WHY are you against houses being a lawyer's office

You are very entitled to your opinion and a very welcome addition to this site, anywherebuthere.

Here is a link to another thread. Some appeared to be on your side.

freeholdvoice.proboards46.com/index.cgi?board=planningboardtwo&action=display&thread=3981

I am sure we some will comment again.

Thank you Brian for posting the old thread. I read it, and see there are people on both sides of the fence on this.

Richard - thank you for posting as well. I agree with you and you conveyed it better than I did.

I agree with you about that lawyer "shooting herself in the foot" with the sexist thing....I guess she was just so angry at that point, she started grasping for straws, I don't know. I don't think it had anything to do with her being a female, of course.

What is true though is that they did in fact in the past allow some of the houses to be turned into law offices, so why not now? Look at the giant one on the corner, he got in not too long ago.

Anyway I think people are pushing the new office space in that new building... and that has something to do with it. But as it was said on the other thread..not everyone wants to work out of a cold office space over there. I wouldn't.

I just wish people would take off their rose colored glasses about trying to "preserve the family oriented neighborhood" here. Thing is yes, in theory that would be great. But no family wants to pay the prices of today to live here in one of the nice houses in the boro. A lawyer would. And they would keep it well maintained as also said before in the other thread.

I am stuck...though it is a bad market everywhere, we all know the more expensive houses here in the boro have always been a hard sell. I was one of the stupid ones that tried to make it work, and it didn't.

Until prices drop rapidly, which they will and are..(my house is now worth about 100k less than I paid just a few years ago..)......no family is buying my house, or any of the nice houses that I know of.

Except for the people who paid 700k for the old court house. Though they are very lovely, super nice people.....they do not have children, so they don't experience the boro from that point of view.

Thanks for your posts, you are both well spoken and seem fair in your views.

I just don't think this town can be "saved" as if you look back geez, at least til the 60's I don't know what was going on before that...but hey it's never been an idyllic area. it's always been rife with problems and I just don't see that ever changing...immigrants or not. But that's another story.

I hate to bring up the old beaten down thing I am sure you have heard a million times.....but there is a reason why Bruce was born to run from here. And I don't think it's changed for the better since then, that's for sure.

If anyone on that board that grants the variances reads this....please, think harder about this. There are people living in these houses here that can't sell them. A lawyer buying it seemed to be my only hope, and now there is no hope of that, is there? No.

I am not the house that Veronica Davis tried to buy,,,,,but I did have a lawyer entertaining the idea of buying my house when I was listed, but as I said, he changed his mind when it came down to it. Now I am stuck. No "family" made an offer.

Any family who saw my house was not interested due to the high traffic area, and because of the court house. "It's a lovely house but......" yeah I heard a lot of that.

Sorry for the rambling, I am just frustrated.

Thanks for listening.

here are my 2 cents, and please take this in the spirit of conversation and that you wanted opinions. Nothing is meant personally to you or anyone else:

(1) I would say that a person that bought in that area would have been aware of the zoning, and if they weren't, then they didn't do their homework. They certainly had to be aware of the traffic when they bought.

(2) If a person cannot afford their house, then that is really a private matter for that person. It is not the rest of the community's duty (or the Planning Board's duty) to ensure that everyone can sell their house at a price the seller wants. If a person wants to sell a house, the simplest way is to lower the price - if that cannot be done, then one choice is to stay.

(3) The Court Street neighborhood seems to be a tight knit group. They will be on top of overcrowding. Furthermore, it is a huge assumption that the property owner that rents a house out will necessarily overcrowd it. That is a code enforcement issue. Violators take their chances of high fines, and damage to their property. In a neighborhood like Court Street, which has some very nice homes, one would think that a landlord might be somewhat prudent with their investment.

(4) Not everything revolves aroung the Courthouse. The court staff rarely have breakfast or dine here. They are a lunch crowd (and there is a cafteria in the courthouse). Also, there are no real retail stores here in town. So I question that the town revolves around the courthouse. Certainly, lawyers revolve around it.

(5) "traffic is so bad" that your kids "cannot play out front." Again, that goes to the person buying the house and that they would have been aware of that at the time of purchase. Many houses on Court and Monument streets have ample backyards. There is also a nice size park - right in front of the courthouse. There is one down the street, Veteran's Park. There is also a few blocks down Court on Ave. C (I think that is the name). Where else can you live with so many free parks in such close proximity? Perhaps it was a trade-off for some. As well as the walking distance to town. Every person has different criteria. But I would guess that the traffic was apparent when you bought the house.

