not grounds for removal. Free speech is precious. Any person who would look to penalize the councilman in that extreme a manner is actually doing our town a lot more harm than good. Brian, Why the sudden change of heart? Previous post you indicated that he was wrong for doing this? Why the change? It's no change of heart, Mike. I still think what Geo did was weird and very out of the ordinary. Again, I have never seen a councilman in our town do what he did. I stand by my previous disagreement with him. However, that does not mean that I think he should be penalized in any way. I said freedom of speech is precious, With that comes the fact that we will hear things we do not like. In protecting and respecting freedom of speech it means that we have to also back up those who we disagree with, not just the ones we agree with. To penalize people we disagree with is a dangerous road that only fascists travel. I say let the councilman speak his mind-he should. At the end of the day, if people really have a problem with it, he will pay for it at the voting booth. If anybody was foolish enough to ask for his resignation, it would be bad for our town and a battle for all the wrong reasons. Geo does not deserve that and neither does our town. |
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BrianSullivan
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Good ideas never cross burned bridges. Practice unity in our community
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Post by BrianSullivan on Feb 1, 2010 7:23:22 GMT -5
Ahhh..... ya gotta love a small town with a big Internet. Someone emailed me some info about rumors circulating that I need to clear up. First, if I post on any site it is under my own name. On a site I do not post on, I saw I was accused of looking to get Councilman Schnurr removed because of his comments. That is false. I am not aware of any credible info that this idea is even being considered by anyone. If it is, I consider it foolish and wrong headed. As much as I criticized Geo for his words, I would actually back him up and openly state that he should not be going anywhere for his comments. A councilman employing his free speech is not grounds for removal. Free speech is precious. Any person who would look to penalize the councilman in that extreme a manner is actually doing our town a lot more harm than good. The more I think about this, the more it seems like maybe you guys are planning something against George, maybe at tonights meeting? I dont know, just have a feeling? If someting is planned, its would be sad to see a site "dedicated" to freehold and its people involved, no? Mike, the entire point of my post was to go on record as being against any foolish move. I have no credible info that something will happen tonight. I will not even be there. If anything does happen, I am now on record as being on George's side, even though I disagreed with his original commentary. |
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Post by Mike Rosseel on Feb 1, 2010 7:44:50 GMT -5
"As much as I criticized Geo for his words, I would actually back him up and openly state that he should not be going anywhere for his comments. A councilman employing his free speech is not grounds for removal."
Im confused, if you don't know of anything with George then why are you posting about his removal, im confused, I never heard of him being removed....What are you talking about here? Who wants him removed?
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Post by admin on Feb 1, 2010 7:52:12 GMT -5
"As much as I criticized Geo for his words, I would actually back him up and openly state that he should not be going anywhere for his comments. A councilman employing his free speech is not grounds for removal." Im confused, if you don't know of anything with George then why are you posting about his removal, im confused, I never heard of him being removed....What are you talking about here? Who wants him removed? Mike go back and reread my post, the answer is right there. I wrote: First, if I post on any site it is under my own name. On a site I do not post on, I saw I was accused of looking to get Councilman Schnurr removed because of his comments. That is false.I will not mention the sites name because I do not want to give it audience here. I started this discussion simply to squash a rumor tha someone else is spreading. Does it make sense now? |
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Post by Mike Rosseel on Feb 1, 2010 9:27:49 GMT -5
Brian another issue for you as an admin, how come you asked lisa to decide if the name of this tread should be changed, she said yes and you never did it? thats kinda a slap in the face to lisa no?
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Post by Mike Rosseel on Feb 1, 2010 12:39:03 GMT -5
"As much as I criticized Geo for his words, I would actually back him up and openly state that he should not be going anywhere for his comments. A councilman employing his free speech is not grounds for removal." Im confused, if you don't know of anything with George then why are you posting about his removal, im confused, I never heard of him being removed....What are you talking about here? Who wants him removed? Mike go back and reread my post, the answer is right there. I wrote: First, if I post on any site it is under my own name. On a site I do not post on, I saw I was accused of looking to get Councilman Schnurr removed because of his comments. That is false.I will not mention the sites name because I do not want to give it audience here. I started this discussion simply to squash a rumor tha someone else is spreading. Does it make sense now? not really....word on the street and yes there is no fact behind this, is that Miller plans to come to the meeting tonight and ask George to resign...I'm playing devils advocate here but you and Ted talk, I find it hard to believe he didnt share this plan with you. But since you have a new stand on George, if Miller asks him to resign is that the right thing to do? Is Miller going over board? Not PC answers Brian, tell us how you feel!! with all due respect to miller, he is barking up the wrong tree. What george said was hardly innappropriate, it is his right to speak out on news/events in Freehold. He has nothing to gain, just defending a man, MLK, which no one should speak ill of. Furthermore, alot of us feel ted stepped out of line, tellign African -Americans how to celebrate Dr Kings legacy is wrong! |
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BrianSullivan
Full Member
Good ideas never cross burned bridges. Practice unity in our community
Posts: 1,041
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Post by BrianSullivan on Feb 1, 2010 12:53:31 GMT -5
Mike go back and reread my post, the answer is right there. I wrote: First, if I post on any site it is under my own name. On a site I do not post on, I saw I was accused of looking to get Councilman Schnurr removed because of his comments. That is false.I will not mention the sites name because I do not want to give it audience here. I started this discussion simply to squash a rumor tha someone else is spreading. Does it make sense now? not really....word on the street and yes there is no fact bethind this, is that Miller plans to come to the meeting tonight and ask George to resign...I'm playing devils advocate here but you and Ted talk, I find it hard to believe he didnt share this plan with you. But since you have a new stand on George, if Miller asks him to resign is that the right thing to do? Is Miller going over board? Not PC answers Brian, tell us how you feel!! with all due respect to miller, he is barking up the wrong tree. What george said was hardly innappropriate, it is his right to speak out on news/events in Freehold. He has nothing to gain, just defending a man, MLK, which no one should speak ill of. Furthermore, alot of us feel ted stepped out of line, tellign African -Americans how to celebrate Dr Kings legacy is wrong! Couple of things, Mike. The change in title is up to Lisa. I am good with the title, if she feels different, she is welcome to censor me. I put that invite there before and it still stands. Are you trying to say that you have info stating that Ted is going to the meeting and going to ask Geo to resign? If so, you have more info than I do. I am completely unaware of anything factual that backs that up. Again, go back to the intent of this discussion. I am squashing rumor that I am involved with anything like that. All that I am aware of is what was on another web site that has no credibility. You have it right here. If anything like that happens, I do not condone it. If Ted does try something like that, it will bite him square in the rear end. AS far as the actual horse race, I am not turning this thread into that debate. I did not take a side and that is not the point. I do not have a new stand on George. |
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) seems out of place to be polite. Imagine telling a children, or a pastor, rabbi or priest that …, in honor of Doctor King, we will go wager $2.00 on number 5?