(6) just because there are law offices in the area, does not mean that the entire area has to succumb. The neighborhood has put their foot down. The Planning Board listened and agreed. They want to preserve their investments too - and their investment was zoned residential. The more these houses get turned into investment properties, the more it hurts the remaining people who live there. Their investment in their home suffers.

(7) there is a huge new office building in town - empty. Several places in Main Street have space to let. I am sure the places on Broad have some room too. The applicant for the Court Street house, had an office next door. So she cannot complain that she doesn't have access to a facility close to the courthouse. In fact, the other places I mentioned are also relatively close to the courthouse.

(8) The lawyers on Monument and Schenck converted a multi-family dwelling into an office/multi-dwelling unit. Big difference. He did not take away a one-family house from the neighborhood. Further, this house is isolated from the Court Street houses, the houses at the base on Monument and those further up Monument.

(9) as to the problems that - in your opinion - relate back to the 60's, again, I am guessing that you bought the house since then. Stay, and help make things better.

(10) your house value dropped 100,000 from a few years ago. Welcome to the club, everyone's has. Many have dropped more. That problem is way beyond Freehold.

Thank you for posting numbers one through ten, Novillero....excellent points......

Oh yea, I certainly can appreciate what he is feeling. I bought a home around the same time as Anywhere, so I know exactly what he's feeling.

Thank you Lisas84. You are very kind and I think you "get it".

I don't hate Freehold Boro, and it is not my intent to be here just to bash it to death...though it does have many issues I am not happy about. I moved here knowing most of the problems...but it is worse living it than just hearing about it. I'll get into that more later.

My screen name is in reference to NJ as a whole lol. (it's from that movie/book with Susan Sarandon if you've seen it...not that she left NJ, but I don't know just seems appropriate for me right now...that unrest and trying to escape thing.) ....It's just not sustainable here as we all know, unless you got in before the boom. But that's another story all together I guess.

Will reply more in depth as I get through the other posts.

Just wanted to start by thanking Lisas84 for her kindness.

"refreshingly well mannered"? Lisa, what are you implying about the rest of us here???

If you like the beach, skiing, gambling, hiking/camping, good theater, some of the finest restaurants around and great shopping then NJ is not a bad place to be. Oh and good luck finding a decent slice of pizza if you leave.

Sure taxes are high and the state has its share of warts but I love NJ, even without utilizing NYC very much either.

Hi novillero, thanks for posting. I did post to see both sides of the issue, of course it is fair to hear the other side out. I will reply to your points with my opinions.

(1) I would say that a person that bought in that area would have been aware of the zoning, and if they weren't, then they didn't do their homework. They certainly had to be aware of the traffic when they bought.

Well....perhaps I didn't do all of my homework. About the traffic anyway. But here is a bit of my story if you are interested.

We moved here with the intent of staying 2-3 years to be near family. My husband was raised here. I thought it would be a good opportunity for my children to be near their grandparents for a couple of years. (Husband has a lot of family here in the boro).... We knew the problems there were, but did not plan on staying once my daughter got past the 5th grade, that was our plan. Then, the market fell apart much faster than I anticipated. I knew it would happen, but 100k+ in less than 3 years? No, I didn't anticipate that. And no it's not just a boro issue, but an issue many states are facing, of course I realize that. So...my good intentions backfired on me.

And as for the traffic...well, this might sound stupid but.....we always visited on the weekend. Traffic just isn't as bad on weekends here, so I didn't realize just how bad it was. And most people are off at work when the bad traffic is going on, so maybe they don't see it. I just didn't realize it was as bad as it is. So no, I guess I didn't do my homework on that one. But even my husband, who grew up here didn't see as much traffic growing up as there is now.

(2) If a person cannot afford their house, then that is really a private matter for that person. It is not the rest of the community's duty (or the Planning Board's duty) to ensure that everyone can sell their house at a price the seller wants. If a person wants to sell a house, the simplest way is to lower the price - if that cannot be done, then one choice is to stay.You are right, it is a private matter and not the rest of the community's duty to ensure the price of a house is low enough to sell. I never implied that it was. But couple the out of control housing market with a bad financial decision (buying a house that was too expensive that tanked in no time)....and you have a bad situation on your hands.

Some people cannot afford to lower the price and eat 100k. I can't. Do I want the community to pay the difference? lol, no. I did my own damage. However, by not allowing these houses to become law offices, you are narrowing my ability to sell to who ever would be willing to buy the house. Unless you all want to by it to preserve it for the community, which of course you don't, and I do not expect you to...then let us sell to whomever will buy!!!

And due to my bad choice, I can't "stick it out". My point is, had I been able to sell it to a lawyer when I could have still saved face, when prices dropped 50k and not 100k like the present....I'd be okay right now. But now things are beyond my control, and yes I do believe that is one of the things that prevented my house from being sold.

(3) The Court Street neighborhood seems to be a tight knit group. They will be on top of overcrowding. Furthermore, it is a huge assumption that the property owner that rents a house out will necessarily overcrowd it. That is a code enforcement issue. Violators take their chances of high fines, and damage to their property. In a neighborhood like Court Street, which has some very nice homes, one would think that a landlord might be somewhat prudent with their investment.You don't have to worry about that happening yet.....because prices are still too high, even with an average drop of 25% in price to even sell these things as rentals. So yes, they will be able to "be on top of" overcrowding. But I am curious to see what happens when this market hits bottom. When these houses dip back into a profitable rental margin, we'll see what happens. Maybe the "tight knit community" will prevent 40 people from living in one house. I don't know. But that is neither here nor there right now really.

(4) Not everything revolves aroung the Courthouse. The court staff rarely have breakfast or dine here. They are a lunch crowd (and there is a cafteria in the courthouse). Also, there are no real retail stores here in town. So I question that the town revolves around the courthouse. Certainly, lawyers revolve around it.
My point that "everything revloves around the courthouse" was really in regard to the traffic. Maybe the traffic isn't just due to the courthouse, but either way people use this area as a through way to get where ever they are going during the day.

And really, it's a shame to hear people aren't dining in the restaurants here and just use the cafeteria. Further proof though that people just kind of drive through here, and that certainly isn't helping the town's economy or Main Street. If there isn't enough stores or interest in eating the restaurants etc we have, then it further backs my point this town will not ever get out of the situation it's in. Just one of the many reasons why.

(5) "traffic is so bad" that your kids "cannot play out front." Again, that goes to the person buying the house and that they would have been aware of that at the time of purchase. Many houses on Court and Monument streets have ample backyards. There is also a nice size park - right in front of the courthouse. There is one down the street, Veteran's Park. There is also a few blocks down Court on Ave. C (I think that is the name). Where else can you live with so many free parks in such close proximity? Perhaps it was a trade-off for some. As well as the walking distance to town. Every person has different criteria. But I would guess that the traffic was apparent when you bought the house.

Who wants to have to use a park and worry about their kids getting hit by a speeding car? More proof middle/upper middle class"families" will not move here. Yes, we have a backyard. But when I am out doing something in the front, I don't want to have to worry my little one is going to get mowed down by a car if he gets too close to the street.

I explained my naivety about the traffic earlier. But this further drives in my point though, those who are in fact aware of the traffic don't want to move here with little kids. I made a mistake with this one. They also don't want to pay the current prices, even with the prices falling..it's not enough to justify it. Sure, when these houses sold for 120k you were willing to put up with the bad points. But now? Forget it. Two years of listing, no family wanted it. I was stupid, these buyers are not.

So exhorbitant pricing (thanks to the economy, not just the Boro of course, the reputation of having bad overcrowded, underfunded schools,(though I do have some positive things to say about FLC, note I said some.....) a bad reputation, an overcrowding illegal immigrant issue...oh so many reasons why people don't want to buy here, we all know it.

This also backs up my point, why not let a lawyer have it then? No family wants it, unless they get it for a steal. And we all know there are many more issues here than just the courthouse and the traffic that would stop a family from living here.

I will finish replying but have to go for now this is taking forever

anywhere,

Looks like you are going to stick it out here in Freehold, so I hope you all make the best of it and enjoy what you do have, which is a gorgeous house.

If your child is in 5th grade, I think the toughest part is over. In a short three years, she will be attending one of the state's finest public high schools.

I presume you still have a lot of family close by. You have a beautiful house. You have happy kids. You have a good neighborhood that looks out for each other. You should try to be thankful for all that and work to improve the things that you are not happy about.

Call the police and ask them to put up one of those speed meter signs, and to increase the number of speeding tickets they give. That will slow down the traffic.

Good luck with everything!